The way to stop Muslims!

I have it in my spirit very strongly that the only way to stop the madness of the muslims and other terrorists is for the Church of Jesus Christ to pray to God and humble herself!

I agree with this hope Greg.

Edit: alas. I'm still learning it's better to pray then talk about prayer...

if every true blood bought Christian would cry out to God would he not move and save 1 million muslims???

Blessings dear brethren,

MC

Obviously, we can't disagree with prayer for this. Recently, a thought came to my mind that if only a fraction of the number people who are willing to blow themselves up for the Muslim radical ideas were Christians going into Muslim areas, where they would surely be killed, hugh numbers of Muslims would come to Jesus. This would undermine Islam throughout the world. Of course these Christians would have to be God sent.

if every true blood bought Christian would cry out to God would he not move and save 1 million muslims???

Obviously, we can't disagree with prayer for this.

I suspect that millions of Christians will indeed be agreeing to raise their voices to God in prayer, especially in the coming frightful days.

We may certainly agree, but I wonder, would God be agreeing with our prayers?

Someone once said that the reason many of our prayers are not answered is because we are not willing to pay the price for their fulfilment. GaryE pointed that out:

….Christians going into Muslim areas, where they would surely be killed, huge numbers of Muslims would come to Jesus.

I fear that few Christians (me included) have any idea what the answer to our prayers would require of us. Most of us want the best of both kingdoms – God’s and the worlds. We want our cake and eat it too. But it doesn’t work that way. We can’t remain the richest people in the world and keep the best for ourselves while millions are lacking, and expect God’s blessings and security.

God may be saying: Go sell what you have and give to the poor. Go, forgive your enemy, your spouse, your boss, your parents, etc etc . Of course, if we can’t live out Christ’s principles in the smallest contexts of relationships, how can participate in them in the grand scale.

The question the Lord may be asking his people is: “Do you want the Muslims to know me and are you willing to do what it takes, or do you want me to save them so that you will be able to feel secure and be rid of the 'thorn'?”

Isaiah 58
True Fasting
1 "Shout it aloud, do not hold back.
Raise your voice like a trumpet.
Declare to my people their rebellion
and to the house of Jacob their sins.

2 For day after day they seek me out;
they seem eager to know my ways,
as if they were a nation that does what is right
and has not forsaken the commands of its God.
They ask me for just decisions
and seem eager for God to come near them.

3 'Why have we fasted,' they say,
'and you have not seen it?
Why have we humbled ourselves,
and you have not noticed?'
"Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please
and exploit all your workers.

4 Your fasting ends in quarreling and strife,
and in striking each other with wicked fists.
You cannot fast as you do today
and expect your voice to be heard on high.

5 Is this the kind of fast I have chosen,
only a day for a man to humble himself?
Is it only for bowing one's head like a reed
and for lying on sackcloth and ashes?
Is that what you call a fast,
a day acceptable to the LORD ?

6 "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke? [thirld world nations?]

7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe him,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?

8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness [a] will go before you,
and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.

9 Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.
"If you do away with the yoke of oppression,
with the pointing finger and malicious talk,

10 and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry
and satisfy the needs of the oppressed,
then your light will rise in the darkness,
and your night will become like the noonday. [thirld world nations?]

11 The LORD will guide you always;
he will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land
and will strengthen your frame.
You will be like a well-watered garden,
like a spring whose waters never fail.

12 Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins
and will raise up the age-old foundations;
you will be called Repairer of Broken Walls,
Restorer of Streets with Dwellings.

13 "If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the LORD's holy day honorable,
and if you honor it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,

14 then you will find your joy in the LORD,
and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land
and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob."
The mouth of the LORD has spoken.

Diane

Corey,

Not here. Save the judgement for the Lord.

Dear brother GaryE,

I read a book recently called [b]Back To Jerusalem[/b] [i]Three Chinese House Church Leaders Share Their Vision To Complete The Great Commission[/i].

Very inspiring reading and it has to do with what you mentioned.

Chris

I read a book recently called [b]Back To Jerusalem[/b] [i]Three Chinese House Church Leaders Share Their Vision To Complete The Great Commission[/i].

Very inspiring reading and it has to do with what you mentioned.

Chris

Amen!

