sermonindex
Jan 11, 2007
Can satan be saved? If not. Why? If so. How?
Can satan be saved? If not. Why? If so. How?
I don't think so. Revelation makes it very clear that Satan and his angels along with everyone else whose name is not in the Book of Life will be thrown into the lake of Fire.
True. But what is the reason for their condemnation and how does this compare to us? Also, is it fair? There is a point I'm trying to make here. So don't worry. I'm not trying to justify satan or his angels.
MSeaman wrote:
I don't think so. Revelation makes it very clear that Satan and his angels along with everyone else whose name is not in the Book of Life will be thrown into the lake of Fire.
J-bird
J-bird wrote:
So don't worry. I'm not trying to justify satan or his angels.J-bird
Your not trying to be the Devils advocate? :-P
MrBillPro wrote:
J-bird wrote:
So don't worry. I'm not trying to justify satan or his angels.J-bird
Your not trying to be the Devils advocate? :-P
Anyhoo. Wanted to show that we are privelaged to have been born into sin, unlike the legions of angels and satan himself.
J-bird
okay, I can't think big enough to figure out what made their fall worse than ours. my head hurts just trying. I will wait for your revelation... :)
Can satan be saved? If not. Why? If so. How?
No. Satan cannot be saved.
Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 speaks of Satan's attempt to become a god.
Also, Acts 13:10 tells us that the devil is the "enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy,"
1 John 3:8 says, "Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil."
BTW, what is your purpose for asking this question? Surely you do not think there is hope for Satan...do you?
okay, I can't think big enough to figure out what made their fall worse than ours. my head hurts just trying. I will wait for your revelation... :)
Angels are spirits. I'm not sure how time works for spirits. It is recorded of even a Jezebel in the Revelation that [color=0000ff]“...I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.” (Rev 2:21 NKJV)[/color] I am not sure if spirits can be given 'time to repent'.
Adam's temptation was external but the angels' chose their own way without outside influence.
They have much more 'revelation' than human beings. [color=0000ff]““But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.” (Matt 24:36 NKJV)[/color]
The real issue is that we do not have a biblical revelation of the angels' story and it is only where their story touches ours that we have any insights at all.
Others may have more insights but this will certainly be one thread where my sign-off will fit the bill.
I only meant 'revelation' in the context that J-Bird would reveal what his intentions behind the question were. ;-)
JaySaved wrote:
Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 speaks of Satan's attempt to become a god.
Wasn't satan actually trying to replace God?
In reading over Romans chapter five I was struck with this awesome rvelation of what justification truly is. I don't think we can grasp the concept of justification totally with our weak minds. Justification. Justified from what? The law of course. No longer under the law but grace. Right? Many christians go through life in the bondage of some kind of legalism, and Paul asked the galations "Who hath bewitched you". Legalsim casts a spell on christians, it takes their eyes off Christ and puts their mind on their own works.
The question at hand is this. What makes us any differnet from satan and his angels? I think Romans 5 has the answers. Verse twleve says this. "Wherefore as by one man sin enterd into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"
The following verse says this. 13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when their is no law.
So sin was PASSED onto us from Adam as a result of his disobedience. We as a RACE (unlike the devil and his angels) are BORN into sin. Our condemnation is a result of our racial heritage from which we all can link ourselves straight back to Adam. Whereas God deals with us from a racial perspective, he deals with the fallen angels on an individual level. It was not our choice to be born. Therefore it was not our choice to be BORN INTO SIN. Satan and his followers made a choice and are individually responsible for their downfall.
That's why we are privelaged to have been born into sin. Verse 13 makes it clear that sin was still here even before the law. How do we know? verse 14 has the answer because "death reigned". We know that we are all decendants from Adam because even babys die. Babys are not judged by the law because etheir innocent. Why do babys die? Because their BORN INTO SIN, not as a result of sin.
Make since?
J-bird
So are we condemned as a reult of being born into sin, or as a result of sin that we commited? If the latter is true would this change the way in which we deal with sinners? Should we even use the law to deal with sinners? Just thinking out loud here.
J-bird
The Law must be used to let it be understood why we need a Savior. most people don't understand the reason something is a sin is because it is is offensive to a Holy God.
JaySaved wrote:
Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 speaks of Satan's attempt to become a god.MSeaman wrote:
Wasn't satan actually trying to replace God?
I thought about using that terminology but the reason I wrote that Satan tried to become 'a god' is because of Isaiah 14:14. Here are some translations of that passage:
English Standard Version (ESV)
"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."
King James Version (KJV)
"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."
New King James Version (NKJV)
"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High."
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
"I go up above the heights of a thick cloud, I am like to the Most High."
I understood this to mean that Satan wanted to be like God, not to become God. Maybe it was Satan's intentions to replace God. Could be. I do understand that in the temptation of Jesus, Satan tried to get Jesus to worship and bow down before him. This could infer that Satan wanted to replace God, but it definitely means he wants to be like God.
The clearest reason for knowing that Satan cannot be saved is the fact that Christ only died for man because he became a man not an angel.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus
But then would'nt that mean their a sinner as a result of not keeping the law, instead of being a sinner as a result of original sin?
MSeaman wrote:
The Law must be used to let it be understood why we need a Savior. most people don't understand the reason something is a sin is because it is is offensive to a Holy God.
j-bird
So are we condemned as a reult of being born into sin, or as a result of sin that we commited?
Both. Because man is born with a proclivity to sin, but this does not eradicate his ability to do works of benevolence. Yet to make sure that the works are of no use, the Law magnifies sin, so that sin abounds, and that every mouth is shut before the Law's verdict upon them.
Either way man must throw himself upon the Stone that is Christ for justification, and forgiveness of sin/sins.
JaySaved wrote:I thought about using that terminology but the reason I wrote that Satan tried to become 'a god' is because of Isaiah 14:14.
I understood this to mean that Satan wanted to be like God, not to become God. Maybe it was Satan's intentions to replace God. Could be. I do understand that in the temptation of Jesus, Satan tried to get Jesus to worship and bow down before him. This could infer that Satan wanted to replace God, but it definitely means he wants to be like God.
I agree with your estimation. I'm sorry if I sounded nit picky, that wasn't my intention. I thought he was trying to become God.
edit:
Interesting that satan would try to get Jesus to bow down in worship before him...did satan not know Who Jesus was?
But then would'nt that mean their a sinner as a result of not keeping the law, instead of being a sinner as a result of original sin?
J-bird wrote:
MSeaman wrote:
The Law must be used to let it be understood why we need a Savior. most people don't understand the reason something is a sin is because it is is offensive to a Holy God.
j-bird
Aren't we sinners for both reasons?
Adam's temptation was external but the angels' chose their own way without outside influence.
That's what I have thought for a long time.
This discussion is locked.