Am I getting to know the Bible or the God of the Bible?

Im a bit frustrated. Here is where I'm at:

I really resolved to set my face to seeking God, and thats what i did for a while, but seeking God (to really find Him and enjoy His intimate presence) seems at least to me to be so hard, and so gradually my seeking of God has deteriorated to just reading the Bible lots.

I am coming to love the Bible more and more and am learning a lot about God, but i still do not feel that it is helping much in actually knowing Him better personally on an intimate level. Does anyone understand?

Reading the Bible lots is great and i believe in that, but i fear that if all iv got is lots of bible knowlegde i will just become a pharisee.

I guess my point is it seems so much easier to get to know the Bible than it does to really get to know God.

I was challenged last night in Mark 1:35 by the example of our Lord who rose early in them morning before sunrise after a busy night of ministry to go to a solitary place to pray. It struck me that prayer is more important than reading the bible. And i mean prayer where we just seek to be with God and know His smile and nearness (not talking about supplication or intercession). I noticed that it doesn't say that our Lord went to read the scrolls, but that he went to pray. He went to draw near to His Father and be with Him.

I am not saying we shouldn't be reading the Bible, not at all (I know that our Lord had it all in His memory from a young age, and we should love and study the scriptures too), but just that i feel dry this month because i have been getting to know my Bible better but not taking time to draw near to God.

Can anyone sympathize with that? Can anyone give me some godly advice on how to truly set about seeking God?

I sympathize with you. There are times in my life when it seems like a wall is before me. I have learned to press thru it. The psalms say, I will bless the Lord, trying not to take things out of context, Jesus said after sending out the 70. These only come out by fasting and prayer. At times, especially when it is dry, I have been impresed to fast and set a time aside for just sitting before His feet. Be still and know that I am God. I am learning too. Press in

Here4Him,

Yes, I can totally relate to what you are saying. The dryness you are feeling is God's way of creating thirst for Life--Jesus Himself. I've been a Christian now for nearly 18 years and have studying the Bible in many different ways. It has not been until the last couple years (especially last year) that I have begun to realize that my focus was on doctrines of the Bible more than the Lord Himself.

A great help to me in seeing this so crystally clear now is a Bible teacher by the name of Ed Miller. He has a number of sermons here on SermonIndex (under Other Speakers). I would highly recommend a listen to "The Revelation Of Christ Within Scripture" and "Christ is Everything". These messages really underscore anything I would say to develop such a rich and inviting prospect of using the Bible to see a living Lord and feasting upon what He shows about Himself.

The key, I find, to enjoying the Lord is seeing Him by total reliance upon God's Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit greatly delights to show me Christ (that is, the glory of the Lord, as 2 Cor. 3:18 says). But I must first turn with all my heart to the Holy Spirit (as it says there in the preceding verses) and the veil will be lifted and I will see Christ in a transforming way.

Jesus in John 5 contrasted the Scriptures to Himself. The problem is when we see the Bible as the source of life, when in reality, God intended it to be an instrument to testify to the Lord Jesus and we MIGHT COME TO HIM TO FIND LIFE. In any study of the Bible, if we do not come to the Lord Jesus, we will not have life. Life is not a thing, but a Person--Jesus Christ. "I am the way, the truth, and the LIFE" (John 14:6). There is a freshness of the written word that excites my heart and enlivens my righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit fills my heart with a fervent love for God (Rom. 5:5).

One last thing that has aided me greatly in coming and seeing the Lord Jesus in Scripture. Our attitude in which we come is extremely important. The pure in heart are the ones that shall see (a word in the Greek which means not casual observance but wide-eyed wonder) God (Matt. 5:8). When Jesus healed the blind physically, there are also principles of seeing Him spiritually. The story of the healing of the blind man in Mark 8 is an excellent illustration of how we are to be in coming to the Lord. If I see myself as a blind man, begging the Lord (as this crowd did on his behalf) for a need to see Him, He will respond the same way--eyesight will be granted. Our God is very gracious and DELIGHTS to open our eyes to see Him. Jesus rejoices in the Spirit when the Father reveals the Son to babes (Luke 10:21). I can testify that each day as I have come in this needy, dependent attitude to see the Lord, God has met me and shown me Himself in a transforming way. Thank God for His grace. I pray you may allow this dryness and thirst to come to none other than Christ Himself for a drink (John 7:37-39).

Your brother in Christ,

Ken

Does anyone understand?

I am not by nature a disciplined man, not by any stretch of one's imagination but the Lord is making me into a disciplined man bit by bit. It's a rather painful process. I didn't realize my heart has been so resistant to this.

