My wife and I watched a movie called jesus camp. I have never heard of it, and now having seen it I'm not sure what to think! Has anyone else seen this movie? What would be your take on it!
Also this morning at church their was a guest speaker D.A. Carson. He seemed very good although I am not familure with him very much, any take on his ministry as well!
My wife and I watched a movie called jesus camp. I have never heard of it, and now having seen it I'm not sure what to think! Has anyone else seen this movie? What would be your take on it!
[b]WHERE IS THY GOD, O CHRISTIAN? by Greg Gordon
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14777&forum=16
D.A. Carson
Actually from what I understand about the movie, the documentary film makers just filmed what was going on without spinning it -It just so happens that they were filming something which even a lot of orthodox Christians would find outragious -kids on fire!
I'm a baptist, so I hope you don't take offence to this, but you don't need to be teachings kids tounges and other unorthodox 'spiritual gifts' to children under 14 who can barely think for themselves yet... this is a formula for future problems.
Also the woman who is in charge of this camp is over weight, which I think does damage to her testimony. My personal view on the subject is similar to decons taking care of their children... How is it that if you can't even take care of your body you should be allowed to take care of a church or a jesus camp for that matter.
Also the woman who is in charge of this camp is over weight, which I think does damage to her testimony. My personal view on the subject is similar to decons taking care of their children... How is it that if you can't even take care of your body you should be allowed to take care of a church or a jesus camp for that matter.
Jordan
From what I have seen in previews, this does not look like it is from God.
Michael
WOW. A bunch of kids are going after God with all they've got and are we to blind to see this a awesome? These kids aren't in a cult or something, they are in love with God. If you haven't watched the movie, don't even bother commenting. I totally understand people have opposing opinions on the movie and opposing opinions on the "gifts" that are shown in the movie, but PLEASE give me a break. These kids are the future generation, they are going after God, what more do you want? Do you think the hearts of these young children are not sincere? What happened to Joel chapter 2? Your sons and daughters! WAKE UP O SLEEPER! It's time to arise! This coming generation is the FUTURE of Christianity. What would you rather? A bunch of fat lazy kids with cake on their faces sitting on the couch watching garbage TV?! These kids are going after God, forget the piddly differences in doctrine etc. these kids are OUR future, if you'd rather them be lukewarm fakes then blah.
I really hope you were kidding. I mean, seriously?Jordan
Nope, dead serious.
I shouldn't throw stones too hard, so I softened my language -I too am over my BMI.
Gluttony is one of the sins which is on display at most American churches! Our bodies are temples for the Holy Spirit, but we indulge our fleshly appetites on Big Macs and fish sticks.
When someone has a weight problem with the exception of rare health issues -it is a sign of gluttony. I'll be the first to admit that this is a sin that I struggle with!
There is really no excuse for it! There's also a reason why some denominations require their missionaries to be under the BMI -because no third world believer could take an obese person seriously.
KP Yohannan has talked about it, so has Leonard Ravenhill, Zac Poonen, Keith Green, Oswald Chambers -why are they convinced that eating too much is a sin and you're not? Because our culture has excused gluttony, it's pardoned us from this sin.
Yes, gluttony is a sin! Eating more than your body needs to run itself is a sin. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy a good meal, but you have to be conscious of how you are stewarding your body for the Lord.
Imagine the extra years that some believers would have if they weren't killed by heart disease brought on by a bout of gluttony. When you get to the pearly gates is someone going to say 'well if you hadn't gotten the large fries you would have been down there for five more years and reached another two hundred people for Jesus.'
Being over weight doesn't only limit our testimony and lifespan; it limits our stamina and puts boundaries on how Jesus can use us. Someone who is winded by walking up a flight of stairs certainly isn't going to be able to walk out into the jungle to preach the word. They also aren't going to be able to go 'the second mile' as Jesus put it, because they would have collapsed after the first!
Did it ever occur to you that perhaps she has a physical aliment that causes her to be like that? Or she takes medication for something that causes this? Of course its not God's will for her to be so, but maybe he just hasn't healed her yet? There are numerous possibilities besides "gluttony" that could cause this. Also, why would you judge someones testimony by their weight? What? This person is a child of God and he sees her has beautiful no matter what she looks like physically.
Where there's smoke there's usually a fire -I think most Christians with weight problems would like to use excuses, but the simple fact is that they (and myself) are dealing with a sin that unlike others is pretty clear for people to see, and it reflects negatively on our testimony as disciples of Christ.
