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sermonindex Jan 8, 2007

[b][u]Welcome to SermonIndex[/u][/b]

You are about to enter a vast resource, a continuing expansion of thought from a variety of past saints, many who have since passed through the trial of death and have been preserved and resurrected here to speak once again to us all.

[b][u]The Forum[/u][/b]

Since it's inception, the forum here has been many things. A great fellowship, a 'church' at heart while in it's unorthodox form and fashion often resembling both a battleground and a hospital. This can be both edifying as well as divisive. We hope to address a few of the misconceptions and concerns at the outset so that everyone will be on the same level footing as to what is acceptable and that which is not.

[u][b]What it is not[/b][/u]

It is not a 'chat room'.
It is not a place to bring an agenda regardless of intentions.
It is not a place for promotion of ones self, website or wares.
It is not 'denominational' while gleaning from many.
It is neither legalistic nor 'anything goes'.
It is not a place for politics, politicians, policy's nor particular support thereof. More on this below.*

[b][u]What it is[/u][/b]

It is first and foremost a privilege.
It is a gathering of saints now throughout the world.
And that alone may be the most important factor to keep in mind at all times.
It is a place to share, discuss, listen, think and grow into all things in Jesus Christ.
It is bible based.
It is for the most part "KJV" preferred, but not "only".
It is apostolic in it's desire to return to Old Paths;

Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

It is in aim and undergirding Revival.
A Revival of God's thought.
Of others and lastly, ourselves.
It may be said that this is the mindset, better the heart set that resides back of intentions and motivations to all that is expressed on SermonIndex.

It is a longing for, praying for, a Revival of the same substance that is expressed through the many resources available here.

It is this foundation and focus while fostering a great freedom of discussion within some practical guidelines.


[u][b]What you can expect[/b][/u]

To be challenged unto growth in Christ
To be misunderstood.
To misunderstand others.
To be asked questions.
To be in the midst of some very experienced saints, not a handful who have walked with the Lord for many, many years.
To find like hearted Brethren as well as 'likemidnded'.
You will likely at some point be offended.
You will be blessed.
You may weep tears of joy and tears of sorrow.
You may have your theology turned inside out and upside down.
You may have yourself exposed in way's you never thought possible by your own words and thoughts as well as by those who care for your souls.
To be prayed for.

[b][u]What we expect[/u][/b]

Conduct, consideration and charity.

As illustrative, picture yourself entering a home for the first time. You are a guest. You are polite. You wipe the mud off your shoes before entering. You make an introduction. You carry yourself with respect to your host.

Hopefully, you get the idea here. We have found that hosting a forum has all kinds of inherent difficulties.

Communicating in this manner with so many different cultures, upbringings, education and lack thereof. To add even more weight is the place anyone of us may be in this walk as disciples of the Lord, we all were spiritual 'babes' in Christ at the inception of a new birth, an important reminder that needs to be reflected on often.

We must keep well in mind that expression of spiritual matters is often difficult enough, sometimes even impossible. Let us bear with one another with patience and understanding.

[b][u]What is not tolerated[/u][/b]

Slander. Ill-will. Unnecessary accusations, comments.

The issue is one of order rather than control. We allow as much patience as possible for corrections and apologies. Please make your corrections with a follow up reply, rather than by use of the edit function. There has been a misuse of this in the past where whole sections have been removed from an ongoing thread, making it now disconnected, like removing pages from a book. Please use the edit function for spelling corrections and if needed within the body of a post, please add a footnote to that which has been changed and why.

[b][u]*Politics[/u][/b]

We have found it necessary to curtail political discussion here for a variety of reasons. It is primarily out of step with the manner and thrust of Sermon Index in it's intention and we have found little good to come from an allowance of things based politically into the discussions. It is unfortunate, but the results have shown that policy and pundits of secular government are divisive enough inherently and while that is neither here nor there, it is again that which would have little to do with this sites intentions. Moreover, where we have allowed it in the past it is almost always that of the Western hemisphere and largely American politics that wish to be argued over. This is a ministry borne out of Canada and gone out into all the world, rarely has the politics of other nations been brought forth for discussion and overall very little of it has to do with spiritual attributes. For these reasons we ask you to not bring forth political matters.

It is inevitable that with an allowance of items and issues effecting us all by that which is happening in this present world that attributes of a political nature will creep in, this is understood. However, we will keep a very close eye on these things and may ask you to stop midstream or lock a posting if in our discretion we feel that it is out of place in the forum.

