The End of England

With new laws now being introduced to allow homosexual and lesbian couples, the right to adopt children and then yesterday, with the Government now permitting Manchester to be the first major UK city to enjoy unlimited gaming rights, the End of England is fast upon us.

When a nation deviates from the will and purpose of God, all out apostasy and wickedness will only increase and increase.

The following article, although written some months ago, nonetheless is right up to date, when concerning just how bad the voice of Christianity is in the UK!

http://www.excatholicsforchrist.com/articles.php?PageURL=The%20End%20of%20England.htm

ask yourself this question: what western english speaking nation has opposed the State of Israel more vociferously than the UK?

and there your answer lays.

I am not sure what the question was but I strongly disagree with the answer. I am an Englishman but totally unpatriotic, so I write as a reader of history and of the Bible when I say this is a foolish and unscriptural attitude.

I have great sympathy for the Israelis although I don't identify that nation state with the people of the ancient promises. I admire their industry, tenacity and commitment to the citizens. I have walked through Auschwitz and Madenik and I ache for what has happened to this group of people, but to interpret history along the single line of 'how we treated the Jews' is foolish.

All nations and empires will come and go, except the one. Their coming and going is not determined by their foreign policy towards a middle eastern nation state.

Read the article and also Great Britain has fallen.

It brought tears to my eyes, it really did.

You said you feel pessimistic about the future of Britian. With good reason, I might add.

I expect to see God's judgment on this nation before I see revival.

I pray for revival, I know God can do it, I don't know if He will.

Why should He spare us when we have spat in His face? Metaphorically speaking, but in a sense we have.

I do hope God can forgive us.

The book of Daniel tells us about Daniel's prayers for himself and the nation of Israel when the 70 years of exile were almost over.

We've been exiled from God by our own doing, by deliberately palming off His word and writing our own laws.

Well, what you sow you reap, and when man sets up his own laws in defiance of God's laws, expect hell on earth.

I can see it.

Sorry I can't be more optimistic, but all I can say is pray.

God bless.

I have great sympathy for the Israelis although I don't identify that nation state with the people of the ancient promises.

I agree.

If I understand correctly, the promises made to Abraham were to him and his Seed. Seed being singular not plural (not to Seeds). The Seed is Christ.

Since Christians are in Christ, we are sons of God and Abraham's offspring and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3)

I get an uneasy feeling when I hear someone quote Genesis 12:3 speaking of the modern Jewish state:
"I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

This was spoken to Abraham and his Seed (Christ).

I am an Englishman but totally unpatriotic

hey, So would I be if I were English 8-)

Seriously though, I give a hearty amen to your post. righteousness will exalt any nation and sin be a reproach to the same. But the only one to stand eternaly is the the one of which it is said:

the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never by destroyed, and his kingdom shall not be delivered up to another people: and it shall break in pieces, and shall consume all these kingdoms: and itself shall stand for ever.

i read history too ... love it ... and i have to say i find Europe's the scariest after their supposed conversion to Christianity ... It's seems almost unfathomable to me how, alledgedly in the name/faith of Jesus Christ, whether Catholic and Protestant, so many horrible things were done, particularly by the ruling class, and social and business elite ... i mean how in the world, by the Book, could the Crusades ever have been justified, and then later particularly from Henry VIII's less than sanctified reasoning for converting to Protestantism, things seem to have went from bad to worse ... That's why i posted this thread ...

[b]CHRISTIANITY: Abused for Power, Personal Purpose & Prosperity ...[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14398&forum=35#111139

As a descendant of Ham i can share in bro Neil's obvious pain to what English (European & American) history may cause him ... Not saying this of bro Neil post, but i can tell you that before Christ i disdained ALL white people, the English in particular, the slave holding American founding fathers that came out of them, and all the subsequent European immigrants that came after, for black folks scarred legacy of slavery and societal ostracism ... But after Christ i eventually learned to put all that behind me, and dwell in and on a peace/freedom that surpasses all earthly understanding ... Our battle, tho still played out amongst visible men, is not one of flesh and blood, but of far more sinister powers behind the scenes, and i try to keep in mind that all the evil transpired is abled because of what Adam did in ceeding his authority to satan, and what God allows and/or institutes toward the culmination of His divine plan ...

i know for this Christian, one once blindly captive and highly reactive to a painful racial past, that scripture which says "Whom the Son has set free - is free indeed", sums it all up to where He's brought me now ... Now when the devil comes at me with one of his own, to bait me to past reactions of a painful past, Holy Ghost gives me the interlude of peace i need, so that He can reply thru me in a way pleasing to Christ ... i'm not saying i'm perfect everytime, but it's been a long time since i've had to repent for open expletives (tho i've sometimes had to for the ones i've thought) ...

i agree with bro Neil's assessment of "I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you, I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you" as still being in tact ... Won't debate about it with anyone else who does'nt, or with anyone who believes in "Replacement Theology" ... Been there, done that, and it always seem to end where it started, no one convinced otherwise ... But i do want to comment on this statement by bro Neil ...

"Now my country America might be sliding towards apostasy,with our wealth and arrogance of empire but you guys over there are in deep trouble, empty neglected churches, deep dark covens of witches,wiccans, satanic worship, and I love the UK, deeply, but one can feel the evil in a place like the areas around Dartmoor, etc."