Kids aren't the only thing on fire with this woman -she's already been called out by most of the Christian community after the Jesus Camp movie, don't step into the lime light if you can't stand the heat. Unless you're made of stuff better than hay and stubble!
How do you figure she's been called out by most of the "Christian Community"? Everyone I've talked to loved the movie. Plus, you don't know most of the Christian community. Your statements are just as much hay as the movie, if the movie truly is hay (which I don't believe it is). Honestly, how can you dare call this womans weight a sin, when you have no idea her life or what she came from or where she has been?
Anyways, I'm done arguing on weight. I don't want to get off topic here. Sorry if I did so.
Just saw it. Crazy film. That was total brainwashing... I just really feel bad for those kids :-(
The film-making was top-notch though. They didn't even talk once and add their own bias. Pretty good.
Jordan
The film-making was top-notch though. They didn't even talk once and add their own bias. Pretty good.
Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady are extremely gifted film-makers.... these girls got both talent and brains. They don't mess around.
They were set out to achieve something, and I think they were quite satisfied with what they were able to capture with the camera.
Film can be very revealing especially if you know how to use it for your advantage.
I posted on this film a few months back.
Here's a link to [url=http://kidsinministry.com/]Becky Fischer's website
PS. No, I'm not a fan.
richie
May the Lord protect the children in today's "churches" in America and Canada.
God help us and enable us to help the children live out His purposes and not our own.
God knows how many children have been manipulated by those that claim to be real "christians."
richie
My wife and I were very concerned right away when we saw this!
Amen! (to the lotis comment about kids being on fire)
My friend and I just finished watching the movie. The main thing we noticed, from what was shown, was that almost no scripture was used throughout the movie. There were probably 3 verses throughout it, all spoken by the same man.
Are they even teaching these children the Word of God? or are they basing their Christianity on whats written on the back of Christian T-shirts and creating an idol out of America.
Deuteronomy 6:6-7 "And these words which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart. 7. And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children..."
I really didn't want to reply to lotus right away, but I think the responses on this thread are pretty much a good sense of what the true remnant church feels about this film -about the ministry of 'children on fire.'
Ok... here it goes...
I started to read this thread because I heard a little about the movie and then by reading some comments I felt that this was a horrible movie. After searching on my computer, I found a way to watch it here in Korea.
I watched it...hmmm...here I go...
Ignitemysoul, originally asked what 'we' think, because he and his wife did not know what to make of it.
Sermonindex, refered Ignitemysoul to his article, which I read and is very good.
iansmith, mentioned something about the film-makers put no spin on the film. He expressed that the movie/content was 'outrageous' and being a baptist that he thinks teaching children tongues and other 'unorthodox' spiritual gifts to kids under 14 was a 'formula for future problems'. And he said that Becky Fischer's weight problem was a sign of gluttony (sin), which damages her testimony.
Lotis, in between iansmiths comments suggested that this was a great film and asked if we were too blind to see how awesome this is.
Then iansmith jordanomo, and lotis 'debated' a'lil' about weight.
wildhorse, ummm, stated,"from what I have seen in previews, this does not look like it is from God".
jorandanamo, said it was 'crazy' and 'total brainwashing' and that he 'feels bad for those kids'. But the filmaking was 'top-notch'.
Yeshuasboy, said something true, but I am not sure what side of the fence he is on.
Ignitemysoul, reposted that he and his wife were very concerned about the movie.
blinx, came in with an 'Amen' to Lotis.
nateherman, said there was no scripture and then mentioned something that Paul Washer said about Christian t-shirts, which I admit sounded really good when he said it.
my response...
Ignitemysoul, I think it was a good film with a great message for those who were there. You need not worry or be concerned. Well, no more than for those children whom were not there.
Sermonindex, again, good article.
iansmith, ummm, did you see the film? I usually agree with you, but this time I think, as you mentioned, you may have been throwing your rocks a little too hard. Maybe next time, do not throw rocks.
You mention about the film-makers putting no spin on the movie, but I believe any camera put in the face of anyone, especially children, puts a spin on everything. I know the film-makers did not try to hinder the recordings, but their very presence did.
I am a baptist, too. So what? I am 30 years old, as of two days ago, and I am just starting to understand about spiritual gifts, including speaking in tongues. Am I at the right age? When would it be appropriate?
I am not trying to come down on you, but I am only trying to pick up the rocks that fell in my yard... :-(
wildhorse86... watch the movie first. I saw the trailers and other previews on youtube and thought that it was a cult or something really strange, but quickly threw away my opinion after watching the entire thing, including the credits.
jordanamo, if you believe this to be 'crazy' and 'total brainwashing' I would love to hear what you think about the rest of the world, including what you listen to here on SI. From what we are able to see through our screen is nothing but truth.