[u][b]Conspiracy and Conspiracy Theory[/b][/u]

We believe there is certainly a conspiracy afoot, that which is present since the fall of mankind in their enmity with God. What other websites or ministries may have of a variety of present theory as it relates to what the governments of the world are doing is too much in dispute to be presented here. The New World Order and One Government system is understood in a variety of fashion. What we will not allow is unscrupulous and un-scriptural notions and ideals to foster fear and paranoia to the saints. Our trust and yours should be placed firmly in God, not in the conspiracy of the world, the flesh or the devil. We will monitor these things in our best discretion but do not bring in ministries or other agendas devoted to these mandates.

[u][b]Personal Prayers and "Rebuking the Devil"[/b][/u]

Please do not post personal prayers in a explicit matter to God in a posting or reply. We would not have anyone not leaving a comment or exhortation; I.E. "May the Lord bless you richly" and the like is perfectly acceptable. But do not post long, extraneously worded prayers in the forum. [b]Do not[/b] post "rebukes to the devil" or "coming against every foul demon ..." worded pronouncements in the forum.


[b][u]What you can do to help[/u][/b]

Be polite. Don't be rude to others.
Keep foremost in your mind the weight of responsibility you have with what the Lord stated;

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

As well as;

Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

The Lord is in our midst here and this whole resource is dependent on the Holy Spirit by those who have both brought all this forth and we hope by those who participate, first as brethren and as guests\\members.


Please, pray.
Pray before you post.
Pray as you write in response.
Pray, and ask the question of the Lord;
"Should I?"
Listen, give yourself a minute.
Pray one last time and pause before you submit.


Try and think of the ramifications of your thoughts and comments. Some things need not to be said. Some things can wait. Some things just as well do need to be addressed, but the manner may add more of a problem than be a help towards correction.

You may find it best to save some things that you have spent a considerable amount of time writing to a file to be brought forth at a different time.

Use the preview button. Re-read what you have written. Reflect and ask yourself some of these questions. We have found by experience that often our particular circumstances can affect much of our thoughts in any given moment. To look at something in the morning and later in the day can reveal a completely different mindset oftentimes. We have seen more problems from reactionary impulses than from the reflective. It is welcomed to slow down and give place to each other.

There is a great deal more than could be said. These are all guidelines to make matters beneficial to all. It is a warm welcome we afford to all within these parameters. Make yourself comfortable, but keep your feet off the table. :)

[u][b]Lastly[/b][/u]

Ask questions and do your best to answer questions. Keep well in mind that often times a question is not necessarily pointed, but is truly a question. Just as well, it is especially frowned on to be jostling with each other by way of accusation towards each others intents and motives. Be forthright and honest.

"[i]Play the ball and not the man.[/i]"

Which translates to the issue being discussed. Keep to this and away from what we may assume someone is thinking. Again, ask a question rather than making an accusation.

A note about personal effrontery and offendedness. We have found since the inception of this site that many any item is misconstrued by accusation and presupposition upon motive and intent. It is far better to assume nothing by way of suspicion nor to accuse without factual information. Better to not accuse at all but in points of biblical doctrine a challenge may be forwarded to our interpretations, do not take it personally and do not make it personal. Control your emotions and keep before you the mandate of humility.

Do keep in mind that the moderators will do their best to discern where and when to intervene and more so that they are your fellow pilgrims and servants, just as fallible as each of us here. "Moderate" your own self and leave the moderating beyond that to those appointed to do so. If you find something that is out of place, that is divisive amongst the brethren, bring it to their attention and they will do their best to address it.

[b][u]Confession[/u][/b]

Yes! We welcome it and desire it. It is not embarrassment to admit when we have faulted or sinned, caused a disturbance, been mean-spirited, proud, but an extreme blessing to the community and before the Lord. No one will be shamed into anything here nor manipulated, but forgiven without equivocation upon repentance. Remember it is not to us that you are owing this when it is warranted but to the Lord first and foremost and then by extension those you have trespassed upon. Admittedly and unfortunately it is a rare thing to hear in these parts and we could but pray for more forthcoming on practical honesty, it builds character and exposes our pride, that most sinister of sins.

[b][u]Summary[/u][/b]

Jesus is Lord.
'We' do hold to a high view of His Majesty.
'We' have no particular creed other than that He be exalted above all.