The sin that the Holy Spirit has put His finger on is using reading the word as an excuse not to do something else the Lord has asked me to do. For example, I hear help your wife with the dishes or some other chore around the house and I use to say is that the Holy Spirit? Call your brother or your sister and pray with them and my heart's response was well Lord I've got to read the scriptures.

The Lord has a place for each of us to read his word and meditate on it. However we can't (or I should just say I can't) substitute what God has asked for with something that is more comfortable to me. The Holy Spirit asked me this morning on my way to work "Is substitutional obedience really obedience?" and I had to say to no Lord it's not, it's really disobedience. Once we are no longer walking in the Spirit, the scriptures are no longer quickened to us and they become like cardboard.

At one time, I used to substitute obedience by listening to sermon after sermon sometimes as many as 8-10 a day. I can't get away with that any longer.

I would encourage you to press in and ask Jesus what He wants you to do and then simply do it. There's no real substitute for reading the scriptures and private times of prayer but the Lord has other things for you to do as well and as you do those things the joy of the Lord will well up in your heart. It's happened to me and Jesus is faithful to correct us when we're out of line.

I thank Jesus for his kindness and patience in teaching us how to walk with Him. Blessings to you my friend.

Dear Here4Him,

Can anyone give me some godly advice on how to truly set about seeking God?

Here is an unheard of challenge: Stop reading the bible and do nothing but seek the Lord's Will for an entire week. Instead, do these exact things:

1) Pray often throughout each day. Pray in devotion by delegating time to prayer quietly. Then pray as if Jesus is always near you, by talking to Jesus quietly in your mind in every situation. Tell Jesus everything and be honest, just as if He was your best friend. Admit your weaknesses and confess your sins. In your prayers, give up everything to Jesus as an offering. Give your life, your money, your time...and believe that Christ owns all of it. This means that you do not control it. Sacrifice your will to God. Awake each morning and offer your day to Him. Say in your heart, "This day is yours. Whatever happens is in your control. May your will be done."

2) Fast anything that keeps your mind away from the Lord. You know what keeps you away from God. Fast it. And this is important: Fast because you are seeking Jesus, and not because you are seeking God's gifts like righteousness.

3) Do everything as if you are doing it for the Lord. This means that any task, anything you do, imagine that it was commanded by the Lord. If you are doing laundry, imagine you are washing God's clothes. If you doing school work, imagine God is your teacher. If you are at work, imagine that God is your boss.

4) If anyone asks you for anything, give it to that person regardless of who they are even if they are a huge sinner. Yes, if on the way to the store, you have $20 in your pocket (the last $20 you have) and a drunk asks you for it, give it to him. If you are fasting television, but a friend or spouse asks you to watch a movie with them, do it. Do everything a person asks of you and trust that Jesus will keep you from sin. Be a servant to all and give freely.

5) Acknowledge the presence of Jesus at all times. He is with you 100% of the time. Acknowledge this. Talk to Him in your mind. Imagine He is standing next to you. Remember that He is watching you at every minute of every day. Acknowledge His presence. Invite Him into your life always.

6) Do not worry about anything!!! Don't worry about money. Do not worry about sin. Do not worry about what you are supposed to do. Just do what feels natural to your heart. If your nature has truly been changed by Jesus, then it is your nature to do God's Will. You will know when you are acting according to the flesh and not of the Spirit when you lack peace. The Spirit brings peace. If you have any anxiety about anything, then crucify that thing on the cross. Sacrifice it to Jesus.

7) Be Thankful!! Thank Jesus for what you have. Do not worry about what you don't have. Ask Jesus for what you need and trust that He will provide in His time. Leave everything in His hands and in His control. When Christ is in total control of you, you will naturally know what to do. There will be no struggle over what you should do. You will feel united with the Lord. You will have an internal peace and confidence about it.

8) Be willing to suffer for God's glory, and do not take control of yourself during trials. Bad things will happen. God will let them happen. These are done for you benefit. When a person is truly seeking the Lord, faith will be challenged. So when bad things happen, embrace this fact: God is in control. Let God care for you. Be careful not to take control of the situation.

Do these things an entire week without reading your bible. Instead, be controlled by the Spirit. Renew your mind by giving up and letting go of everything you know. Empty yourself, and let Christ fill you. Desire nothing for yourself but only God's Will.

This is my challenge for you. After the week is up, come back and tell us what happened. Have you grown closer to God? Did He speak to you at all? How was your life different?

May Christ be yours,
In Christ with love,

Blake

Am I getting to know the Bible or the God of the Bible?

