I've just returned from the march in Washington to protest the so-called "surge" of additional troups, and the war in Iraq in general. Perhaps this has been discussed here before, let me know.
my question is, as Jesus was a pacifist and asked us to follow after Him, how can a Christian go to war?
Bub
Jesus was a pacifist
He was?
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me" (Luke 19:27).
Here goes my first comment on SI (though I've been around for a year)...
Thus far I've come to a non-violent position, but this is not to be called "pacisfism" because scripture teaches us to be active and not passive. This said, if the Lord leads one to "enlist" in active prayer everyday concerning a war or anything else, then it seems appropriate to be just as dedicated to that service as anyone who wars after the manner of the world. Our weapons are mightier than physical projectiles. Perhaps God will lead believers to volunteer four years and many hours of disciplined PT (not Physical Training, prayer time!) in the closet for these national situations.
Psalms 76:6-7
"At thy rebuke, O God of Jacob, both the chariot and horse are cast into a dead sleep.
Thou, even thou, art to be feared: and who may stand in thy sight when once thou art angry?"
I would appreciate some more views on this, I'm limited in understanding.
but this is not to be called "pacisfism" because scripture teaches us to be active and not passive.
Just on a technical note; you may be confusing pacifism with the notion of being passive. They are two different things.
Many pacifists are very active in many ways.
The question asked was how can a Christian go to war.
Acts 10 tells us about Cornelius, a Roman centurion, a devout man and one who feared God with all his household and gave alms generously to the people and prayed to God always.
God sent Peter to Cornelius and his household, the Holy Spirit fell on them and they were baptised.
As a centurion, he must have killed people in battle, and God still gave him the Holy Spirit.
So whether a Christian can go to war or not should be determined by what the scriptures say and not by popular opinion.
God bless.
bubbaguy wrote:how can a Christian go to war?
If someone came into my home and started killing my family, would I not be justified in stopping them by any means necessary? I would hate to be forced into that position, but I know how I would respond.
What if thousands attacked? Would we not raise an army of friends and family to fight them off? I would go to help my friends.
Would that not be war?
Just my 2 cents
God bless
TJ
I have a lot of questions about this and do not take a strong stance in my position but...
What if a Christian from one country went to war and killed a Christian from another country...
How could that possibly be ordained by God? it seems compltely opposed to Christ in every sense.
In Christ - Jim
TJ, self defense is not going to war. this is different than having war visited upon us. i am not arguing about the defense of our homes or homeland, but rather an adventurous foreign policy of military internvetion. Can a Christian enlist or willingly participate in this?
Bub
I don't believe in war as something us Christians should participate in. It's up to you to ultimately to figure this out though. Read the NT in the realm of the New Covenant & pray... I believe Jesus was a pacifist in the sense that he would never have participated in a war if he was even drafted by law. We fight a spiritual battle, not a physical one. Self-defense?-- Turn the other cheek. Our sword is not in metal but in the Word.
Jordan
If I knew attackers were "on the way" I would pray about fleeing as the early Christians did from Jerusalem, or as Paul was let out in a basket... take my family and high tail to somewhere else...
Richard Wurmbrand never raised military arms against the invading Russians. He was cunning in his evangelism and it cost him 14 years in prison but he never raised a fist.
I understand the "defend the family" concerns, and I cannot say for sure what I would do in the moment, but I know i don't have blood lust or desire to harm people, so I trust the Lord to speak clearly in the moment when it does happen.
I actually had guys sneak into my apartment a few months ago to do drugs (I know, bizarre, and I live in a "safe area")... I was reading a Spurgeon sermon to my friend, a female, and I told her quietly to stay in the room. I went out and asked them what they were doing and to leave immediately... unbelievably they didn't leave and instead became threatening.. I was praying and called out Julia. I asked them to step out of the way so I could leave with her and they let us go. After I was outside we called the police and they came for the guys, it was so wierd and pretty scary, but praise God it didn't get violent. All of this is to say that I had a knife in my hand and out of sight the whole time, asking God again and again, "Lord, whatever you say, I'm willing."
Thank God, He leads us not into temptations but delivers a means of escape!
This whole argument makes me mad. It shows us how little we as a whole know of the new testament, its composition, and the historical period in which it takes place.