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

As to fellowship here:

Tit 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
Tit 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Tit 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


****************

[b]Community Rules[/b]

[b]1. Ensure that your new topics are in the correct forum.[/b]
-If your new topic doesn't fit with the description of the forum you're in, do not post it there.
-Posting new topics in the correct forums helps keep the Community organized and helps to keep topics easier to find.
-Topics posted in the wrong forum (as determined by the Moderator Team) will be moved to the appropriate forum.

[b]2. Post guidelines:[/b]
-If you're replying to a post, stay on topic as much as possible.
-If you're posting a new topic, do not post something that has been discussed numerous times. Browse the forums first or use the Search function.
-Do not link images from other sites without their permission; instead, it's much more polite to give a link to them.
-Do not link to outside media including SERMONS and VIDEOS from other websites, the main reason for the inclusion of this rule is abuse of it in posting audio sermons that have false doctrine or false emphasis.
-Do not flame other users; this includes derogatory comments based on age, gender, race, ethnicity, religion, nationality, etc. You will be banned immediately for this offense.

[b]3. When linking to the Community, here or elsewhere, please use [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/]https://www.sermonindex.net[/url][/b]

[b]4. Advertising:[/b]
-Do not advertise your own site unless it's a personal site that you wish to share or you're trying to help someone find something they're looking for.
-"Spam" (advertising) Illegal/inappropriate content and flooding will be deleted.

[b]5. Do not overuse:[/b]
-Emoticons (i.e., :#, :), or :8 )
-Line breaks or CAPITALS
-Nested quotes/code BBCode
-Giant or tiny font sizes or ugly, hard to read colors.

[b]6. Language:[/b]
-Do not swear.
-Do your best to use proper, easy to understand English. Not everyone's primary language is English, so we must try to make it easy for those who know English as a secondary language.
-Avoid slang, including "phat," "LOL" or "BRB," "i c u," and so on. Slang shouldn't be a part of the Christian's vocabulary; the Bible's written in a very majestic language, but so many nowadays degrade themselves to "Yo, 'sup?" or "homie."

[b]7. Do not harass users on the Community, through Private Messages, or e-mail You can be banned for this.[/b]

[b]8. Signatures[/b]
-Signatures should be kept brief, easy to read, and unobtrusive. You may not post images in your signature and may only have 1 weblink url in it. If the link is inappropriate moderators may remove this ability from the member.

[b]9. Avatars[/b]
-Avatars can be chosen from the list of over 100 images, you cannot upload your own.

[b]10. Arguing with the Moderator Team over the enforcement of these rules will get you no where.[/b]
-We will not contend nor dispute with the unruly.
-If you're told to change the way you're behaving here, you must comply or leave.
-Repeat offenders will be banned

[b]11. If you have any problems, contact an Administrator or make a post in an appropriate forum asking for help. Someone surely will be glad to help you.[/b]

[b]12. Please recognize that we are here to serve you[/b] and are fallible, unprofitable servants. Do not mistake patience for laxity, we may appear to allow more than is warranted at times in the prayerful hope that some admonishens might take hold. We would lord over no one by legality or a multiplicity of rules while yet maintaining some control over the many that have come here to find meat in due season. We do have lives apart from this forum and cannot possibly be omnipresent, we ask that you keep Him who is ever present always before your thoughts and mind as you conduct yourself here as guest\\members.

[i](*Last Edited on 12/11/08)[/i]

R
redboy Feb 3, 2007

I'm a newbie to this site but from what I see it is well established and very professional. If I make mistakes posting please bare with me. I promise that no slander will be used, when i say mistakes i mean from the technical aspect. I'm like a kid in a candy shop right now, or should i say a lost soul who has just stumbled on a vast amount of spiritual educational tools. I really respect you guys for the time you put in this site. I'm a full time student studying education, but I'll be switching my major to Biblical Studies later in the year. After that, I would like to pursue either a master in divinity or theology. Any advice?

U
UniqueWebRev Mar 3, 2007

Seriously, there is much of greatness on this site.

As to your Master's being in Divinity or Theology tends towards your chosen profession. Divinity seems to be trending towards being a pastor, while Theology trends towards teaching, whether within or without a church.

Of course, God can use either for any purpose He chooses. I think you need to talk to your counselor, and then pray a lot.

Blessings,

S
sicnarf Jul 6, 2007

Thanks for the rules. I will do my utmost to abide by them at all time. Very glad to be a part of this growing community of believers. Looking forward to discuss and share with all of you.

C
crsschk Aug 15, 2007

Please note new updates.