This question illustrates perfectly the core of my message and the book I am going to write. Christianity today calls the bible "The Word of God." And yet, the bible clearly establishes in John 1:1 that the Word is God. If the Word is God, and the bible is the Word, then the bible would also be God. But the bible is not God. Reading the bible is not how we know God in truth. Reading the bible is not spending time with God.

The Word of God is Jesus Christ. We can only know God through Jesus Christ. The bible documents the testimony of Jesus Christ. It is the testimony of Jesus Christ. However, Jesus is God. Jesus is the Word of God. There is a big difference here, and this difference is plaguing the Church.

So many Christians think they can know God and His will by reading the bible. This is wrong. By doing this, a person is turning the bible into an idol. The bible then becomes a false idol. The bible is not God Himself. If anyone wants to know God in truth, they have to be united as one with Jesus Christ. Jesus is not a story documented in a book. He is a real and living God who dwells in Heaven.

Am I getting to know the bible or the God of the bible? When we read the bible, we should be learning about God. We read the bible to know about God, however, to know God we must commune with Him in Spirit. If any of you wanted to know about me, you could read a book. If any of you wanted to know me, you would need to meet me in person. If you want to meet God in person, you need to be born again and commune with His Spirit.

I am not saying we should not read the bible, or that the bible is false. The bible came from God. The bible is the testimony of Jesus as given by the Holy Spirit through men. However, we must be careful calling the bible the Word. Yes, it came from God. However, it is not equal with Christ. And if we are going to teach the bible which says "the Word was God," we must be careful to teach the bible is also the Word. People think we are saying, "the bible was God." The bible is not God. This is dangerous. People will become confused and even more lost. There is an immense danger here that causing the Church to fall away from truth.

When will the Church see this? When we she turn back to truth?

I submit this for everyone to pray over.

In Christ with love,
Blake

Wow Blake,
You just put into words concerns that have been floating around my head for quite awhile. It is confusing to hear both the Bible and God spoken of as "the Word."

There's this "religious" fear that paralyzes me, it keeps me from facing these concerns:

1. If the Bible is God somehow, then there is something fishy going on, given the discrepancies between translations and even in the Bible itself. I'm not talking major, doctrine changing discrepancies, just little things which would cast a strange doubt on the Bible if it were God (Don't get me wrong, the Bible is divine - there is no book like it. Any personal "revelation" should line up with the Bible.)

2. We are usually directed to the Bible as the solution by our leaders, but the Bible points to God - that's why it helps. Could it really be possible for a sinful man like me to know God - even to communicate with Him and not become a heretic? The modern church seems to think that communicating with God without a Bible in your hand is deception for sure.

The Bible is a second hand account of other people's first hand encounters with God.

The Bible itself hasn't been canonized that long. Somehow, the early church got along without a complete Bible.

I'm not satisfied with idolizing the Bible as God, I want eternal life - "to know God."

Bless you Blake and may God grant you wisdom with your book.

Brian

Thanks everyone for your replies. I found a lot of it helpful. 'Death to Self', the idea of 'substitutional obedience, rings true to my life, and your right that is just disobedience. Very Challenging, how even good and 'spiritual' things like listening to loads of sermons on here can actually be sin to us because we are not doing the will of God!

Blake, thank you for your advice. Interesting challenge- pretty radical my brother! I am not sure about fasting the Bible for a week. Can't i do all the stuff you say and still read the Bible too!

Am I getting to know the bible or the God of the bible? When we read the bible, we should be learning about God. We read the bible to know about God, however, to know God we must commune with Him in Spirit. If any of you wanted to know about me, you could read a book. If any of you wanted to know me, you would need to meet me in person. If you want to meet God in person, you need to be born again and commune with His Spirit.

That is helpful. I think the secret is to still read the Word but then also have those times of communion in Spirit with the Lord Jesus. I experienced that to some degree late last night and it was beautiful, very refreshing to my thirsty soul! All i did was just kneel in His presence, and i din't say anything (or hardly anything), i just knelt and thought on Him, and silently adored Him in my heart, then I felt like i received something of His touch, of His life, in the stillness, and in that moment He became more real to me than in just reading the Bible, and yet sum of the passages i had read in the Bible recently (or already had in my memory) the Holy Spirit used to help me to 'see' and fellowship with Jesus.

This must become the priority of my life. If i happen to over sleep and only have say 15 mins in the morning before i have to leave the house, i think it would be better for me to spend that time in 'communion' with Jesus, receiving from His life, drinking Him in. Don't you agree?

Oh and finally, thank you to Ken for pointing me to the Ed Miller sermons. I listened to the 'Christ is everything' sermon yesterday, and that has helped me a lot, and has been instrumental in my focusing more on the Person of our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ. So thanks brother- it has really blessed me!