Yeshuasboy, I agree with what you said, but I do not really know what you were or were not refering to, but I agree that we need to protect children.
blinx, I will raise your, 'Amen' to Lotis, and add another 'Amen' from me.
nateherman, you mention scripture not being shown, but the first thing I could think of is that this 'movie' is only 84 minutes and 33 seconds long. If you take away all the 'top-notch' fillers like trees and clouds, as well as interviews and radio shows, there was not much about the Jesus Camp itself. So, there was not enough to determine whether it had or did not have scripture.
................Ok.......................
With those replies out of the way, I would like to express why I believe that this lady, Becky Fischer, has her heart and direction going the right Way.
When I was about 8 years old, I remember being driven to church for about three years. Those three years, 8-11 (plus or minus some months), I remember only two main thoughts: the first, was going to church, and the second, was being molested, beat, and abused.
See...I was abused in the 'home' that I was living, but each Sunday I was taken to church. I remember the abuses and I remember the drive to church, but I remember nothing about the church I attended.
These kids in Jesus Camp will not remember the drive to Jesus Camp, they will remember Jesus Camp. Geez, I will remember it and I was not there!
There will be debate and arguement over doctorine and theology, but these kids are learning and will remember Jesus. By the time I was 10, I was smoking and doing drugs. By the time I was 12, I was drinking heavily and having sex. Not too mention, the slippery slope that led me into darkness for the next 13 years.
Some of you with more background knowledge and experise with the churches, pastors, and teachings will undoubtably be able to shoot me down, or redirect my feelings about this camp. However, my heart is telling me that Jesus Camp has potential.
There are definate areas that need some tuning. The biggest one, that I feel is the most obvious, which is having a filmcrew film these children. They are obviously influenced by the pressure 'to be christian' in a christian camp. You can see that in their faces as the camera scans by and they pretend they do not notice, or they do notice and 'turn up' their 'belief'. That is a problem, but there are genuine tears for the Lord there. I know, because I wept watching.
There is some 'over-acting' in the film, but like some of 'us' here on SI, we, too, can get a little puffed up when our posts are in the 'spot light'.
There is also a concern of editing that we should consider. The film-makers do have a very vital role in the presentation of the film, no matter how much they just 'let the film role'. A lot is rolled up on the cutting room floor. They can spin anything. Not that they did, but it should be considered. I would like to hear from Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grad (directors), along with Enat Sidi (editor).
I would also like to learn more about Pastor Ted Haggard.
As for the kids, they will be fine. That Levi boy and Rachel girl, really do have love for the Lord and I believe that we will hear more about them and others in the future. Of course, we will probably hear something negative about one of the children that does something bad, but my prayers are with them all.
I heard someone mention that they are
'worshiping' George Bush. No, they are not. I am Canadian and I live in Korea, but I pray for Bush almost everynight. They did nothing more than that. Becky Fischer does not seem to have any hidden political agenda. If she does, at least she is praying for a Christian president to support Life.
Some of these kids want 'meat, not candy'. Feed them. It will not kill them. They might bite off more than they can chew, but that is when they learn a lesson. It is better than feeding them candy and watching their teeth and brains rot with the garbage that the world has to offer.
Other areas for improvement are open for discussion, but I see that they have something which is good.
As for the critics like Mike Papantonio(radio host), I do not know anything about him, but my heart says nothing about his loud mouthed commentary. He seems to try and be unbiased, but his opinion over takes his belief.
Although heavier (iansmith), Becky says a few good quotes at the end which come directly from her heart...
"God, let's get out of here!"
"Knowing what I know, how do I not give my whole life to helping other people, children, teenagers, or adults come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ."
"That is not a burden, it is the greatest joy of my life."
Anyway, I just wanted to say what I thought based on the original question. This is what I think, but as always, I am open for change.
I guess I should note that I do not have children, which could be a major flault in my argument, although, I was one and Jesus wants us to be as one, as well. These are children learning about truth. One Way or another, they will learn something good from this, compared to what is been shown/taught throughout the world.
God Bless the Little Children...in all of us,
BrianMira :roll:
P.S. I also remember and love the song, "Spirit in the Sky", by Norman Greenbaum
P.Ss. My fiancee just watched the movie and wants to send our (future) children to a similar camp... I said nothing. ;-)
Excellent and balanced!
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