L
Luvpat Oct 31, 2007

I have read the rules and will do my best to follow them. Thank you for the opportunity to be a part of the fellowship.............

N
nowhr2hide Nov 6, 2007

Many thanks to all of you who have put this site together ... for the Kingdom of God

sermonindex Nov 17, 2007

Gotcha! ;-) :-)

O
OneofUs Jan 6, 2008

Thank you for this site, it is a real blessing, and I don't say that lightly.

C
crsschk Mar 12, 2008

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[b][u]Addendum[/u][/b] ~ [i]2/12/2008[/i]

In our experience there are times when a restating has become necessary if even unfortunate. With some repetition and enforcement, again the following;


"[b]What it is not[/b]

It is not a 'chat room'.
It is not a place to bring an agenda regardless of intentions.
It is not a place for promotion of ones self, website or wares.
It is not 'denominational' while gleaning from many.
It is neither legalistic nor 'anything goes'.
It is not a place for politics, politicians, policy's nor particular support thereof.

[b]What it is[/b]

It is first and foremost a privilege. "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

([i]A month old and shelved after some reconsidering at the time, it now seems warranted due to recent events.[/i])


I want to take notice of the aspects above and linger on the word [i]privilege[/i].

There has been much abuse of the privileges afforded here to everyone and it is time to address this with full force and even some indignation with those whose conduct and behavior is strictly at odds with the purpose and thrust of this great ministry.

Everyone, each to his own, consider seriously, prayerfully these observations.

Some are high-minded. Some are self-righteous. Some are haughty and [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=10733&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]proud[/url]. Some are busybodies and gossips, meddlers in matters that they ought not, need not, interfere. Some insinuate. Others presume. Some make things personal when they are not. Others are too personal, too emotional to consider, listen or take any [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=18390&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]correction[/url]. Some find themselves as those that believe they are helps to disputes but fail to recognize that they themselves are more the cause and often the perpetrators of inflaming even more unrest and strife. Some are overbearing and dominate the discussions, giving little room for others. All these things and more could be addressed. Some of them, all of them, may find traits, aspects at any given time in each one of us. Some give evidence in abundance of them by their behavior and conduct.

Here is what I want to address and ask to be considered. Your accusers are not the moderators nor even other members as much as the sources that are presented here, freely given as they are. It is these primarily dead saints, used mightily of God who are speaking in our ears constantly, that is if we are listening, if we are taking all these things to heart. They are your accusers. The articles. The sermons.

Are we listening to them? It is becoming a wonder as this forum has taken advantage of it its afforded privileges and drifted into personal opinionated agendas, constructs and whatever whim or fancy suits us. Again, this forum is [i]not[/i] a chat room and it is [i]not[/i] a 'message board' try as we might prove it otherwise. Learn the difference between debate and discussion, a scriptural definition.

For those who have some duration, some longevity here. You ought to know better. Do not mistake long-suffering and patience for abstract tolerance.

This forum has always been different in it's intents and purposes. The articles, the sermons speak for themselves and the design and purpose of this avenue, while accompanying a variety, still have these things as their foundation, their thrust, their promotion. Revival. This very forum needs a revival of it's own understanding. We must bring it back to it's first inception and intentions.

[b]Factions[/b]

There has been an abuse of some of the afforded privileges of Private Messages (PM's). They were never intended to be used to form small clicks of those who we might find agreeable and in turn become small entities all in their own right. These formations must be broken up now. Whether they are intentional or not is beyond the point. The evidence is out here in the main when members come and begin to defend one another and thereby make things even more personal by what is being discussed in secret, 'private'. Lest this be mistaken, the whole reason for this mention is only that there not be a duplicity of things mentioned publicly and then turned into a back-door policy. There is to be no back door policy whereby members divide off into schisms and divisions, it will not be tolerated if it becomes evident.

Keep in mind this is neither a hierarchy nor a democracy that is operational here. We have to set some guidelines by matter of course. You may disagree, but we have the sites interests to maintain, that we will place as first order.

Everyone is accountable for the words they are typing here, one after the other. Yours, mine, all of us are typing on a mirror if we would just recognize it and recall the very slighted remembrance of our eternally accountability for each and every one of them.

Remember. The extension of this forum is a [i]privilege[/i] that is not to be abused, but it has been abused and seemingly few will take the matter to heart.

