Beth-lehem

[b][color=000000] And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.[/color][/b]

[b][color=000000]But he answered and said,[/color][/b][b][color=660033] It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God[/color][/b]

Brothers and sisters, sometimes I just long to talk with others about the word of God. I want the word of God to dwell in my heart richly and to share it with others. Well, if that fits you at all, then maybe we can meet together here, at [i]Beth-lehem[/i], the [i]House of Bread[/i], and sit together for a while and talk about the word of God.

I suppose I should go a little further in what I mean by [i]talk about the word of God[/i].

I do not mean to encourage us to talk about [u]doctrines[/u]. It has been my experience that a handfull of doctrines are discussed amongst believers over and over again. I don't intend to do that.

My brothers and sisters, there are thousands upon thousands of rich, beautifull words, the very words of God, that we can share together, that we can feast our souls upon, that we can dig deep into and draw out life and meaning. I want to do that. Do you?

I'll go just a bit further about the intent here. I love to be blessed by the word of God, by seeing something which I had not seen before, or by dwelling upon and taking in some truth which it contains. But more than that I would love to share these blessings with others, with each other even and encourage our hearts in faith, and the worship of God. I hope that others will join me.

If anyone has a word or verse to begin with please do not be shy. And let us remember the words of our Lord Jesus

[b][color=660033]...the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.[/color][/b]

Dear ChrisJD that sounds wonderful. I thought I might start at the beginning. The first revelation God gave me about His word 30 years ago.

Gen 13:9 [Is] not the whole land before thee? separate thyself, I pray thee, from me: if [thou
wilt take] the left hand, then I will go to the right; or if [thou depart] to the right hand, then I will go to the left.

Gen 13:10 And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it [was] well watered every where, before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, [even] as the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar.

Gen 13:11 Then Lot chose him all the plain of Jordan; and Lot journeyed east: and they separated themselves the one from the other.

Gen 13:12 Abram dwelled in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelled in the cities of the plain, and pitched [his] tent toward Sodom.

Gen 13:13 But the men of Sodom [were] wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.

Gen 13:14 ¶ And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:

Gen 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

Gen 13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, [then] shall thy seed also be numbered.

Gen 13:17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.

God showed me that there are two choices that lay in the path presented to us that are represented in Lot and Abram. Lot lifted up his eyes and beheld and chose based on what he saw.

Abram left his choice with God and was told by God to lift up his eyes, as the result everything became his through trusting his choices to God.

This particular revelation has allowed me to walk at peace no matter what direction my road has turned knowing that the steps of a righteous man are ordered of the Lord. I don't have to fear the future or figure it out.

I'll go just a bit further about the intent here. I love to be blessed by the word of God, by seeing something which I had not seen before, or by dwelling upon and taking in some truth which it contains. But more than that I would love to share these blessings with others, with each other even and encourage our hearts in faith, and the worship of God. I hope that others will join me.

Oh please do. That this could become our greatest controversy.

Dear Roniya and Goldminer,

I should have went to sleep a while ago...but I think I can see where both these mesh...

God showed me that there are two choices that lay in the path presented to us that are represented in Lot and Abram.

and...

'is the Word of God having free course in my life? Am I obeying what I read?

Here...

[b][color=000000]O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.[/color][/b]

[b][color=000000]Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me.[/color][/b]

Will look forward to the fellowship in His word :-)

Chris

I do not mean to encourage us to talk about doctrines...

My brothers and sisters, there are thousands upon thousands of rich, beautifull words, the very words of God, that we can share together, that we can feast our souls upon, that we can dig deep into and draw out life and meaning. I want to do that. Do you?

I'll go just a bit further about the intent here. I love to be blessed by the word of God, by seeing something which I had not seen before, or by dwelling upon and taking in some truth which it contains.

Teaching and testimony are not alternatives.

Goodmorning all.

Only have a few minutes but wanted to draw together two things sister Roniya mentioned

But what struck me about this whole passage was how their disobedience to God's commands polluted His Name.