In listening to the history of REVIVAL, i believe it was bro Orr who said that if a nation misses two consecutive periods of REVIVAL it spins out into serious spiritual oblivion, implying what has happened to Britain ... i know in my praying to God i ask Him if that's what's wrong there, if He'd please not let this happen to America ... i know we're in serious trouble spiritually already, as well i know any saint excusing the obvious is definitely a part of the problem, but i refuse to believe that He'll not hear and answer those praying against the gourds ...

i've not been to Britain, but i know saints who have been there and they report the same thing, that there's something of a spiritual gloom hanging over it ... i've read statistics about its spiritual decline, and had the unpleasant (tho educational) experience of my company being acquired and ruled over by young British management for five years ... Some of the things, aside from their thinking we Yanks were the dumbest dolts on the planet, that stood out was their total disdain for American religiosity, my blatant beliefs in Christ being spoken in the workplace, and that we Yanks wouldn't be as blatantly dishonest in business practice as they required ...

Bro Ron's statement made me think of this ... Tho unsaved, they too were extremly unpatriotic, not casually as so many American youthful, but aggressively so ... They hated Blair, the Royals and anything old, especially people, but they were full of themselves as if they were the crown princes of Japheth - Englishmen - especially when it came to Football ... We got Football fanatics/drunks here too, but not like these dude ... i don't think i've ever met a group of guys so snide, pompous and proud in their ethnicity, and it really got them fighting mad when the guys blew them off as ridiculous ...

Now were owned by a Canadian company ...

i found this article from the same site to be equally as telling ...

[b]GREAT BRITAIN HAS FALLEN! [/b]
http://www.excatholicsforchrist.com/index.php?PageURL=decline.htm

[b]Pray for your country saints, where ever it is that God's placed you! ... We all know that just because we've fallen, don't mean that we can't get back up ... 1 John 1: 9 works for an individual, or a nation of individuals, repenting before Him ...[/b]

Blessings in Christ Jesus ... :-D

These self-termed "ancient promises" that you reference underline to me, that underneath it all, that all your great knowledge and all your great learning, is of the letter, and not the Spirit.

"Now my country America might be sliding towards apostasy,with our wealth and arrogance of empire but you guys over there are in deep trouble, empty neglected churches, deep dark covens of witches,wiccans, satanic worship, and I love the UK, deeply, but one can feel the evil in a place like the areas around Dartmoor, etc."

bro Ron

you said:

I have great sympathy for the Israelis although I don't identify that nation state with the people of the ancient promises. I admire their industry, tenacity and commitment to the citizens. I have walked through Auschwitz and Madenik and I ache for what has happened to this group of people, but to interpret history along the single line of 'how we treated the Jews' is foolish.

i agree with you to some degree, there is a difference between Israelis and Israelites, never in scripture are His chosen people ever called Israelis...and some of the Israelis will tell you "i'm not an Israelite" however i wonder if bro Bartle has a point in that mistreating Jews has consequences...maybe, maybe not.

All nations and empires will come and go, except the one. Their coming and going is not determined by their foreign policy towards a middle eastern nation state.

not to be trite but i find it interesting that every empire which did mistreat the israelites suffered destruction or some other cataclysm...Egypt, Assyria, Babylon and Rome...perhaps there is some connection between mistreating Jews in the sense of Israelites rather than Israelis and the death of these empires...

brethren
God in times past has always, even before utterly abasing His people Israel, said that the land they were on would be their forever. we can't ignore that part of it. i tend to agree however that the nation state of Israel isn't the people of the covenant but all the same that promise which God made and repeated still stands. Perhaps the promise is to the seed of Abraham, namely the Jews who come to Christ and are born of Him? Seed and seeds doesn't (to me anyway) denote one person vs a nation.

I get an uneasy feeling when I hear someone quote Genesis 12:3 speaking of the modern Jewish state:

me too, i fear that the saints don't know the difference between an Israelite and an Israeli...as a result we partake of the iniquity of Israel by aiding them as opposed to preaching the gospel because at this time, if any Jew dies without Christ, they end up in hell as does anyone else who dies without Christ.

philologos wrote:

These self-termed "ancient promises" that you reference underline to me, that underneath it all, that all your great knowledge and all your great learning, is of the letter, and not the Spirit.

Neil,
Are you the Neil Giuntoli (neilgin) who was removed from the site for your intemperate posts?

uh oh... :-?

bro Bartle

i wonder what you make of the prophecy in Zechariah (i believe, i will look it up later ind insert it here) in which if i remember right, God will gather up the nations and bring them against Jerusalem and they will take it, raping women and all the other barbarisms of the ancient conquerers like assyria. Perhaps this final destruction of Jerusalem will bring about the conversion of Israeli to Israelite because there is a difference. i certainly agree that the land belongs to Israel and that promise is forever, however it was made to the Israelites who kept God's commands and statutes, can we say the same of the present state of Israel? or should we expect another abasing of Jerusalem like in times past when Israel went whoring after the world and its idol?

some things to think about perhaps?

edit

the scripture is Zechariah chapt 14 and reads as follows:

[b]1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. [/b]

evidently this has yet to happen because the word continues:

[b]3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; F44 for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. [/b]

this seems to be just before the return of our Lord judging from the mention of the splitting of the Mount of Olives. then again there could be a considerable amount of time between the sacking of Jerusalem by the nations, and the return of our Lord.

you know the answer to that question, and the only reason you ask it is an attempt to try to humiliate me.