tribes that never heard of jesus

luckyd

not sure that your pastor is correct about the Good News being preached everywhere. the answer that God has given me to your question about tribes of people throughout history that do not have access to the Gospel is that we are all undergoing multiple, progressive lifetimes in various circumstances of birth and becoming experienced in all that God's creation has to offer us.

what many call evil is not an intelligent, malevolent being, but rather not-God, not-love, nothingness. and in the end we will be delivered to eternity with this God-love-being or nothingness.

the alternative is to believe that an all-powerful God created the universe and us with the foreknowledge that an angel would rebel and become the devil and lead many of his created humans, which He obstenibly loves, into eternal damnation and torture. No loving God would do such a thing, but that is what the Church is essentially saying, God created people (the unsaved) in order for them to go to hell with the devil?!

Don't worry about the unsaved tribes of the past or those of the present. God loves us all with the eternal blessings of life, as we approach the heart of our Savior. Down through the ages we are each allowed the choice to join Him or join the nothingness of the void.

Bubbaguy

jesse,

by now i hope (expect) that someone from this Sermon Index site has corresponded with you regarding your query. it is an important one.

i'm quite certain that those in correspondence with you may not have appreciated my comments and advised against them.

you should understand that i value the Bible greatly and am a Christian (Quaker) yet, i interpret the Bible in a considerably different manner. where many hold that the events of the Old Testament were factual, i hold that some of these are figurative and representational. thus, Adam represents mankind, and was not an individual. another example would be the Great Flood which covered the earth during Noah's time and killed all but his kin representing a devastating event winnowing mankind down to the very few people that genetic scientists now claim that all humans are descended from.

i believe many of the stories of the Bible were authored and recorded as representational accounts much in the way that parables were told by Jesus. in fact, i think He is pointing to this in His testimonies recorded in the New Testament.

by restricting Biblical accounts to being literally true, much of the meaning and intentions of the authors is lost.

biblical literalism is a crutch for those with weak faith.

bubbaguy

i hope you discuss this issue further with your pastor and others.

bubbaguy said

we are all undergoing multiple, progressive lifetimes in various circumstances of birth and becoming experienced in all that God's creation has to offer us

Where does Jesus speak about reincarnation and karma?

what many call evil is not an intelligent, malevolent being, but rather not-God, not-love, nothingness. and in the end we will be delivered to eternity with this God-love-being or nothingness.

So "nothing" tempted Jesus in the desert?

Down through the ages we are each allowed the choice to join Him or join the nothingness of the void.

So the "nothing" rich man burning in a lake of "nothingness" begging Abraham to send Lazarus to "nothingville" to drop some water on a "nothing's" tongue?

you should understand that i value the Bible greatly and am a Christian (Quaker) yet, i interpret the Bible in a considerably different manner

Sigh.

where many hold that the events of the Old Testament were factual, i hold that some of these are figurative and representational. thus, Adam represents mankind, and was not an individual. another example would be the Great Flood which covered the earth during Noah's time and killed all but his kin representing a devastating event winnowing mankind down to the very few people that genetic scientists now claim that all humans are descended from.

So, the Bible is part fact, part myth... and we must compromise its message and reinterpret it to "fit in" in with what intellectuals, scientists, and New Agers of every stripe believe.

by restricting Biblical accounts to being literally true, much of the meaning and intentions of the authors is lost.

No. The "meanings and intentions" are lost to "you", not us. The intellect cannot comprehend the BIble's truths without the aid of the Holy Spirit and a circumsized heart. I've tried and it nearly drove me mad.

biblical literalism is a crutch for those with weak faith.

Wrong again. Trying to mould God, Jesus, His prophets, and His Word to fit the world, science, and your personal "interpretations" is a crutch. Feel free to drive yourself mad by trying to use a flawed system (logic) designed by a flawed creature (man) to make sense of a flawed universe... but don't be asinine enough to think you can contemplate God, or His Word, into a box.

YOU fit into HIS plan. HE won't fit into yours.

You sure you're a Quaker? You've amalgamted science, religion, and New Age philosophy... I could swear you were a Theosophist or Freemason.

This is part of the reason for my thread "Concerning God's Grace". The message of salvation is more than preaching the message as we have wrongly been taught to do. It is to be about preaching the message of the Good News of Jesus Christ who ushered in a new way to live called the Kingdom of God, through Him as the head of this new Government. Many in the world wait to hear this message. They wait with prepared hearts because they have recognized Grace as presented them to their understanding and live according to it, however imperfect their endeavors. It is a heart issue and God foreknows who they are who have a heart for Him.