Think about the ramifications. It has come into our hearing on too many occasions that a great many are turned away from participation and who knows, maybe even from this site as a whole due to the actions, conduct and behavior of some of the members. Some have just up and left altogether who once frequented these pages. There are over 4000 unique people from over 80 countries that visit this site daily, this needs to be kept in the forefront of our minds.

Please, allow the moderators to do the moderating and do not take matters into your own hands. Allow us the discretion and the patience to deal with the inevitable issues that arise. What you might find troubling, heretical, disturbing is not lost upon us but remember that it is to your own self and your conduct here that you are responsible for first and foremost.

Ask yourself the penetrating question;

[i]Is it I?[/i]

Mike Balog

[i](*Last Edited on 2/12/08)[/i]
[i](*Last Edited on 3/12/08)[/i]


L
Lacey_Aver_D Mar 12, 2008

I will take this to heart as i visit your community.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss Mar 12, 2008

Hi Mike...

Thanks for this timely reminder! What a fearful thing to remember that we will be held accountable for every word we speak or type -- both in public and in private!


Think about the ramifications. It has come into our hearing on too many occasions that a great many are turned away from participation and who knows, maybe even from this site as a whole due to the actions, conduct and behavior of some of the members. Some have just up and left altogether who once frequented these pages. There are over 4000 unique people from over 80 countries that visit this site daily, this needs to be kept in the forefront of our minds.

Please, allow the moderators to do the moderating and do not take matters into your own hands. Allow us the discretion and the patience to deal with the inevitable issues that arise. What you might find troubling, heretical, disturbing is not lost upon us but remember that it is to your own self and your conduct here that you are responsible for first and foremost.


When I was a child, our family attended a very vibrant and sound congregation. Although I wasn't a believer at the time, the Church had a profound effect on my parents and siblings. Even as a child, however, I noticed a problem with a small faction of believers who attended the congregation. They took it upon themselves to police the Church by "quietly" exposing every hint of what they felt was wrong. My mom referred to them as the "Gestapo." Of course, this gossip was “sanctified” by the ol’ guise of concern, prayer requests and the call to “expose evil.” Any attempt by the leadership to reprove these believers led to addition questions of the leadership’s aptitude for “spiritual discernment.” They criticized anyone and everyone who could not “see” the things that they thought were easily discerned. Although my family was very involved in the Church, we tended to shy away from these individuals. My mom was afraid that this little group of gossipers would one day destroy the congregation. Because of my dad’s military orders, we eventually moved away from that community and Church.

Years later, I visited the area during a college internship. I wanted to meet the pastors and let them know that I had given my heart to the Lord while in high school. Unfortunately, that congregation no longer existed. The congregation ceased to exist and the property was sold to another congregation. I asked a family friend about what happened, and she said that a small group of members spread unhealthy words and rumors throughout the congregation. This constant gossip eventually turned off new believers and recent attendees. The leadership of the congregation eventually grew tired of constantly pointing out these same believers’ actions. Eventually, they left. The Church was safely in the hands of the small “Gestapo.” They used their newfound liberty to voice their complaints and criticism of everything from particular doctrines to motives. They rejected most of the new pastors simply because of petty differences and questions about their leadership ability. Of course, this did little to help the spiritual growth of the congregation. Eventually, this small faction turned on one another. The reputation of the congregation turned ugly and the Church folded just a short time later.

By chance, I happened to run into one of those individuals with a knack for gossip at a grocery store. She recognized me and asked about my parents. Almost immediately, she began to tell me about the tragic story about how that congregation fell apart. She agreed that Satan brought down that congregation from the inside, but her story was a little different. She complained about the lack of discernment regarding individuals, leadership and a few particular doctrines. She complained that no one would listen to her “perspectives” even if she loudly explained what was going on behind the scenes. She told me that she was “astonished” at the lack of discernment in the leadership and congregation, and she finally left just before the end.

It was amazing how something so small as an opinionated voice (or group of voices) can sink a sound ship. Not only can such things sink a ship, but they can destroy the reputation of a noble work. Is it any wonder that the New Testament warns us about our tongues? In this modern medium of the Internet, our fingers can do just as much damage as our tongues. It is a terrible thought to realize that our tongues (and fingers) can help or destroy. Life and death are truly in the power of the tongue – and in the typing of our fingers. We should endeavor to make the most of every opportunity to promote Christ with our every breath. We should treat others with the same patience for which we desire to be shown toward us. And we should never forget the words of Paul in I Corinthians chapter 13:

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”

:-)

C
crsschk Mar 13, 2008

Chris,

That is tragic. I must admit that even considering all these things here did bring the correlations to what must happen when churches resort to the same styled things. It had me also wondering and more appreciative of pastors levels of patience with those that have such opinions on how things are handled or done, all the while not knowing maybe even their perplexity's of dealing with them all. To have to give so much attention to those that demand so much attention to their particular pet peeves or even their perceptions ... Think you hit on it right here;

Any attempt by the leadership to reprove these believers led to addition questions of the leadership’s aptitude for “spiritual discernment.”

