Have you or has anyone at your church ever spoken on the sin of gluttony?
Would there be a panic if someone was rebuked for gluttony at your church?
Please feel free to answer these questions and submit your own thoughts on gluttony.
You should know better than to ask such silly questions like that. :-P
People would run you over for rebuking something that is a church statute. :-x
We all love to eat especially after service, we're half way out the door when the doxology is being sung. :-D
They say that the bigger the bible you carry around the BIGGER the hypocrite, highlighting the word BIG. 8-)
The Sin of Gluttony - are you mistaking poems for the word of God?
The 7 deadly sins came from the poem Paradise Lost by John Milton, and as such I'd never rebuke someone for gluttony.
Now greed, that's not a fruit of the spirit. But liking food, I'm nae sure thats a sin. Is someone comfort eating cause they are lonely - that those root issues would need addressed.
If someone preached on the sin of gluttony in my church - I'd question wether or not that was the word of the Lord.
what about the tenth commandment? we dont hear so much about that in our time...
No, we do not. I hope when my wife and I have children, we teach them to be content with simple things.
I heard them talking on the news today about saving teh enviroment and saying how bad we were at consuming things.
Gluttony is not the same as coveting. Gluttony is eating to excess.
Have you or has anyone at your church ever spoken on the sin of gluttony?
If someone preached on the sin of gluttony in my church - I'd question wether or not that was the word of the Lord.
The challenge is to identify who is actually the 'glutton' and what defines gluttony. Some people eat in great abundance and gain no weight- while others who actually eat less are much heavier. Finney challlenged folk on eating for pleasure and messages on 'sweet meats' were not that uncommon in Wesley's era.
I think that Greg's point on Sodom is right on target. To build on the concept I would submit that folks who have abundance of 'idleness' and 'bread' have found a way to make a living without actually going to work. The danger here is having provision and excessive amounts of time to get into mischief. Ditch diggers have a lot less time and energy to plot and achieve their vile imaginations. This is one of the reasons God gave Adam to work by the sweat of his face. It gave him a means of redeeming the time in evil days. If Adam had not needed to work for his meat (if any man does not work, etc.) he had had much more time on his hands. This excess time can be dangerous.
I've taught on gluttony. NOT on obesity because that can caused by other factors. But yes, on gluttony I've come against.
Being a diabetic who is extremely conscience of my health, and being a health and fitness nut anyway... it is something that is near and dear to my heart.
Krispy
I also agree with Greg and the scripture he references to. (Edit) just saw Krispy's post :)
I have done alot of study on idols, addictions and strongholds. Food is definitely an idol, addiction and/or a stronghold in many people's lives - including christians.
As a former personal trainer who still continues to work with people on these very issues. I also led a weight loss bible study with the focus being on 'heart idolatry'- not so much about getting thin.
Some great resources for info and help are The Lord's Table at www.settingcaptivesfree.com as well as a few books:
Love to Eat, Hate to Eat by Elyse Fitzpatrick
You are Not What You Weigh by Lisa Bevere
Idols of the Heart by Elyse Fitzpatrick
The Lord's Table study by Mike Cleveland
A Hunger for God by John Piper
It is not necessarily the food itself that is 'bad'- it's the lust for it- the desire for satisfaction that should only come from God. For many, food is their drug of choice. When they feel bad, or lonely, or upset or afraid, they turn to eating for satisfaction and comfort. It is widely accepted in the church today to eat too much, but the heart of 'why' people are doing it is the same as lust, or turning to alcohol or drugs or tv or anything else that people turn to when they need to be turning to God for satisfaction.
I have studied heart idolatry (because I saw it in a big way in my own life a few years ago and wanted to be free from them) and our church also did a whole series for 11 weeks on Idols of the Heart. I am blessed to have, on hand, alot of info on the subject. If anyone would like some more info, you can pm me. I also have a page on my website about health and fitness and i do get into the subject of eating in moderation, etc...
Like Robert refered to, you don't have to be overweight for overeating to be a sin. My husband and my pastor are both thin, yet they both can admit when they have been gluttonous and have sinned by eating way too much (not having self control) or by turning to food to just numb themselves before bed.
For those who overeat, ask yourself:
What am I preoccupied with?
What is the first thing on my mind in the morning and last thing at night?
Where do I turn when I need satisfaction or comfort?
Am I lacking in self-control in the area of eating?
Am I hurting or damaging my body (the temple of the Lord) by what or how much I am eating?
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Look, this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughter had [b]pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness
Ezekiel 16:49
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Romans 14:17
For the [u]drunkard and the glutton
Proverbs 23:21
But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest when I preach to others,
I myself should become disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:27
...do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body.