Well, bless you all. Above all else, lets always make time to behold the glory of the Lord in the face of Christ Jesus on a spirit to spirit level. I pray that God may always keep us from a dry and academic Christianity. May we come to delight in and know the blessed second Person of the trinity, the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ more and more each day. Anything else in Christianity is not profitable that doesn't help me to know and love Christ more and more. Amen

Here4Him,
You are very wise not to feel comfortable about
fasting from the Word. You never seperate yourself from the Word of God to know Him more.
Psalm 119:130 tells us "The entrance of thy words
giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple"
2Tim. 2:15 says " Study to show thyself approved
unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth"
Timothy was told by Paul in 2Tim. 3:15-17
"And that from a child thou hast known the holy
scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16.All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:17. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works"
Then in 2Tim. 4:1-2 Paul says, "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ,
who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2.Preach the Word; be
instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine"
How is Timothy to do all these things? You got it, through "The Word"
Never, never ever let someone convince you to
fast from His Word. Those who would give such
advice should put their hand on their mouth and
repent, for they are treading on Holy Ground.

pastorfrin

in the stillness, and in that moment He became more real to me

I have never experienced a time where I felt closer to Jesus than when He used me to do His work. When we are completely surrendered unto Christ, so that He may work through us by the pleasure of His good will, then we have truly become one with the Lord.

To truly know God is be completely surrendered to Jesus Christ. This is the only way to know God. There is no other gate by which the sheep may enter. Anyone who tries to enter by any other gate, including scripture, is a thief.

I pray, my brother, you may know this in truth by Christ working in you.

With love,
Blake

I want to know the bible so I can know the god of the bible!!

Here4Him, Jesus says,
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" John 6:63

pastorfrin

Do these things an entire week without reading your bible. Instead, be controlled by the Spirit. Renew your mind by giving up and letting go of everything you know. Empty yourself, and let Christ fill you. Desire nothing for yourself but only God's Will.

Must agree with pastorfrin, there is no other way to put this than to say that this piece of advice that is quoted above is from the pit of hell. DO NOT TAKE IT!

If there are any doubts would recommend listening to this sermon from Keith Daniel...[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=4633]The Word of God[/url]

In Christ,

Ron

Dear Here4Him,

quote]
Here4Him wrote:

I experienced that to some degree late last night and it was beautiful, very refreshing to my thirsty soul! All i did was just kneel in His presence, and i din't say anything (or hardly anything), i just knelt and thought on Him, and silently adored Him in my heart, then I felt like i received something of His touch, of His life, in the stillness, and in that moment He became more real to me than in just reading the Bible, and yet sum of the passages i had read in the Bible recently (or already had in my memory) the Holy Spirit used to help me to 'see' and fellowship with Jesus.

[size=x-small][color=000099][font=Georgia]As I was reading through this thread some thoughts came to mind. When I got to your second post I was overjoyed to find you had taken my advice! So now that you don't need it here it is!

Wait on the Lord quietly, do not pray in the sense of asking anything of Him, rather, meditate on His goodness and grace and mercy. Humbly offer up a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving. As we worship and adore our Lord and Saviour the Holy Spirit comes o make the manifest presence of God known to us. There is nothing that can compare to this anywhere. It is there we understand why Martha was reproved and Mary honored.

A word of caution. I have been guilty of seeking the experience and not Him. When this happens, the "formula" doesn't work, for God knows our hearts.

There are of course other times when we feel as though we are "doing everything right" and still we don't sense His presence. Sometimes it is simply God testing our faith, other times there is some sin we failed to recognize and confess. Sometimes it is a matter of letting go of some perceived offense and forgiving the offender.

As I mentioned, now that you don't need it, I hope this helps!

In His Love,

Doug

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Thanks you brothers for your godly advice and counsel. Pastor Frin, and brother Ron I thank you for your concern about me departing from right path in seeking to find it. Brother Doug what you said was helpful, and so i printed it out to remind me in the future.

May the Lord bless you all brothers as together we all, I trust are seeking to know and love the Lord Jesus Christ more. May we continue to encourage each other to seek Christ and to focus on Christ, throught the scriptures and by His Spirit. Lets not get too caught up in debating other doctrines (other than when for Christ's sake we have to defend the truth), but as much as we can lets look to the Lord Jesus Christ. Look and live!

The greatest problem with the Church in America is that she made the bible equal with Christ, and used her own interpretation to control other men. This is why her womb will be made barren, and her light will go out.

this piece of advice that quoted above is from the pit of hell. DO NOT TAKE IT!