Here is the verse that the Lord gave me a couple days ago to meditate on: "Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, [b]and be glorified[/b], even as it is with you." 2 Thess. 3:1

The Apostle Paul said ... [i]we have received [u]grace and apostleship[/u], for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name[/i]

Noticing the contrast between being [i]polluted[/i] and [b]glorified[/b].

Here's something that I noticed some years ago which really stood out to me. It is one of the similiarities in scripture between the life of King David, and that of the Messiah, the Son of David, the King of Kings.

In 1 Samuel, at the beginning of the 22nd chapter we read

[b][color=000000] David therefore departed thence, and escaped to the cave Adullam: and when his brethren and all his father's house heard it, they went down thither to him.[/color][/b]

[b][color=000000] And every one that was in distress, and every one that was in debt, and every one that was discontented, gathered themselves unto him; and he became a captain over them: and there were with him about four hundred men.[/color][/b]

I think, doesn't that sound alot like us who have followed after the Lord Jesus? we who have been in distress over the troubles of life, we who have been in debt of wealth and in debt to God, and we who have found no lasting satisfaction in the the things of this world. All we have been gathered unto the chief Shepherd.

Our Lord Jesus said,

[b][color=660033] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[/color][/b]

Teaching and testimony are not alternatives.

Hi Ron, left pondering that last night. Could you elaborate a bit? Certainly agree and if I am guessing correctly Chris may have been alluding in a general sense to some things that have been up in recent days by way of [i]doctrine[/i].

At least that would be my particular ... issue of late. That is to say also that I am finding quite a troubling aspect amongst some saints that is related; Theology.

In a nut shell, [i]Thy Theology Killeth[/i] is something I am trying to give an expression to, the lines of distinction and the proverbial problem always, a [i]biblical definition[/i] lacking. Many things, but the crux is one of bitterness underneath, strife and contention, incredible opposites, out takes, presumptions, insinuations, division ... pride.

This is really out of place here, I apologize. Perhaps this effort of Chris was meant to just be an alternative too just so much ... wrangling.

What spoke to me about this passage was 'is the Word of God having free course in my life? Am I obeying what I read? Or just skipping the passages I don't care for? Is God's Word having it's way in my heart and life?'

I have been meditating on this very same thought concerning obedience to God's Word. The account of Saul's failure concerning the Amalekites has brought this into focus for me. In particular...
And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of the LORD, and have gone the way which the LORD sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites. But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto the LORD thy God in Gilgal. And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
(1Sa 15:20-23)

These are sobering words. Saul was convinced that he had obeyed the commandment of God but, partial obedience is disobedience. God have mercy on me and grant me a heart of obedience.

In Christ,

Ron

Hi brother Mike. I hope it will be all right to continue the digression just briefly.

Chris may have been alluding in a general sense to some things that have been up in recent days by way of [i]doctrine[/i].

Brother, I think more than anything, in my mind, it comes to the point of [i]emphasis[/i], approach, motive. It appears like so much of our discussion of the word of God amongst ourselves is born out of disputes or questions over theology and doctrine rather than our theology and doctrine being enhanced, refined, by our discussions of the word of God.

Perhaps I could give an example.

Earlier, we qouted Jeremiah 10:23. I see theology in that verse, but supporting that theology was not my intent for sharing it. Know what I mean?

Dear brother Ron,

These are sobering words. Saul was convinced that he had obeyed the commandment of God but, partial obedience is disobedience. God have mercy on me and grant me a heart of obedience.

When I read this a second time just now I thought of a passage of scripture which mentioned following God [i]fully[/i]. I looked for it and found it was in refrence to Caleb, where it was said of him...

[i]...he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully[/i] Numbers 14:23-24

May it be as you prayed for us both.

If God could create a heart of obedience in man, He would not have needed Jesus, Grace, Faith. We would not need the Holy Spirit in us forever and would not need to be born again. All He would have to do is give a law and everybody would be obedient to it.

