End of church age?

I heard the message on a Christian radio (Family Radio), saying that we have come to the end of church age. The Bible teacher teaches that God had stopped using local churches. Does anybody know about this message? What's the biblical truth?

I agree that many churches in the U.S. are going further and further away from the Bible, boasting being "friendly' and "relevant", but is there an end of church age?

Egads! ...

What is this, the "catching away" isn't happening soon enough to take the Church (His Bride) out of our responsibility to proclaim His saving Gospel of Grace, now someone is declaring us defunct before our time? ... Heaven help us! :-?

To me it's the old adage: It ain't over till it's over! ... And only God
knows when He's coming to catch us all away to Himself as Paul describes in 1 Thes. 4 ... Until such a time as this we His Church (Bride) individually and collectively are not freed from our Great Commision!

Yeah granted we're messed up in a lot of ways, but he said He's coming back for a Bride without spot or wrinkle so i don't think we'll be getting off that easy ... Christ said in Rev.3:19 - As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent ...

i'm by no means an authority on the matter but i think we still got some work to be done on us, and to do, before the ending of the Church Age ...

Perhaps I didn't say it clearly. I think that church was referred to local congregation, not the elected Christians. OK, below are quoted from one of their tracts. Hope some lights be shed on this matter.

"The Bible tells us that for almost 2000 years after Jesus died on the cross those who believe in Jesus, if possible, were to be members of a church. But now we learn from the Bible that God is no longer saving people through the ministry of the churches. The Church Age has come to an end. Fact is God commands in His Lawbook, the Bible, that the true believers are to leave their church. This is because God's righteous Judgment is upon all local congregations as God is preparing the world for Judgment Day which is almost here."

I once was very active at a forum in which several respected members believed this doctrine. Their only "fellowship" was talking on a chat room; you can imagine the eventual spiritual declination that started to progress.

The only scripture this Family Radio movement has is the "Come out of her my people" from the book of revelation. Twisted of course, bearing no actual description of current local congregations (if you read the whole chapter).

I'm not learned enough to combat this doctrine, but to me it only appears to be a rehash of the so often trodden path of puffed up leaders taking advantage of peoples past hurts, and using the most shadowed book in the bible(the book of revelation) to give people the fear if they don't jump on the wagon their doomed.

By the way, since when do pastors, teachers, deacons, etc (offices of the church) "expire", or "pass away"? Are they spiritual gifts that they should expire?

I've known some people that teach this doctrine. They pretty much just live isolated Christian lives. They repeat the same ol' diatribe day in and day out. Generally the folks that hold this doctrine are some very radical dispensationalists of the Bullinger variety. In essence, they are heretics, and should be shunned by the body.

I think that the danger with the "Family Radio" group is that everything seems so wonderful. They have wonderful godly music on their station, and reading of the Scriptures, and they address issues that most people will not, such as dead churches.
Brethren there are a multitude of people who love Jesus, but have nearly been destroyed in their faith because of "church", to these folks, the Family Radio teaching agrees with what they have experienced, and it resonates with them because they are afraid to ever enter into a "church" again.
With that said, Harold Camping who started Family Radio has some very flawed beliefs. He has sat dates as to when the Lord will return, and his interpretation of Scripture is a little off. Yet he will say that no one gets into Heaven without the Blood of Christ, and repentance from sin. He is a Calvinist(I have nothing against him for this), but to call them heretics, I don't know? for I know that Pastor Chuck Smith has set dates for the Lord's return in the past in some of his books, but no one on here would call him or Calvary Chapel heretical would they?
I believe the Church is in for a much needed realignment, and the majority of people in the buildings may not be in it.

So Family Life is that ministry by Harold Camping?...they broadcast on Shortwave Radio...a communication medium filled with self-styled conspiratorial kooks long before there was the internet. ;-)

This is from their website...

"...God's judgment is upon the house of God, which are the local congregations, we are now compelled to teach the biblical truth that God has shifted the final task of the world evangelism to individual Christians who are outside of the local congregations. In obedience to these biblical teachings Family Radio, which is completely outside of any church institution, and which is supported and administered by individual believers, does teach that today, as we are heading for the end of the world's existence, we should not be a part of the local church."

I certainly agree with everyone here that this idea can't be seriously considered...no Christian is an island to himself or herself. The "New Man" that we are part of is not a bunch of individual "New Men". Yet I reluctantly admit that part of me does emphathize with this 'come out' aching. Is every organization and institution that identifies themselves as a church, in fact, an authentic church?