You say this, because you are deceived. Are you going to condemn the apostle Paul also, for giving such advice? Paul said scripture was "profitable", not necessary. In Romans 12:1-2, Paul says we will be able to test and approve what God's Will is by offering our bodies as living sacrifices and being transformed by the renewing of our mind. Are we to condemn Paul for such advice?

What man can transform Himself? Only Jesus, who is the true Word of God, can divide soul and spirit. Only Christ can renew the mind of any man.

When scripture speaks of the word, it is speaking about Christ (not scripture). The bible has been greatly misinterpreted because of this. I preach Christ, the true Word of God, and no other.

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" John 6:63

Yes indeed, the words that proceeded out of the mouth of Jesus were the very Word of God. However, the bible was not written by Jesus. The bible is a recording of those words. They are not the actual words.

Would you say the audio recording of a music performance (CD) is equal to the actual event (concert)?

The bible is a testimony of Jesus Christ as given by the Holy Spirit through men. It is not Christ Himself.

In John 5:39-40 (NIV), Jesus was quoted as saying "You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."

Has the Church become so much like the Pharisees that they cannot see the truth? Will she not goto Christ for truth?

The Church in America has become dependent on the bible, claiming to know Christ because of the bible. This is false. No man can know Jesus from reading the bible. We can only know Christ by going to Him, the real and living Christ in Heaven, and by being transformed.

However, this lie has propagated largely because in academia, we think of knowledge as information. To "know" something is to have information about it. However, this is far from true knowledge. True knowledge is intimate. The greek word for "know" is "Ginosko" which was a "Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman." This word was used in Matthew 7:23, where Jesus was quoted as saying, "I never knew you." True knowledge of Christ comes by being controlled by the Holy Spirit. When a person gives themselves to Jesus as a sacrifice, Christ is then free to enter in and transform them. By this, their mind is renewed and they have true knowledge that impacts not only the mind but a person's actions as well.

But the Church has sinned by teaching lies. The Church teaches that a person may know Christ by reading the bible. Christians in America are dependent on the bible. They do not understand the bible, but have turned it into absolute law. They have become like the Pharisees seeking truth apart from God. The bible is not the Word of God. Jesus Christ is the Word of God. Jesus Christ is the truth, and the only way to the Father.

Those who would give such
advice should put their hand on their mouth and
repent, for they are treading on Holy Ground.

Are you going to condemn also those who have not had access to a bible? Before the protestant reformation, the common Christian did not have access to the bible. They had to rely heavily on the Spirit.

And what of those in other countries who worship Christ without ever having read a bible? There are active Churches in countries like Madagascar who have yet to have a bible translated into their language? What of them?

I tell Christians to fast their bible, in the name of Jesus Christ, because they have become too dependent on scripture. They rely so heavily on external knowledge and laws that they have lost touch with the Spirit and do not know Jesus in truth. In such a case, the only way to bring them out of the darkness of their own mind is to fast the bible and seek the truth of Christ.

But you would prefer that they remain in slavery to their own understanding of the bible. The only way anyone can truly understand scripture is by Jesus Christ opening the mind of a person (Luke 24:25). But if that person is not sacrificing everything to Christ, He cannot do this.

Instead, many in the Church has become a slave to their own interpretation of the bible. She has given the bible all authority and made it the Word of God. Instead of worshiping Christ, she worships the bible. She uses the bible to leverage power and authority. Preachers use the bible to leverage their own selfish teachings. This will not last. Do you think God will allow this harlot to remain in His kingdom?

Christ will remove the light from those Churches who do not worship God in truth. Her womb will become barren. She will not produce any fruit.

Beware of your sin. Be transformed by Christ and follow Him. Obeying the bible will not make a person clean, or will it lead to eternal life. Only true knowledge of Jesus Christ will produce fruit worthy of eternal life.

I pray for everyone who is willing to listen, that they may hear.

In the name of Christ,
Blake

Psa 119:49 ZAYIN: Remember the Word to Your servant, on which You have caused me to hope.

Psa 119:50 This is my comfort in my affliction; for Your Word has given me life.

Psa 119:57 CHETH: You are my portion, O Jehovah; I have said that I would keep Your Words.

Psa 119:67 Before I was afflicted I went astray; but now I have kept Your Word.

Psa 119:74 They who fear You will be glad when they see me; because I have hoped in Your Word

Psa 119:81 KAPH: My soul faints for Your salvation; I hope in Your Word.

i know whitout the bible i would be way wrong in several issues.... the bibel is the word of God to me, its a lamp unto my feet, and whitout the light i would walk in darkness.....