Romans 13 is a chapter devoted on how obedience to a government or ruling authority is appropriate. Being a soldier is (maybe I'm nutz, here) a manner of servicing that authority, which is allowed (mayhaps even shaped) by God. So which one is it? Not do what a legitimate authority (which God says I should respect) asks of me or not do what isn't explicitely stated?
Of course the NT is full of references as to how we as individuals should deal with civil manners, but I don't remember seeing a sentence forbidding men to be soldiers. Anywhere, as a matter of fact. It's just not there.
Maybe I shouldn't mention this, but Israel didn't even have a legitimate army during the New Testament era. And there isn't enough history in the book for them to have developed one and fought an insurrection against a powerhouse Roman empire.
So why ask the question? Isn't it kind of stupid? Isn't it legitimately disrespectful, which we have in the very same text been warned against being? I mean, let's shed hairs here. Talk about hypocritical.
This whole argument makes me mad. It shows us how little we as a whole know of the new testament, its composition, and the historical period in which it takes place.
I was in the Marines. I come from a military family. My ancestors were involved in all the major wars since the inception of this country we live in.
I agree with the previous post 110%. Especially the part I quoted above.
Conversations like this show how most believers are ignorant of scripture, or choose to ignore scripture and rely on their own opinions because they dont like what God has to say. It's the age old question from the Garden... "Hath God said?"
People who believe Christians should not be involved in wars or in military service also usually believe that if someone comes into your house and threatens to rape your wife and kill your children... we should turn the other cheek. What hogwash. God... the same God who says He will avenge the blood of the martyrs, does not expect godly men to sit back and do nothing.
David was a man of war. Yet, God said he was a man after His own heart.
Joshua was a man of war. Look at the name "[b]Jesus
Bad things happen when good men do nothing. If good men did nothing all down thru history you would not even have the luxery to sit at your computer and pontificate about such things.
Krispy
Here is a long thread dealing with this topic.
[image][img]http://mud.mm-a8.yimg.com/image/4145384757
In General "Stonewall Jackson", God found a true man who would stand in the gap. Both strong and tender, the motto of his life was, "Lord what wilt thou have me to do?" As fervent in the field of battle, so was Jackson on his knees in prayer. "He was a man of prayer, accustomed in all he did to ask the divine blessing and guidance. His aid said that he could always tell when a battle was near at hand by seeing the General get up a great many times in the night to pray." General Jackson did not simply pray, he fervently prayed. The following story gives us some insight in the passion of his prayers. It was told the Rev. William Brown, "the truth is sir, that 'old Jack' (Jackson) is crazy. Why, I frequently meet him out in the woods walking back and forth muttering to himself incoherent sentences and gesturing wildly, at such times he seems utterly oblivious of my presence and of everything else."
"A friend was once conversing with Jackson about the difficulty of obeying the scripture injunction, 'pray without ceasing,' and Jackson insisted that we could so accustom ourselves to it, that it could be easily obeyed. When we take our meals there is the grace. When I take a drink of water, I always pause, as my palate receives the refreshment, to lift up my heart to God in thanks and prayer for the water of life. Whenever I drop a letter into the box at the post office I send a petition along with it for God's blessings upon its mission and upon the person to whom it is sent. When I break the seal of a letter just received I stop to pray to God that He may prepare me for its contents and make it a message of good. When I go to my classroom and await the arrangement of the cadets in their places, that is my time to intercede with God for them. And so of every other familiar act of the day." Though a man of superior abilities, Jackson humbly recognized his need for JESUS in everything he did.
As a general in the Confederate Army, "Stonewall Jackson" had a profound influence over his men. It was his holy and prayerful example that contributed to the great revival among the Southern troops. By midsummer of 1863, revival had spread to all the Confederate armies. A chaplain of the 26th Alabama Regiment said that his unit alone averaged 100 converts a week for several weeks. During this same time another chaplain declared that, 'modern history presents no example of an army so nearly converted. A third of all soldiers in the field were men of prayer and members of some fellowship. J. W. Jones suggested that 150,000 conversions took place in Lee's Army alone. It was this revival that no doubt prepared the South for the humiliation that was to follow their eventual defeat, but best of all the revival prepared thousands of young and old alike to meet Christ in eternity. Truly, General Jackson impacted our history through the power of prayer.
What is our greatest need today in our morally fallen nation? We need a tenacious, tender, tearful and Holy Ghost bold army of true MEN! Oh God, make us MEN!
- David Smithers
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