Well be all know that we cannot keep the Law, so how are we to escape our condemnation under the Law. How much law would have to be written to take the place of Grace? The sermon on the mount was an addition to the Law already given. It increased the law to perfection and would have to be increased to attain the Holiness of God. Flesh in sin cannot attain justification or righteousness that will please God and bring His creation, man, as children that He wants in His house. That is son's of God.

Romans 7:24-25 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Who's mind do we have? Who's mind are we to renew our's to and by Who? Who's life are we living by His Faith? Who is birthed in us, and makes us a new creation? Who is the Word of God?

John 5:46-47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Jesus gave Moses the Word, The word of God is of Christ and about Christ.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The Word of God is Christ and all that God has sent Him to say. John 1:13-14 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Mind; 1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind [and] one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Renewing the mind; Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Who renews our mind, by what? John 14:19-20 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

John 14:25-26 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Justification;
And on and on and on it goes. Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Life and Faith;
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption;
1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Even our Glory; and whose work in us;

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily.

What are we to do? Colossians 3:1-4 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

This is our doctrine, it is Christ in all that we do. Nothing else matters, If Christ is all and in all, how can we argue over what we are to do when it comes to our life. We are in Christ, and Christ is in us. This is our life and nature and by all we do the Holy Spirit is here to declare this truth, That, "Jesus Christ is the Son of God and this is the Rock I will build My Church upon. The Body of Christ, that is us brother and sisters. In Christ we can do all things, without Christ we can do nothing.

In Christ: Phillip

I wonder if the language of devotion and the utterances of our deepest heart cries are often...

[b]...more expressive than exacting[/b]

[b]...more passionate than precise[/b]

Take for instance the [b][i]63rd Psalm[/b][/i] as it is translated in Eugene H. Peterson's, [b]The Message[/b]

God - you're my God!
I can't get enough of you!
I've worked up such hunger and thirst for God,
traveling across dry and weary deserts.

So here I am in the place of worship, eyes open,
drinking in your strength and glory.
In your generous love I am really living at last!
My lips brim praises like fountains.
I bless you every time I take a breath;
My arms wave like banners of praise to you.

I eat my fill of prime rib and gravy;
I smack my lips. It's time to shout praises!
If I'm sleepless at midnight,
I spend the hours in grateful reflection.
Becuase you've always stood up for me,
I'm free to run and play.
I hold on to you for dear life,
and you hold me steady as a post.

Those who are out to get me are marked for doom,
marked for death, bound for hell.
They'll die violent deaths;
jackals will tear them limb from limb.
But the king is glad in God;
his true friends spread the joy,
While small-minded gossips
are gagged for good.

"[i]I wonder if the language of devotion and the utterances of our deepest heart cries are often...

...[b]more expressive than exacting

...more passionate than precise[/b][/i]"

Tremendous statement brother, just flat out wonderful.

Full well recognize that even these are subject to even greater clarity. Perhaps this would be as much towards Ron's earlier mention of teaching and testimony being of the same weave, inseparable. How remarkable that a better expression and more precise passion are still possible.

One of Ron's old signatures had the statement;

"[i]Theology is meant to be sung[/i]"

Think there is just a world of meaning contained in that.

Perhaps the paradoxical affinity for some of the 'mystics' is applicable to this in that their [i]expression[/i] often grips at those deepest levels while at the same time the guardedness of a well heeded warning, the Berean-like spiritual 'mandate' if you will, always drawing back to that [i]which is written[/i].

Have been botching expressions for over 3 years around here and still marvel at just how much there is to grapple with and put forth. One of the great joy's of doing this here is to have others come along and give expression better than we ourselves can, feeding off and adding, clarifying and correcting ... Coming from that manner of motivation is markedly different than wielding a merciless law book of hardened doctrine and theological construct even if correct and accurate and full of truth. It seems quite evident enough by way of example;

[i]And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.[/i] 1Co 13:2

Or

[i]But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.[/i] Mat 12:7

Would give my soul in exchange for expression of that what I keep seeing over and over again, a dividing mindset of 'either\\or' of those things [u]not[/u] divisible. The bane of Christianity in our day seems to me to be that we very often just refuse to [i]think[/i] and think hard and think well. And on top of all that is a often a dis-allowance of being adjusted. Correction is a marvelous thing! It's desirable and welcoming, the music of theology is pleasant, the [i]letter kills[/i]...