Is not life more important than food and the body more than clothing?
Matthew 6:25
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edit: I agree with Krispy. I am not saying that being overweight is a sin. There are certain medical reasons for some people, etc.. It's a matter of the heart. Like I said before, you can be thin and be gluttonous. It's about 'appetites' and letting the flesh rule those appetites. We want the Lord to rule our appetites. :-)
A lust for food is wrong, obesity itself is not wrong.
Good question.
Romans 14
Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Eddie
Romans 14
Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
I'm not so sure that verse is dealing with gluttony, but on certain types of food.
I agree with PreachParsly... Romans 14 has nothing to do with this conversation. We must always read scripture in context. Proof texting can be very dangerous.
Krispy
I really want to be nice... my mother has had a gastro-bypass surgery -my Grandmother died within the last year because of health problems resulting from her obesity. She was a godly woman, but she didn't treat her body in a way that she should have -I hate to talk about a loved one, especially one that has passed with such honesty, but we must examine and be honest about the reasons for the way things are.
I was at a conference for my work the other day, and I met a man who was a bible teacher at a Christian school... I may have been judgemental in this, but not only was his theology off on several issues, but as he spoke the fat around his neck almost made me queezy.
As I was leaving the conference my boss asked me what I thought about his comments on the 'end times.' and I commented to the effect that his health was so bad that he probably wouldn't last to see them. Which opened up a conversation on why someone should take better care of their body if they're a preacher of the Gospel.
Missionaries in my denomination have to be within their Body Mass Index... I'm not within my BMI, so as a Southern Baptist I couldn't go overseas as a missionary. There are a lot of reasons for this, but one of the main ones is that it's hard to respect a teaching about discipline from someone who so obviously has no discipline.
I think American-post-modern culture has influenced the church so much that we've excused obesity! Yes, obesity was preached AGAINST in all of the great revivals. It's no wonder that when Protestant Christians portrayed the evils of the catholic church they would use the image of an obese cardinal, with a bible in one hand and a pie in the other (and maybe a bottle of sacremental wine under his arm).
Would there be a panic if someone was rebuked for gluttony at your church?
I have tried to defeat this thing for years under my own will and striving only to fail time and time and time again. Of course I have experienced periods of freedom but have eventually fallen back into it every time. I do finally understand that it is a matter of surrendering my will rather than striving against it but I still have not been able to permanently lay it down either. I have found victory over many drug addictions in my life, including cocaine and nicotine. These were serious addictions. One of which should have killed me because I have never been one to do things in moderation. Thus I think this is part of the problem with the gluttony. Moderation is where I have a problem. I find it strange that from listening to other Christians discussing fasting that is seems relatively easy for me compared to thinner Christians. Total deprivation is easier for me than eating 1200 healthy calories. I think this is the difference in the drug addictions and the food addiction. I cannot forsake eating forever. If I could, I think I would have already been free from this sin. BTW- just out of curiosity, do you think anorexia is a sin and do you think anorexics should be rebuked in church?
> but as he spoke the fat around his neck almost made me queezy.
Another question for those who are physically fit. What do you think when you look in the mirror? Are you impressed? Do you ever think people look at you with envy or that others are lusting after you? Anyone willing to answer those questions honestly? I ask because the last time I lost weight and that was not the ultimate motivation. The motivation was to honor God and cast down the idols in my heart. Weight loss was the result, but when the weight came off I struggled with these thoughts. I was then full of pride. Now which is worse? Idolatry or Pride?
Because of my repeated failure, I tend to have a lot of mercy for people, even those whose struggle I do not understand because it is not an issue for me. I find hope in this scripture.
Matt. 7:2
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
I am not making excuses for my sin or anyone else's or looking for excuses to enable anyone to stay in a pigpen. Many people want to be free, they just don't know how.
I would almost rather post this in the broken heart thread. Good stuff over there.
James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Much love
Hope
ps Please don't pm me about this. If you want to discuss it, I see no reason to do it privately.
It's odd that Paul spent a considerable amount of time describing the why's and how's of church discipline... yet it is the one thing that the church refuses to do today.
And, of course, any action taken by a church has to have the goal of seeing the offender restored in their relationship with God. But the primary purpose of church discipline is to protect the rest of the church, because if there is sin in the camp it will spread faster than cancer if it isnt dealt with.
As a church elder, I'm not sure that gluttony would be something that would be addressed in the same manner as a sexual sin. I think it would be something that would be dealt with perhaps with two elder and the glutton... and done in a very sensitive way.