Perhaps I am taking that a bit differently than intended. The draw of attention to specific individuals because the questions just keep coming, the want of an explanation for the last explanation leading to yet another question and so on.

It's difficult to speak to everything here in this way, it's difficult to speak in generalities and it is really difficult to speak to individuals specifically in a setting like this. You can't win and winning isn't the desire. Just to think and consider, see our faults and failures, our contributions to the trouble, even those trying to mitigate them. It doesn't need to be laced with suspicion ... just honesty.

B
broclint Mar 13, 2008

I appreciate the priveledge we have been given to post and discuss the Word of God, share fellowship, request prayer and glorify God for answers all in the framework of seeking revival together.

Unfortunately we Americans so often interpret "priveledges" as "rights". I do want to honor your very reasonable and wise instruction.

I thought of the verses in regard to the update of this thread and Brother Chris's post:
Galatians 5:13 - 15 (NKJV) 13For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [b]15But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another! [/b]

May God help us/me not to be a part of biting and devouring, but of edifying and advancing revival.

Clint

sermonindex Mar 13, 2008

You know eventually the rules will be modified again and again. Why not just do away with the headache of having a forum, if it's that bad? That way you don't have to be bothered with any issues that crop up, or the whining of members being insulted or offended.

Something to consider when you modify the rules even tighter than they already are.

(In my humble opinion) :-(

C
ccchhhrrriiisss Mar 18, 2008

Hi Brother Compliments...

I think that the Administrator and Moderators of SermonIndex are trying to provide a forum that is different than many of the other forums available online. Many other Christian forums often permit intensely divisive discussions. But doesn't this go against our call as believers? We are admonished by God to flee from such things.

SermonIndex is unique in that the Moderators are trying to create a forum that is free from divisions that often consume many believers. This is, of course, difficult to accomplish. Each of us comes from different denominational (or non-denominational) backgrounds and stages of maturity. When someone doesn’t listen to what one believer is “certain” that the Lord has shown them, they can react with either patience or exasperation. The forum’s guidelines, I believer, are designed to prevent the latter.

There will certainly be differences of opinion in regard to doctrinal beliefs. There are, however, some things that the leadership of SermonIndex has agreed upon as being completely established by the Scriptures. They have spelled out these things in the guidelines. For instance, SermonIndex acknowledges a belief in the Trinity (or one God existent in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit), baptism by immersion, justification by faith in God alone (the evidence of this being good works), etc… There have been people here who do not embrace one or more of these things. I don’t believe that the section is meant to limit discussion about such things, but it is meant to prevent flagrant assault on such things.

I don’t think that these rules are meant to be serve as a conversational confinement, but more along the lines of protecting this web community from the dangers of division festering. I imagine that it would be difficult to find two believers who completely agree upon every single dot or tittle of personal doctrinal persuasion. However, we can still react with patience and civility toward one another. We should remember: “Death and life are in the power of the tongue” (Proverbs 18:21).

Gossip that is whispered through a particular thread or through the auspices of Private Messages, on the other hand, is contrary to the teachings of Christ. Consider the words of Jesus in Luke chapter 22:

[b]Luke 22:52-53[/b]

52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

I am often amazed at the amounts of secret discussion that goes on in a Church setting. If people truly had legitimate cause for concern, they would have fulfilled the Scriptures and approached such individuals in private. Instead, they take it upon themselves to either slay them with allegations that are whispered in private, or they resort to public gossip. Either way, it is exactly how the Pharisees acted with Christ.

So how should believers react with one another? The Scriptures are filled with guidelines for conversation. The third chapter of James is often cited in sermons about the “taming of the tongue.” We are warned about having both “blessing and cursing” flow from the same mouth (James 3:10). Interestingly, the chapter concludes with an admonition for using wisdom in our conversations:

[b]James 3:13-19[/b]

13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

A word of gossip and dissention is often voiced in secret before it is uttered in private. If we endeavor to utter wisdom, we should realize that this wisdom is peaceable and gentle. After years at SermonIndex, I have noticed that some of those who left (either voluntarily or through compulsion) have often departed because of an inability to remain peaceable with those of whom they disagreed. Patience was sometimes only exerted toward those who agreed with them in regard to a particular matter at hand.