Most of us long for fellowship with other believers on not only a weekly, but also a daily basis, studying the teachings of the apostles, worshipping, breaking bread together, and going out into the world together...we long for a lifestyle pattern resembling the New Testament body.

What if you can't find this pattern inside your local 'organizational' church?

Blessings,

MC

(Edit: I realize this may not even be a fair topic for this thread, which is about a specific doctrine and not a general frustration... it's just something I've been thinking about that this dicussion prompted me on...)

Camping and the like are "heretics" in the sense they cause factions and divisions in the body of Christ. This is the true Biblical notion of a "heretic." Such men cannot inherit the kingdom of God. And by going around and saying that Christians need to abandon the church would be doing exactly that.

I would say that any "group" that becomes an exclusive us vs. them, we're right they are wrong, is running into dangerous territory.
Unfortunately it seems that just about every group has that mentality, thus the overwhelming desire to "come out".
While I do not endorse Mr. Camping, nor do I denounce him, I will state this question -
Why do we think that God somehow agrees with our church system? What mark on gatherings is there of His approval?
It must be more than numbers, music etc., even good preaching. What proof do we have that God approves of the Western Church?
P.S. I am not asking this in a judging fashion, I am curious to see some responses, cause for the life of me I am really trying to figure out how far we can stray from the original, but have the nerve to call ourselves the same.

[Edit] Just wanted to say that I know there are some things we cannot bend on, and I am not speaking of these.

I am a bit torn over Family Radio because I do enjoy much of the programming they have, godly music, scripture reading, and my kids and I enjoy the family reading circle where they read Christian biographies each evening. But this teaching of Mr. Camping I cannot agree with, as others here have noted, it has no biblical basis that I can see.

There are so many who are disillusioned with the "church", and rightly so in some cases but, in every movement of God there are hangers-on, Jesus called them tares among the wheat. Jesus said that they should be allowed to grow together until the harvest. Also, Paul said that wood, hay, and stubble will be burned at the judgment seat, but until then it appears that they have a part to play in the perfecting of the Church.

I think it's important to remember that with all of their grumblings and unbelief, Israel in the wilderness of Sinai was still counted by God as His people and He was willing to forgive them and lead them as far as they would go. I think maybe we give up too soon.

Most of us long for fellowship with other believers on not only a weekly, but also a daily basis, studying the teachings of the apostles, worshipping, breaking bread together, and going out into the world together...we long for a lifestyle pattern resembling the New Testament body. What if you can't find this pattern inside your local 'organizational' church?

I can relate to this longing for New Testament fellowship. This is a question that I have struggled with for quite some time now. I've done the church shopping thing and considered home-church but each time I feel the Spirit is leading me just to grow where he has planted me. I have prayed much over this and right now the only answer is to "wait". I can tell you that I have learned much about my own selfish pride, impatience, and unbelief through this process. It has been a time of refining. Yet still the longing remains...

In Christ,

Ron

Thanks much Ron.

MC

Regarding this "ending" I just recently left a church b/c of a lot of false doctrine and "New Revelations". They numerous times were discussing the end of a church age and a movement into new times...where God was going to move is "New" ways to everyone who would be open to "His" changes. I would say be wary and maybe even run. All this "New Revelation" talk and "New Movements" is pretty cultish and new ageish. Pray and God Bless

To me though it seems that there is an ever existing condemnation for those who would strike out on their own, and leave the "system".
We have been so brain washed to think that our spiritual life is based on what building we attend that we forget we are accepted in Christ alone. Many use this frailty to abuse people and they will say things like, "if you're not in church you're out of God's will"
Yes, but what if I sense more of His approval being in a cave somewhere? What if by meeting in a cafe or house with one or two other brethren we have real fellowship uninhibited by man"s denominations, and doctrines?
Maybe not all of the "church" is dead, but what is remaining is fading quickly.
We must remember that one of the things that the Roman Catholic system enforced prior to the Reformation was necessary church attendance. If you did not show up, God was against you, if you did not agree with the priest God was against you and you were a heretic. Now fast forward all these years, and we're right back in the same mentality, and we're told "sit down, shut up, and pay up!" And it's even hinted that building attendance brings God's blessing yet God does not exist in temples made of hands!
Personally I am so tired of seeeing people abused, and confused because God is calling them, or moving them, and then men use fear and intimidation to control them. We don't have fleshly priests any longer, we have a High Priest who overrides any authority of man.
Now I am not talking about spiritual anarchy, but instead fellowship based upon mutual love for each person, not fellowship based upon what another man can gain by us being in attendance, but rather what does Christ gain?
One last point for now. The word church does not mean building. We use it as such, "how was church?", "where do you go to church?".
But the word ekklesia means "called out ones", so it refers to people. Now let's re-write those questions with that in mind. "How was you(or you all)?", "where do you go to you?", "are you adding on to you?"
Do you see the point I am trying to make? The system has been so ingrained into us that we equate it to our salvation, when we are justified by faith alone.
Much to think about. :-D

I relate to the longing to true followship too, and I have the same feeling toward Family Radio as InThe Light.

