God Hates sinners

I listened to some radio preachers discuss how Scripture is "very clear" that God hates sinners. They were saying that we are not to hate the sin but love the sinner, but to hate the sinner as well.
The violence that God was inflicting upon his enemies was the proof they were using. Saying that only if you hated someone would you take such violent action.
I believe that the preachers did not first look at God before interpreting the Scriptures. I am not saying that I can make sense of all violent scriptures, but I believe the Bible is clear that God doesn't hate in a humanly sense of hatred, and also would not promote God as taking emotive action because he hated someone. The way I would take verses where God calls for violence is; our Loving God is pouring his just recompense and judgement upon a non-repentant sinner. I do not know how to interperet every verse, but I would not say God hates in a human sense as was being described.

Psalm 58 and Galatians 1:9 were two of the verses the preachers used to back up their thoughts

Well, I'm going to make a bold statement about this one. I am going to wager that the men who believe this have not read the new testament.

The New Testament teaches that now men are storing up wrath for the day of judgement. Rather than it being dished out now.

Paul writes:

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

God does not hate sinners, they are his creation which he called good in the garde of eden.

He does hate sin, and cannot tolerate it.

Hi Provost,

I agree with you here. We always have to be careful how we present God. Sometimes we think God is like 'us'. We get angry when we see sin and injustice so we think God gets angry in the [i]same[/i] way. Yet, the wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God.

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without variance, without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. (James 3:17)

Sometimes God has to use horrendous circumstances to teach us about Himself. He cannot have His person being misrepresented and He knows exactly how to teach us. He is the Master Teacher. And these lessons are not pleasant. God knows how to bring us low. It would be terrible to have to learn certain lessons about God the hard way- but if that's what it takes- then that's what it takes. God is Love. He that loveth not knoweth not God. When God expresses His love it is in harmony with His character. His is [i]peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without variance, without hypocrisy[/i].

Sometimes we think we are the more spiritual because me are harder and sharper in our dealings with men and our representation of God. I think this is a deception.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; (Hebrews 7:26)

Jesus Christ was the perfect representation of God's person. How he handled people is how God handles people. When we read the Psalms we need to filter our interpretations through the person of Jesus Christ. God IS a God of judgment, but God is not willing that any should perish.

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live. (Ezekiel 33:11)

God does not hate sinners, they are his creation which he called good in the garde of eden.

God does hate sinners.(Psalms 5:5, Psalms 7:11) Most people think that His hate contridicts His love but it does not. It usually should be explained rather than just proclaimed.

Krispy: I would recommend you find another radio station to listen to. I'm not recommending a classic rock station, but I believe it would be better than listen to some Christian station that doesnt have enough sense to not play teaching like that!

I agree with Krispy. These things have a great influence on us. I must admit that I have thought the very same things myself here of late. Where is modern Christian Radio going these days? :-?

They were saying that [b]we[/b] are not to hate the sin but love the sinner, but to hate the sinner as well.

I disagree with this for sure!

The New Testament teaches that now men are storing up wrath for the day of judgement. Rather than it being dished out now.

I believe this may be the key to rightly understanding the idea of God hating unrepentant sinners. It needs to be understood in an ultimate context, in a final judgment context. God saw Gideon threshing grain in a wine press and called him a mighty man of valor. Jesus renamed Simon to Peter long before he was really made a rock. In each case God called the man by what he would become and not for what he was in the present. I believe we need to understand God hating the unrepentant sinner in the same way, in the sense of someone who goes through their whole life without repenting or believing.

Richard Owen Roberts touches upon this subject, among others, in his excellent series of messages titled [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=279]Change Our Hearts [/url]

In Christ,

Ron

Do you guys see love and hate as polar opposites (primarily speaking of it in realation to God's character)?

Hi Preach,

It usually should be explained rather than just proclaimed.

It might be quite edifying to give us some thoughts on how this plays out. I'm sure you have thought this through and would enjoy hearing how you would present Psalm 5:5 and 11:5? Would it be wise to use these passages in soul winning?

God does not hate sinners

I can provide an example of an instance in which God did hate a sinner.

It says in Hebrews 12:16 that Esau was "sexually immoral and unholy"

God says in Malachi 1:3, "Esau I have hated..."
Hated is the Hebrew word:
Sane'
Definition
1. to hate, be hateful
1. (Qal) to hate
1. of man
2. of God
3. hater, one hating, enemy (participle) (subst)
2. (Niphal) to be hated
3. (Piel) hater (participle)
1. of persons, nations, God, wisdom

Also in Romans 9:13, "As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

Hated in this verse is the Greek word Miseo
Definition
1. to hate, pursue with hatred, detest
2. to be hated, detested

Before anyone replies back and says that 'Hated' in this sense doesn't really mean hated, let me provide this same word Miseo in Matthew 5:44, "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

If God can hate Esau then is it not possible that God can hate sinners?

They were saying that we are not to hate the sin but love the sinner, but to hate the sinner as well.

I disagree with this as well. Nowhere in Scripture are we told to hate anyone.

RobertW wrote:
Hi Preach,

It usually should be explained rather than just proclaimed.

It might be quite edifying to give us some thoughts on how this plays out. I'm sure you have thought this through and would enjoy hearing how you would present Psalm 5:5 and 11:5? Would it be wise to use these passages in soul winning?