Havent had to deal with it at this point. I dont put it on the same level as "moral" sins (to steal a term from the RCC... forgive me) because I dont think gluttony will infect the church in the same way.
Have dealt with sexual sin twice in our churches... the one offender refused to repent and is now out of fellowship. The other did repent and is well on their way to healing within their family.
God's Word is true... and it works.
Krispy
If you guys don't mind, I would like to see a list of the verses that deal with gluttony. Now, I'm not promoting it or defending it but I would be curious to see a list.
While true that gluttony is only mentioned a few times (Deut 21:20, Proverbs 23:21), when it is mentioned it is associated with drunkenness. As being drunk is the result of excessiveness, so gluttony is as well a result of excessiveness. Jesus was accused of being a drunkard and a glutton because those who He associated with were. Was Jesus a drunkard? No. So then we can assume He was also not a glutton, since obviously these were false accusations against Him.
If we are to live our lives according to how Jesus lived His, then we are to abstain from drunkenness and gluttony as well as many other things.
Anything in excess is wrong. Excess is basically selfishness. It is living according to the flesh. This is why I say that gluttony needs to be handled with sensitivity… not just for the person involved, but because there are areas of my own life that I still struggle with my flesh over. It isn’t something that should be avoided in our teaching, but as individuals we need to remove the log from our own eye first so that we can better see to help our brethren who are also struggling in this life.
We should help our brethren, but in humility, knowing that we ourselves are nothing before God without the shed blood of Jesus Christ covering our sins.
Krispy
If you guys don't mind, I would like to see a list of the verses that deal with gluttony. Now, I'm not promoting it or defending it but I would be curious to see a list.
Josh, I listed some verses in my post. Maybe you didn't see them. I know my post was a little long :)
HopeinChrist,
Another question for those who are physically fit. What do you think when you look in the mirror? Are you impressed? Do you ever think people look at you with envy or that others are lusting after you? Anyone willing to answer those questions honestly?
You are very wise in asking these questions. The reason I came to do my study on idols of the heart was because 'fitness' and my physique (my looks) did become an idol to me. For many years I was enslaved to having to look a certain way, eat only a certain way, etc... but underlying was also food issues. Before I became a fitness trainer I had bulimic issues and gluttony issues. I thought that looking like a fitness model and gaining 'control' over that area of my life (my way, not God's way) was the answer.
I traded one sin for another. It seems to work that way for people with addictive personalities.
In 2002 the Lord really woke me up to the state of my heart and showed me the idolatry of it all. Both, overexercising and wanting to look good AND the opposite which was slothfulness and gluttony.
Thankfully, He delivered me. It was a slow process and it was like having heart surgery for a long time.
But you're right about the reason why people want to lose weight. It should not be to 'look good'. It should be to glorify God alone. It isn't about being thin. It's about glorifying God in our eating , drinking, and everything we do. (Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 1 Cor 10:31)
A great program that really emphasizes this is The Lord's Table at www.settingcaptivesfree.com . It helps those who are enslaved to an obsession with food or weight.
I also have much compassion for those who are enlslaved to overeating as well as those who are enslaved to their weight. I feel for those who have eating disorders (I have experienced bulimia and what is called body dysmorphia). There is so much pressure from the world , especially on women/girls to look thin, to look good. It's even in the church.
So, yes, we have a problem in the church with gluttony, but also with other idolatry- such as 'looks' (vanity), and many more. They are all substitutes for the real thing.
The problem is that people are getting their satisfaction from other things- intead of going to God for their true satisfaction.
I do pray that the Lord will expose this more and more so that people will be free to enjoy God more fully. I pray that bondages will be broken as the truth is exposed about the sinfullness of our own hearts. I pray that it will Jesus and Him alone who sits on the throne of our hearts.
In Him, Chanin
edit: amen to Krispy's post
I know that no one may read this, but I need to post this because my conscience won't let it rest. Yesterday when I made my post under this thread, I was in a hurry and posted quickly and without much thoughtfulness. I wanted to say what I wanted to say and typed everything so quickly that alot of it came out sterile, unfeeling, and maybe with a 'know-it-all' tone to it. I am very sorry for this
I know what it is like to struggle against strongholds- and even though the Lord has helped me in this area with victory, it doesn't end there. There is always something to overcome. Pride, selfishness, other heart idols that you never knew you had. Thankfully the Lord is continually showing me more idols that need to be torn down. Idols that keep me from living abundantly. I am so thankful for His work.
"All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." 1 Peter 5:5
My heart does go out to anyone who is dealing with idols of the heart. It is one of my passions, I guess you could say. May the Lord give us the grace to overcome anything that might be hindering us from growing into His likeness.
In Him, Chanin
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