My wife visits the forums on occasion. She often reminds me to keep away from threads that cause divisions – particularly if little good will result from such conversation. My wife instructs me to avoid conversations where people are willing to “chop off” others from the Body of Christ – especially because of petty doctrinal differences or an unwillingness to discuss provocations in private. It is a difficult thing because I tend to get along with the believers that I meet (including those with whom I disagree). We are certainly the Body of Christ. Yet I think that it is wise to acknowledge the need for such implied or scripted guidelines. Otherwise, we would become an anarchical body that is dissected by our own assumptions or opinions.

SermonIndex is a community of Christ-seeking believers – not mere thinkers. Its purpose is made abundantly clear through the [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/about.php]About Us[/url] section and the [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14144&forum=13&3]Forum Disclaimer[/url]. We should do our best to work our conversations toward that end in a peaceable and loving manner. If we are to spend Eternity with our King and one another, shouldn’t our conversations reflect this here on Earth? God help us to reflect the character of Christ – even in our words!

Lord, please purify my tongue to reflect your loveliness!

:-)

sermonindex Mar 19, 2008


If we look at Act's 20, we see many important guide lines as it pertains shepherding , shepherds, and the Great Shepard. As I see it, fundamentally, this is what the moderators of Sermon Index are, and do; they Shepard, in a limited way....a literary , cyberway.
I appreciate this site, and intend to support it, as the Lord leads. It is very valuable to have these archives of Godly ministry, and discussion forums, where there is an opportunity for deep to call out to deep.

Shepherds do three basic things, as I see it, in the kingdom. 1]. they feed the church of God...2] they protect the church of God..3]they allow the Holy Spirit to be the absolute King and Lord , glorifying Jesus, over the body He redeemed.Without this oversight, in a matter of time, every Church will disintegrate, or be devoured by error. It's the devil's job; his commission to war with the offspring of the Lord.

In this case, however, you can't touch or hold your sheep, or inquiries. You only deal with persona's; Images...What people think of themselves, or project through their writing. I would imagine, being new here, that there are regular thorns in the flesh that always have an axe to grind, and many lonely, wounded people who have found a home where they feel accepted in a spiritual community. This can be wonderful, and I am surprised to find so many mature and sweet people, but it can never be a church. You can never really know the flock, nor can the flock know you, just the literary persona you project, and the spirit of your written word and ministry, and visa-verso.

Saying that, Anarchy, Ego's[ men wanting recognition and a name for themselves]confusion, and "grievous wolves" are howling at your door, desiring to destroy and tear apart, and to draw away sheep unto themselves. This is the nature of the Shepard's ministry, to deal with these controversies for the good of God's people.Feed, protect, and direct all to the feet of Jesus. The difference here is, that you are responsible for guidance, and content, not directly for the souls of those who subscribe to this site. A biblical Shepherd is responsible for the souls of those the Lord has entrusted him, and your relationship with your "sheep" is vastly limited, as I said, to ideas and persona. If someone is a repeated thorn, you reject him or her, while often a Pastor would bear long suffering, until this sheep grew out of it, or was healed,

Never the less, I admire the balance you have achieved here, and the freedom, understanding the many pits and downright Satanic assaults that must come at you. You must have order, and avoid strife, and with a "who-so-ever will come" open door policy, I sure sorcerers and witches dance in often with a biblical handle, to sew discord, or just to consume you with battle.


So, you need WISDOM, and MERCY, and the prayers of those who also are touched by this ministry, to please Jesus in this endeavour. Brother Tom

sermonindex Mar 20, 2008

I felt clarity and understanding as I read your history,concerning the common union of the body of Christ, and those who disdain it.

"For he that eats and drinks unworthily, eats and drinks judgement unto himself,not discerning the Lord's body." 1 cor. 11,, vs 29

"Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go; yes, strife and reproach shall go."Proverbs, 22 vs. 10

We remember the admonition to Titus [ 3 vs 10. ] after the 1st and then 2nd admonition to a DIVIDER, [heretic], reject, knowing he is subverted [twisted] and sins, even under condemnation by his own mind.