I'm quite sure that I can't do an adequate job but I'll put some thoughts out.

Here are a few things that we do know and can’t ignore.

1)God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. It is not pleasing whatsoever that the wicked are wicked, nor is it pleasing that they are dying.
2)While we were sinners God gave His son and the Son obeyed even unto death. We have to realize that He came to save sinners, not to condemn them.
3)God is also not slack concerning his promises. He isn’t willing that any should perish.
The list could go on as I’m sure most of you could add to it. This facet of God probably doesn’t need much explaining.

Here are some more things that we cannot ignore.

1)God is angry with the wicked everyday. (Psalms 7:11)
2)God hates all workers of iniquity along with those that love what is opposite of Him. (Psalms 5:11, Psalms 7:11, Romans 1:32)
3)The wrath of God abides on all those who do not believe in Christ. (John 3:36)

There are some more, but that gives the idea. Below is how I put them together in my mind.

God’s whole being is in contrast to the wicked. Not merely their actions, but the person that committed the actions. I don’t think you could separate a song from the singer any more than the sin from the sinner because if there were no singer there would be to song. The singer produces the song. If there wasn’t the sinner to commit the sin, the sin wouldn’t be committed. The enmity that was once between God and us was not with our actions, but us! This is why I don’t really see “God loves the sinner, but hates the sin.” I think there is ‘a’ truth in that, but I’m not sure it really gives the full effect.

I preach on the street and deal with people that are living in utter wickedness. They love to quote things like “God loves me no matter what.” In their mind, it doesn’t matter how bad they are their relation to God doesn’t change- He still loves me.

Here is an analogy that I have used before. It isn’t perfect because no everyone is a child of God, but it seems to relate the point.

Imagine a father that had a rebellious and wicked son. The father loves the son with everything that is within him. The father has time and time again been patient with the son, but the son stiffens his neck. The son committed a horrible crime. The crime demands that their be a payment or life in prison. If the payment is paid, then the son can be set free. If the payment is not paid then the son will die in prison. The father sells his greatest possessions. And in essence is in the “poor house.” He comes to his son and says, “Son, I’ve sold nearly everything that you can be set free.” Shockingly the son says, “What a waste! You’re a moron! I don’t want it! If I can’t pay it myself, I surely don’t want you to!” The father now is deeply hurt and even to the point of wrath. It’s not that the love for his boy has changed, but the fathers response to the son is wrath. He can’t believe after all that he did that his son would reject him.

I think God sees sinners in a similar fashion. It isn’t that God doesn’t love sinners, but is abhorred that they reject him.

If I can think of any better ways to convey what I mean over the next few days, I will post it.

Would it be wise to use these passages in soul winning?

I don't see a huge problem with it as long as it is explained. God still desires them to be converted and that has to be plainly spoken.

I've often wondered that if God's love (agape) gives, than the opposite of that is selfishness or pride. God's anger isn't selfish, but many times mans anger is. This is why I wouldn't say "God hates you." People don't think of hate the way is it used to describe God. God's hate is not like man's hate. God's isn't prideful, mans almost always is.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

When Paul wrote this, he was not speaking to unsaved people, but rather saints. We cannot use this as a verse to say that God loves unrepentant sinners as it is not addressed to unrepentant sinners.
God loves Christ for He is the only Perfect One. Therefore all in Christ God loves, all outside of Christ, God grants mercy. Mercy should never be taken for God's approval or affection, but rather this goodness should lead to repentance. How so?
As one sees that he has been provided breath and a heartbeat, and food, use of limbs, sight etc. this goodness, or mercy should humble men. Especially whne they are made to see their grievous, animosity towards the very One who gave him these things.
But these things are not tokens to ease the conscience of the unrepentant as our own testimonies will bear witness to, that when we had these things our consciences still cried out, "guilty, guilty" despite all we did to quash that voice. Until the grace of God showed us Christ and His merit as Saviour and Lord, and we were placed into Him.
Therefore we should warn the unrepentant of the wrath to come not from a loving grandfatherly god, but rather the very God you are an enemy of, and is an enmy of yours yet cares enough for you to grant life.

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

I think we should pay attention to the "we" and "us". Also notice the past tense of "we were sinners".
Paul is using this to show the glory of what it was to be justified. The whole book to this point has been to establish the wickedness of the Gentiles, and the Jews alike, and that all were under the wrath of God. But God through faith has justified sinners.
Remember also this was written to the Church at Rome before Paul had visited them. This is why he goes into such detail about the key doctrines of depravity, righteousness, faith, etc.

I don't think anyone has the right to align their ministries and theology with the God "hates' and "abhors" sinners verses if they haven't first wept in utter brokeness over them. To mention these verses with dry eyes and a unafflicted spirit not only disqualifies you, but it also brings you into a very dangerous mindset. There are certain things in the Holy Scriptures that can [i]only[/i] be properly understood through deep travail and affliction. This is one of them.

The preacher who hasn't first wept over Psalms 5 and 7 brings [i]incalculable[/i] damage to the Body of Christ when he presents them to the unsaved. And his teachings and preachings become like a lobotomizing spiritual virus infecting the minds of other dry-eyed, zealous saints.

Brother Paul