Today I finished reading 'The Heavenly Man' also by Brother Yun and I was strongly encouraged. I got the impression that the muslim world may not be saved by believers with white skin -which is a shame, but the western church isn't in any shape to reach the lost and dying in the 10/40 window.

I've been greatly encouraged recently reading books by KP Yohannan, Brother Andrew and Brother Yun. It's amazing how all of these men are tied together through the spirit, in mission, in ministry, and in time and space.

Brother Andrew's ministry Open Doors is making an impact from the west towards the East through the middle east. KP Yohannan's ministry Gospel For Asia is marching north with the Gospel from the tip of southern India. Brother Yun is marching west with the Gospel from the Chinese house churches and the Back To Jerusalem movement!

Open Doors equiping believers in the Middle East, Gospel For Asia equipping believers in south asia and Back to Jerusalem equipping believers in East Asia!

When I see how the Spirit is working through all of these ministries I can't help but desire to join and fight along side them. But brother Yun pointed out what I think is a unifying theme among all of these three groups of believers, they are the persecuted church. God has formed his servants through trials and suffering... no wonder the Western Church is so innefective! We avoid suffering at all cost, our sermons are almost as comfortable and fluffy as the chairs in our multi-million dollar church buildings!

Praise God that he's raising up a remnant to do the work that needs to be done when his servants wouldn't budge to do it. Jesus wasn't joking when he said that he could raise up children of Abraham out of rocks -out of communist nations and heavy persecution he has raised up children to take his name to the ends of the earth!

How about this simple command of prayer:

Luke 10:2 " The harvest is truly great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into the harvest."

Another model is the believer's in Thessalonica from whom "the word of the Lord sounded forth as an example to others " IThess. 1:7-8 whom were commended for their brotherly love amongst one another , yet commanded to increase more and more in that work of the Spirit. IThess. 4:9-10

Some thought from Scripture,

Blessings,

Doug

I listened to K Daniel’s sermon and a few thoughts came to mind. Firstly, the more I hear and read about revival/restoration/reformation, the more I realize how little I understand all this. Oh, yes, I know that revival is a big move of God when people turn back to him. But how revival should look – I have no idea. The Bible says little about it . I think that is why many grasp for understanding, using various clues in history and signs of the times. K Daniels uses the Islamic threat as a kick-off for his plea to Americans to pray and apply God’s spiritual armor. Here are some of his statements from the sermon:

We must not allow the devil to destroy this land.
The only weapon that God has that can save this country is the army of God.
God waits for us.
Christians you could turn back this land to God in days.
The only fear I have for America is that the church of God won’t get on its knees in time into warfare.
They will stop when you get down on your knees and pray [for the Muslims].
Within three months millions would turn to Christ

I have only one fear: That Christians are too proud to admit that they need to see God.
What the devil has done in 50 years so that your land faces judgments, we could undo in a few days, as the people of God on our knees in prayer.”

I don’t have to let the land be destroyed.

And in closing:
Your history is in your hands, Christians.
God is longing, it’s not God’s fault (if America is not saved).

This is a heavy-duty! Of course these words should apply to any nation – including mine, Canada. But what about China where millions of persecution-bathed Christians live a life of prayer; yet their threat has not been removed.

Daniels wisely points out that there are conditions to prayers being answered: “There’s always a condition to the promise” . If our hearts condemn us not then have we confidence…. without the wrong attitude, without doubting, without doubting
(said twice) ” At this point I was wondering: “What exactly is the “promise” that I need to rest my faith on.” If I go back to his earlier statements, I assume that the “promise” is that America will be saved IF enough of it’s citizens pray in FAITH. Daniels added: “Then what ever we ask, we will receive.”

A few questions arise:
Does God need large numbers? The history of past revivals seems to indicate that God has used the prayers of one or two people. I think of Savanrolla, Rees Howells, Father Nash, Brainard, two elderly confined ladies, etc Gideon’s army of 300 reminds me that it’s not about the might of man, not even their spirituality (Israel at that time wasn’t exactly spiritually mature).

And now I'm wondering if we are confusing America's security with revival. Are they synonymous?

Are scriptures on prayer being applied to a faulty premise?

Richard Owen Roberts has a different take (speaking of revival). He emphasizes the need of a humbling as a prerequisite, even before prayer. “If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves …” First humbling. Of course, we cannot do that very well for ourselves. It is a work of God, and often is the outcome of trying experiences. Might it be possible that true revival on a large scale might come through the large scale breakdown of national boundaries - through losses rather than victories? Can the Christians accept that as possibly from God (rather than it being their fault)?