Jesus Said, "Go and make disciples". He never said to go and get people saved. It should be obvious that what I am saying is that they already are and the message given should be about the kingdom of God and its Leadership. We make the mistake of making the message to be about heaven and hell when to many, from God's perspective, it isn't. God wants son's and birthed into His kingdom, not just "saved" people with only fire insurance policies in their hand standing before Him in that day.

5 pointers would do well to embrace this for better understanding of their 5 points.

Orm

From evangelist Ray Comfort...

"Will people who have never heard the gospel all go to hell because they haven’t heard about Jesus Christ?"

No one will go to hell because they haven’t heard of Jesus Christ. The heathen will go to hell for murder, rape, adultery, lust, theft, lying, etc. Sin is not failing to hear the gospel. Rather, "sin is the transgression of the Law" (1 John 3:4). If we really care about the lost, we will become missionaries and take the good news of God’s forgiveness in Christ to them.

The first few chapters of Romans clears this up as stated earlier.

bubbaguy - Do you consider yourself to be a good person?

-Jim

To all that responded, I thank you for your consideration.

Several of you have mentioned the Holy Spirit. This is of essential concern to Quakers as the promise of Christ is that, where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be with us. Unprogrammed Quakers "wait upon the Lord" in silent, meditative worship and all are expected to minister to the group when moved to do so by the Holy Spirit. there is no clergy involved in these worship services, none is needed. (George Fox, one of the founders of the Religious Society of Friends (called Quakers) was a minister, self-taught, and many of religious education participate in the Society. We historically defer to elders in matters of controversy and contention, yet at times "stuborn" members have changed the beliefs of the whole. John Wollman, through a long travelling ministry, convinced the entire Society of Friends to abandon slavery, and it was soon after that the U.S. did so.

my prespective and point of view has been informed over the years through participation in Meeting for Worship as well as investigation of the world and through personal prayer and meditation. I have concluded that God would not create an archeological record that clearly displays sequential geological ages and an evolutionary fossil pattern of life as some kind of hoax upon man or a test to see if we will believe the Word or the geological evidence.

The record and other evidence shows humans emerging from the australeopithicus afarensis line of hominiods about 2 million years ago.

We also know that every culture of humans has had creation stories that are mythological, figurative, and have representational meanings bound up in them. These stories tell important truths about human nature and our relationship with the creation and Creator. Why should the stories of the Hebrews be any different or special?

I am convinced of the saving Grace of Christ's sacrifice because the Holy Spirit is present in worship and at other times, as promised by Christ. and the truths spoken by Jesus -- love your enemies!?! -- go beyond judgement and give us a glimpse of the perfection that is God the Father.

I will never believe that God would create the devil, which is what the conventional Christian church teaches us. the devil is a personification of evil which is something against Goodness, and Not the opposite, parallel of it. the spiritual universe is unipolar, and not bipolar (heaven and hell as equal opposites.) those convinced the existence of evil and who identify with the devil as real will expect eternal life in hell with the devil, but they will indeed weep and nash their teeth when they realize that at judgement, time comes to an end and they will simply be removed from it altogether, and it will be as if they never existed in the first place.

am i a good guy? i try, but like all i fail, here and there. i am trying to be sincere and open in approaching the spiritual world as well as the world of science. i try to live so that others benefit from what God has given me. i have worked on a drought relief, food distribution program in Africa, worked with Native Americans to get justice in the US and volunteered in many nonprofit, community projects.

in the end, no one is a "good guy", as we all come up short and need Grace. my problem with so much of what goes on at SI is that everything is rigid fundamentalism. it's a control game played by many in the clergy. i say, open your minds and spirits to the creation and the ever present Spirit and you will find your way. if you let a Christian pastor tell you that the theory of evolution is an evil idea produced to confuse those who love the Word of God, then religion is being used to dumb down and stifle the mind.

bubbaguy

ginnyrose wrote:
So, Bubba, do you have an point of reference that is unchanging? One that exists apart from human reasoning, logic?

ginnyrose

Great question, one I'd like to read and answer to because all I have read is human reasoning, much of what I don't find sincere. But that is just my human understanding....or perhaps something outside myself called, insight?

Orm

Jordan, here's a website with current info.

http://www.archaeologyinfo.com/evolution.htm

Ginnyrose, regarding an absolute to stand by, that is the love demonstrated by Jesus. to love those who hate you sounds kinda crazy, but it is a standand that I hope to be able to at least approach in life. knowing that i fail.

bubbaguy