Now I'm sort of between churches (chruch shopping?), as I haven't found a church home after leaving the previous one a year ago. During this period, I strongly feel that without followship I cannot grow in Christ. InTheLighst, your sharing is very encouraging to me. I have much more praying and waiting to do.

Praise Jesus!!

Where does anyone get the idea that "church" as we see it and do it is Biblical?

It is not and has not been since the early 4th century. The reformation reformed very little. We still worship on a model set up by the Romans.

The Church of Jesus Christ is one of fellowship not attendance. It is not supposed to be a time of looking at the back of one anothers heads while one guy takes center stage.

It is supposed to be a place where the saints are equiped to do the works of the Kingdom (discipled). A place whare we commune with one another and our Head (Jesus).

Read 1 Cor 14:26-40 Does this sound like the box you or i go to? In Acts the church met daily and God added to their numbers those who were being saved daily. Does that sound like your box or my box? They carried the Gospel OUT into the streets. Do we?

The Holy Ghost inside of me tells me that at best most of what we call "church" has become irrelevant to our master and much is a stench and abomination. i am convinced that judgment has begun in the House of God.

And by the way i never heard of the guy your talking about or listened to his radio programs. What i am apeaking is coming from His spirit in me.

Call me a heretic or a crackpot it doesn't matter. Just watch.

A member of His Body

Hisservant rich

Matthew 4:17

Yet I reluctantly admit that part of me does emphathize with this 'come out' aching. Is every organization and institution that identifies themselves as a church, in fact, an authentic church?

Same here. The premise is off by a long shot as it is being promoted but I am in agreement with a lot of this expression from you all here.

Most of us long for fellowship with other believers on not only a weekly, but also a daily basis, studying the teachings of the apostles, worshipping, breaking bread together, and going out into the world together...we long for a lifestyle pattern resembling the New Testament body.

Which I believe keeps many of us going by doing at least that which is possible by coming here. It's highly inadequate and limited, but at the least it seems to feed that part of the spirit that these elements can give it. Sharing our thoughts and experience, studying and being studied by that which we allow to be exposed to each other...

To me though it seems that there is an ever existing condemnation for those who would strike out on their own, and leave the "system".
We have been so brain washed to think that our spiritual life is based on what building we attend that we forget we are accepted in Christ alone. Many use this frailty to abuse people and they will say things like, "if you're not in church you're out of God's will"
Yes, but what if I sense more of His approval being in a cave somewhere? What if by meeting in a cafe or house with one or two other brethren we have real fellowship uninhibited by man"s denominations, and doctrines?

I can relate to this longing for New Testament fellowship. This is a question that I have struggled with for quite some time now. I've done the church shopping thing and considered home-church but each time I feel the Spirit is leading me just to grow where he has planted me. I have prayed much over this and right now the only answer is to "wait". I can tell you that I have learned much about my own selfish pride, impatience, and unbelief through this process. It has been a time of refining. Yet still the longing remains...

There is a great part of me that is just in opposition to ... pretense and falsehood, not necessarily the overt, but the lack of just sheer honesty. The weirdness of 'prophetic' utterance that is often predominant in the churches that would appeal to more spiritual matters. The hard and requirement based letter of the law sans mercy, the overt opposite that is all to predominant ... ease and [i]easy[/i].

Not perfection, perfectly honest, that kind of [i]peculiar[/i].

Not new or different or other ...
"Old" ... yes! Old as in apostolic, old as in [i]original[/i], original intention.

There is any number of those here I would flee to in a heartbeat to sit under ... Where is that substance of T. Austin Sparks, that mantle?

Ah, but the question comes or rather the word; [i]Preference[/i]?

KingJimmy wrote:
Camping and the like are "heretics" in the sense they cause factions and divisions in the body of Christ. This is the true Biblical notion of a "heretic." Such men cannot inherit the kingdom of God. And by going around and saying that Christians need to abandon the church would be doing exactly that.

The only way we could possibly abandon the Church is abandon each other because "we" are the Church, after all it's just a building until we arrive, then it becomes the Church. :-)