Baptism by Spirit Fire or Physical Water?

Or is it simply an outward symbol of the inward transformation?

Correct. You should be baptised however.

Yes, John did baptise with water. But so did the disciples of Jesus. There are plenty of referances in Acts. (just type in 'baptism' in any bible search engine)

Jesus' baptism of the Holy Spirit is the power from on high. The 'empowerment' from God.

Jesus' baptism of fire, is the second coming. He will devour the earth with fire. Or 'baptise' the earth with fire.

There are a few other 'baptisms' like when Jesus was about to be crucified, he referred to that as 'baptism'. And a few others that exscaped my mind.

You may find some clarity on the subject of water baptism from Watchman Nee's book [i]The Normal Christian Life[/i]. Here is a link to read that book online at CCEL. Read chapter 5, The Divide of the Cross.

[url=http://www.ccel.org/ccel/nee/normal.html]The Normal Christian Life[/url]

In Christ,

Ron

Both are important and relavent, but the baptism that Jesus brings (Holy Ghost and fire) is much more important and relavent. I think more Christians are focused on the water than on the fire. God did not tell us that His ministers would be "baptizing water" but a "flame of fire" (Heb 1:7).

You can have revival without the physical water, you can't have revival without the Holy Ghost and fire.

I think there are certain signs which may have more significance than we realise; water baptism, breaking of bread, signs of authority. It is interesting that only once did the apostles actually 'command baptism' and that was to a group who had just been baptised in the Spirit.[color=0000ff]“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.” (Acts 10:48 NKJV)[/color]...so baptism in Spirit does not make baptism in water superfluous.

In terms of your original questioners, I am not at all sure that the baptism referred to in Romans 6 is the 'water' variety.

I'm not quite sure of this, i haven't checked it, so if I'm totally wrong please someone say so, i have heard that in the days of Jesus or among the first generation Christians, when baptized often you got expelled from the synagogue, often times family's turned their back on you. When baptized in water you took a radical turn, saying all this world and its system all Ive ever known i die to that and get baptized and resurrect and follow Christ now....

so i think the water baptism have lost its total radical stand that the early church took... when you got baptized that was it...im now living for Jesus no matter the consecuenses... from that it has become some religious formality , maybe our view on it is to "light"?

an outward sign of an inner death to self and this world....

I'm a follower of Christ now.... so in that sense i believe water baptism is very important...

I'm quite sure I'm converted and Jesus has turned my life around 180 degrees - is water baptism going to add another dimension to my walk with the LORD? Or is it simply an outward symbol of the inward transformation - like wedding rings to a married couple?

Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Hi Corey,

Personally, my own 180 was similar. There is enough appealing in the scriptures even from the Lord Himself ...

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Some notes from John Gill;

[b]baptizing them[/b]; not all nations, for the antecedent to the relative "them", cannot be "all nations"; since παντα τα εθνη, the words for "all nations", are of the neuter gender, whereas αυτους, "them", is of the masculine: nor can it be thought that it should be the mind of Christ, that all the individuals of all nations should be baptized, as Heathens, Turks, and Jews; but μαθευτας, "disciples", supposed and contained in the word μαθετευσατε, "teach", or "make disciples"; such as are taught, and made disciples by teaching, or under the ministry of the word by the Spirit of God: Christ's orders are to "baptize": טבלו, "dip" them, as Munster's Hebrew Gospel renders it; that is, in water, which, though not expressed, is implied; for with no other baptism could the apostles baptize: not with the Holy Ghost, and with fire; for this was Christ's peculiar prerogative; but with water, which they in obedience to this commission practised, Act_8:36, and which was to be done

To be honest find it often strange the semantics and extractions and lengths often gone to, "reasons" over this matter. Think Ron hit's on something very important here;

I think there are certain signs which may have more significance than we realise; water baptism, breaking of bread, signs of authority.

It is the very [i]significance[/i] of the matter. Beyond that, brother it is a great joy not only to be baptized but to see others baptized as well. I don't think the almost cliché' like utterance really sums it all up in total, it's close but the significance is in drawing a line in the sand, it is making an announcement before men and angels ... Recalling;

Luk 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

There is all the history of what this cost the early disciples making such a bold statement and in the case of the eunuch, practically the opposite. Who then would he be appealing to with next to no audience (of men)?

I got to admit, I get quite excited, a joy springs up to even hear of this. Recalling my own, recalling a dear man that I didn't even know being baptized in a horse trough in a public park, my mother in law ... All brought great tears of joy. The day of my own forever etched into the memory even though it was some two years after the 'fact'. Brother, truly thought my face would crack from the perpetual smile all that day long ... It is a beautiful and tremendous thing. Am just again reminded of our brother Greg, baptized in the ocean ... There are some pictures and some very good posts around here in this regard. Will see if I can dig them up later.

Dear Corey,

I was saved at 22 and went to a wonderful Church that really worked hard to do things according to biblical pattern.

Baptism was done immediately after conversion because they believed the old man should be buried. When we went down into the watery grave we came up to walk in newness of life. It was a cutting off and also as some have said a testimony to all of a new direction of life.

This very thing has cost many family, friends and even their own lives over the years. It states that everything previous to that act is buried and dead and a new life is starting.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

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Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer [it to be so] now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

[color=6600CC]In the Strongs Concordence it becometh means "1) to stand out, to be conspicuous, to be eminent and to fulfill means : 1) full, i.e. filled up (as opposed to empty)1) to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full. All means all. Righteousness means : 1) in a broad sense: state of him who is as he ought to be, righteousness, the condition acceptable to God, 1) righteous, observing divine laws[/color]

If Jesus submitted to water baptism it must be important. Let's all get the old man buried.