Another question: Can any nation claim a promise that God will spare their nation if enough of them pray. The OT references applied to the theocracy of Israel, but the New Covenant Kingdom of God does not have boundaries.

Here’s one promise that we can ALL claim in faith: God, by his Spirit, is building his eternal kingdom (the Church) in which there is neither Greek nor Jew, Americans nor Canadians, nor Arabs. It is spread all over the world - and the gates of Hell cannot prevail against it!

Diane

[color=6600CC]This is a heavy-duty! Of course these words should apply to any nation – including mine, Canada. But what about China where millions of persecution-bathed Christians live a life of prayer; yet their threat has not been removed.[/color]

This is a very good point. If you have never read a book called " The Heavenly Man" by Pastor Yun, you should. The church in relatively unpersecuted areas has no idea of how much other places suffer, all the while pouring out their prayers before God. They have many hours while in solitary confinement to pray. I have to think that just as Paul was in prison for his faith, that was a useful time to God to write large portions of the New Testament. God wastes nothing.

Brother Yun says that God allowed him go go back to prison at one point because he had lost his dependance on God. He also says not to pray that God will remove believers from prison but to pray God will keep them strong and faithful.

He doesn't see persecution as something to be shunned but embraced, a gift to conform us to His image.

I don't think that means we should say OK God bring diaster on us, but we should know that it rains on the just and unjust and God has said in His word that judgment will come at some point, not every christian will be spared the hard times, just as Betsy and Corrie Ten-Boom went though horrid times along with everybody around them. God's promise was true, just as it was with Bro. Yun, God never left them or forsook them. He was with them in the firey furnace.

I particularly liked one passage in 'The Heavenly Man' when brother yun quiped about which seminary he attended. A western believer had asked the Chinese brother what seminary they learned at and their answer was more or less 'the one with bars on the windows.' I wish i could quote it for you exactly, but I loaned my copy of the book to someone already!

Just saw/listened to the video...

Makes me ask, should'nt we consider...

...[i]holiness to be our privilige[/i]

that above being our duty and calling?

The testimonies in this message are powerfull, especially that of brother Keith Daniel in Times Square. That is really an understatement, to say merely powerfull concerning the latter.

I am somewhat hesitant to share a testimony from my own experience of a similar nature because I do not want to in any way detract from the message of this man of God by even putting my experiences in the same context as his and others and I hope sharing them will not do that. I pray that sharing them may encourage others though.

At least two years ago, probably about three, when I was still living in Baltimore, the congregation I attended was in a time of corporate fasting and prayer. One night during this time I went outside my house to walk around and to pray and felt an unction to pray against the presence of the [i]Kingdom Hall[/i] in my neighborhood. The presence of this building in my neighborhood was always vexing to me, especially as I would drive past it. So I prayed and I distinctly remember turning in the direction of it, asking God to bring it to nothing, that is to bring [b]their work[/b], to nothing. I should emphasise here that I was carefull to keep the thought only that their [b]work[/b] would be brought to nothing, [b]asking nothing against them [u]as people[/u][/b].

Several months later, I think it was near or on Easter Sunday, after service my wife and I dropped off a young woman and her child who attended that morning and on the way back we passed the building.

On the front where it had read [i]Kingdom Hall[/i] it now read something close to, if not exactly

[b]Whosoever Will Deliverance Temple[/b]

Also, there was a so-called [i]adult[/i] store which had opened up while I lived there and every now and then I would stand in front of it and quietly pray as I did in the other case. The store was near to a bus stop that I would stand around to share the Gospel with people and sometimes I would speak to those who entered or came out.

Right before I moved away I noticed what looked like a window had been busted out and the place had been borded up. As far as I know it did not reopen, at least before I had moved away.

There was also the same kind of place that I noticed when I moved here. It was somewhere around Arch and/or Filbert streets and I prayed in the same manner as the others. It too is gone.

Who knows what other brothers and sisters had been praying these same things? And as brother Keith Daniel asks in the message, what [i][b][u]will God[/i][/b][/u], putting the strongest possible emphasis upon God because man can do nothing, what will God [i]not[/i] do and what lengths will He [i]not[/i] be willing to go to, in order to answer our prayers about the things that grieve His heart!