This is the shepherds duty, the plurality, over the local body. I would submit to you, tragically, the Pastors there failed the body by not removing these cancers before they spread. It's unheard of today , but absolutely necessary. I believe that the day is upon us, that holiness returns to the true church, and we will see biblical authority re instituted that brings fear, and holiness back. Remember Ananias and Saphira. They took their deception lightly, but God saw it differently.

Thank you for this tender insight into your faith. This experience will offer comfort and counsel to all of us who are tempted to criticize and gossip, and see that this spirit is the spirit of the murderer, and encourage those the Lord has given oversight to act with wisdom to protect the body from the destroyer.


"one Body, one Lord, One Baptism, one faith, one God, one Savior above all, and through all"

Brothertom.

Thanks for this timely reminder! What a fearful thing to remember that we will be held accountable for every word we speak or type -- both in public and in private!


Think about the ramifications. It has come into our hearing on too many occasions that a great many are turned away from participation and who knows, maybe even from this site as a whole due to the actions, conduct and behavior of some of the members. Some have just up and left altogether who once frequented these pages. There are over 4000 unique people from over 80 countries that visit this site daily, this needs to be kept in the forefront of our minds.

Please, allow the moderators to do the moderating and do not take matters into your own hands. Allow us the discretion and the patience to deal with the inevitable issues that arise. What you might find troubling, heretical, disturbing is not lost upon us but remember that it is to your own self and your conduct here that you are responsible for first and foremost.


When I was a child, our family attended a very vibrant and sound congregation. Although I wasn't a believer at the time, the Church had a profound effect on my parents and siblings. Even as a child, however, I noticed a problem with a small faction of believers who attended the congregation. They took it upon themselves to police the Church by "quietly" exposing every hint of what they felt was wrong. My mom referred to them as the "Gestapo." Of course, this gossip was “sanctified” by the ol’ guise of concern, prayer requests and the call to “expose evil.” Any attempt by the leadership to reprove these believers led to addition questions of the leadership’s aptitude for “spiritual discernment.” They criticized anyone and everyone who could not “see” the things that they thought were easily discerned. Although my family was very involved in the Church, we tended to shy away from these individuals. My mom was afraid that this little group of gossipers would one day destroy the congregation. Because of my dad’s military orders, we eventually moved away from that community and Church.

Years later, I visited the area during a college internship. I wanted to meet the pastors and let them know that I had given my heart to the Lord while in high school. Unfortunately, that congregation no longer existed. The congregation ceased to exist and the property was sold to another congregation. I asked a family friend about what happened, and she said that a small group of members spread unhealthy words and rumors throughout the congregation. This constant gossip eventually turned off new believers and recent attendees. The leadership of the congregation eventually grew tired of constantly pointing out these same believers’ actions. Eventually, they left. The Church was safely in the hands of the small “Gestapo.” They used their newfound liberty to voice their complaints and criticism of everything from particular doctrines to motives. They rejected most of the new pastors simply because of petty differences and questions about their leadership ability. Of course, this did little to help the spiritual growth of the congregation. Eventually, this small faction turned on one another. The reputation of the congregation turned ugly and the Church folded just a short time later.

By chance, I happened to run into one of those individuals with a knack for gossip at a grocery store. She recognized me and asked about my parents. Almost immediately, she began to tell me about the tragic story about how that congregation fell apart. She agreed that Satan brought down that congregation from the inside, but her story was a little different. She complained about the lack of discernment regarding individuals, leadership and a few particular doctrines. She complained that no one would listen to her “perspectives” even if she loudly explained what was going on behind the scenes. She told me that she was “astonished” at the lack of discernment in the leadership and congregation, and she finally left just before the end.

It was amazing how something so small as an opinionated voice (or group of voices) can sink a sound ship. Not only can such things sink a ship, but they can destroy the reputation of a noble work. Is it any wonder that the New Testament warns us about our tongues? In this modern medium of the Internet, our fingers can do just as much damage as our tongues. It is a terrible thought to realize that our tongues (and fingers) can help or destroy. Life and death are truly in the power of the tongue – and in the typing of our fingers. We should endeavor to make the most of every opportunity to promote Christ with our every breath. We should treat others with the same patience for which we desire to be shown toward us. And we should never forget the words of Paul in I Corinthians chapter 13:

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”

:-)

H
helengreen Jun 22, 2008

Thank you for such an amazing website!

New here to Sermon Index, read and understood the rules :-)

God bless you all, Helen

C
crsschk Jun 22, 2008

Welcome sister!

It is amazing ...

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