What is the witness of the Spirit but that of an agreement already settled?

Thanks brother, hope I didn't expense that too much by this little dirge of inward upheaval.

Here is perhaps a better expression from something lingering on the desktop for some days now ...

[i] "The heathen do not judge of the Christian's doctrines from the doctrine, but from his actions and life" [CHRYSOSTOM]. Men will write, fight, and even die for their religion; but how few live for it! Translate, "That they may adorn the doctrine of our Saviour God," that is, God the Father, the originating author of salvation (compare Note, see on 1Ti 1:1). God deigns to have His Gospel-doctrine adorned even by slaves, who are regarded by the world as no better than beasts of burden. "Though the service be rendered to an earthly master, the honor redounds to God, as the servant's goodwill flows from the fear of God" [THEOPHYLACT]. Even slaves, low as is their status, should not think the influence of their example a matter of no consequence to religion: how much more those in a high position. His love in being "our Saviour" is the strongest ground for our adorning His doctrine by our lives. This is the force of "For" in Tit 2:11.[/i]

Commentary by A. R. FAUSSET

Titus 2:1-15 (King James Version)

(Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,)

Brother Mike

Full well recognize that even these are subject to even greater clarity... How remarkable that a better expression and more precise passion are still possible.

Thanks to God for this reminder here, convicting and challenging. Immediately brought to mind the little I know and have heard about the old hymns, how that they are at once beautifully expressive and theologically true. All seeming to come to the point of this reminder here...

while at the same time the guardedness of a well heeded warning, the Berean-like spiritual 'mandate' if you will, always drawing back to that which is written.

So perhaps part of our difficulty is this: we do not want to give place to, or make provision for, falsehood; yet we do not want to be so tight in our sifting of the words and thoughts of others, or in our own, that we fail to grasp the significance or intention of what has been said, or that our own words become dead and dead, even death? to others.

On that latter point...

Coming from that manner of motivation is markedly different than wielding a merciless law book of hardened doctrine and theological construct even if correct and accurate and full of truth.

And this seems to speak to this also

[b][color=000000]There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword: but the tongue of the wise is health.[/color][/b]

Continuing on in Brother Mike's second post I saw something which drew back to a word sister Roniya shared at first, which we have been discussing.

First, brother Mike shared from the commentary by A. R. FAUSSET

Men will write, fight, and even die for their religion; but how few live for it! Translate, "That they may adorn the doctrine of our Saviour God," that is, God the Father, the originating author of salvation (compare Note, see on 1Ti 1:1). God deigns to have His Gospel-doctrine adorned even by slaves, who are regarded by the world as no better than beasts of burden.

It is this ...[i]That they may [b]adorn[/b] the [u]doctrine[/u] of our Saviour God[/i] which particularly stands out to me. It seems to coincide so much in the Apostles
petition for prayer that the word of God may be [i][b]glorified[/i][/b].

But how was it, is it, glorified? Is it not that, having heard it, it changed those who had recieved its gift?

[b][color=000000] Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?[/color][/b]

[b][color=000000] And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day;[/color][/b]

Was not the word of God going throughout the whole world, burning up the forests of idolatry, setting ablaze the hearts and minds of men once cold with cruelty and hatred but now transformed with a zeal and passion and love for God and man?

But how was it, is it, [u]glorified[/u]?

A very large and pertinent question brother.

Is it?

The often manhandling that is done in defense of the Lord, the attempts of our own meddling and weilding, the wonder if the interest is towards education spiritualy or a peculiar one-up-manship.

Would rather not drag down towards these things though, moving past that;

So perhaps part of our difficulty is this: we do not want to give place to, or make provision for, falsehood; yet we do not want to be so tight in our sifting of the words and thoughts of others, or in our own, [b]that we fail to grasp the significance or intention of what has been said[/b], or that our own words become dead and dead, even death? to others.

Yes, 'jumping to conclussions'. Well said.