Hebrews 6:4-6 - What Does It Mean?

Christinyou said this [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14567&forum=36&10]here.[/url]

Heb 6: is another proof that man cannot loose God's salvation given by Him, authored by Him and prepared His own sacrifice, that those who believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, which is revealed by God Only, they are saved to the utmost.

Heb 6 is always the first place those that don't believe that their salvation is eternal and fixed in Christ Jesus. They take it out of context and use only 4-6 to prove eternal security false. Also, according to the Bible, if we could lose our salvation, then it would be lost forever, because Christ only died once. Hebrews 6:4-6 is an often misunderstood passage, which strongly supports the doctrine of eternal security in two ways: it implies that Christ’s sacrifice must be sufficient for all sins, and states that if it were possible for a person to lose their salvation, it would be forever lost. According to this passage, if a person could do something that cost them their salvation (which they cannot), then it would be “impossible” for them to be re-redeemed. The impossible is not for renewing but for assurance that one cannot loose their salvation.

If you surround :4-6 with :1-3 and finish it with :7 you will see that eternal salvation is of God and not possible for man to sin a sin unto death. "Don't pray for it". Verse seven: Hebrews 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: The saved are the son's of God planted in good ground and the rain falling bring forth meet, fruit, for them by whom it is dressed. Who is the Vine Dresser? Of Course it is God. What is the blessing from God, the only true blessing that is for all those that believe, believing by the Holy Spirit? The only true blessing from God is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory". The one single thing that God has done that we should be praising Him every day and every moment is That Jesus Christ Has been Born Again in the believer and we now have a new life that is full of the blessing of the rain that fall on us to bring forth herbs (grazing land) meet (appropriate and fit) for the Vine Dresser.

The second part in verse :8 is for the unsaved, "nigh", (near at hand) are those that still have a chance to believe or they will go to damnation. They are near at hand to cursing and eternal damnation.

Hebrews 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Then Paul puts us back into verse :7; Hebrews 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Notice, "accompany salvation", which takes the believing saint, a son of God into the complete assurance of eternal salvation: Hebrews 6:12-13 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises. For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, He sware by Himself. If God sware by Himself who can question His eternal salvation.

Hebrews 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

Hebrews 6:18-20 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

What are the two immutable things? The sure reference is to the promise and the oath of God, each of which is firm ground of the assurance of salvation, and in each of which it would be impossible for God to lie. What is the strong consultation of our souls after the immutability of God not able to lie by the promise and the oath: Hebrews 6:19-20 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. This is absolute conformation the Col 1:27 Is true and complete in our salvation, surrounded by what Christ in a person will do; He will make all men perfect that believe the He is the Son of God.
Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Since it is not our life we live any more, we could not possibly loose that which God has promised. Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. (And I could loose my salvation which is not mine to begin with, but Gods.) Author's addition

In Christ seeking the things which are above.
Colossians 3:1-4 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.::: Phillip

Anyone who believes in eternal security, does not know the definition of the word salvation from the original greek.

It is a thing that is constantly happening, and must be pursued or it will be lost.

Now for the meaning of these verses:
Read especially carefully the underlined phrases, as it will help with understanding the verse.

[b]Hebrews 6:4-6

'4 [u]For it is impossible[/u] for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, [u]and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[/u]

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 [u]If they shall fall away,[/u] to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.'
[/b]

Ok, now let's make this really simple, and read it piece by piece, and see if the writer of Hebrews meant what he wrote. Here goes:

[i]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened[/i]

This means that they have seen/heard the truth.

[i]and have tasted of the heavenly gift[/i]

The "heavenly gift" is Jesus Christ. So they have believed in Christ.

[i]and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost[/i]

They have been filled with God's Holy Spirit.

[i]And have tasted the good word of God[/i]

Good, powerful, convicting...etc...

[i]and the powers of the world to come[/i]

Signs, wonders, miracles, gifts of the Spirit.

[i]If they shall fall away[/i]

Turn from the right path, refuse the truth, very self explanatory, but the writer says it can happen, [u]IF[/u] they shall fall away, it is a condition, not a supposistion.

[i]to renew them again unto repentance;[/i]

They cannot come again unto God.

[i]seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh[/i]

Christ died once for men, not twice. This concept was demonstrated by moses, when he struck the rock twice, and then was not able to enter in to the promise land because of it.

[i]and put him to an open shame.[/i]

Because Christ died only once, and that was enough, to try to have Christ die again would be saying that his sacrifice was not good enough the first time. But the scriptur tells us that He was the perfect sacrifice. Therefore it is a shame to Him.

Ok, now in summary, many people who believe in eternal security don't believe this to mean that someone can lose there salvation, however, as demonstrated by moses, it is certainly possible.

On the other hand, people who do not believe in eternal security immediately jump on backsliders, as though they cannot be saved. But what they don't realize is this:

There are five conditions in these verses that must take place before a person can be considered unreconcilable. Six if you count falling away as a step.

You see, the person who turns away from God, after having experienced all five of these things, does it knowingly, and in direct rebellion to the truth. For he has seen far too much evidence of the truth. And decides that he loves the world and his flesh more than God. And would not want to repent even if he could.

One last thing, the common backslider, has rarely experienced more than two or three of these five things, and is then free from this, and needs simply to go to God and confess his sins and repent.

Ben, Greetings.

If your interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 is correct, then what do you say to Jude?

Jude 1:24-25
"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."

[b]He is only able to keep you from falling when you surrender to His will.[/b]

I can go walk off a cliff right now, is that God's will for my life?

No, I must daily surrender to His will, so that I will be found as a good and faithful servant.

You see, God will call us "good and faithful" because we have been. To those that aren't "good and faithful" they will be cast into the fire.

If God simply "kept us from falling", then there is no need that I follow anything in the scriptures past the point of Justification. Because He would do it all for me. He will go save the lost, He will teach the bretheren, and as we all know, Christ is our intercessor, so He will pray for me, no need for me to pray.

It is the very fact that man has the ability to lose his salvation, that Paul says this:

[b]II Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, [u]whether ye be in the faith;[/u] prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?[/b]

Paul believed that we could lose our faith. Have you ever read about Demus?

If God simply "kept us from falling", then there is no need that I follow anything in the scriptures past the point of Justification. Because He would do it all for me. He will go save the lost, He will teach the bretheren, and as we all know, Christ is our intercessor, so He will pray for me, no need for me to pray.

I dare not try to put words into your mouth, but it appears from your response that you 'follow past the point of justification' because you are fearful of losing your salvation.

I will not lose my salvation and I continue to deny myself daily. Why? Because I love Christ and desire to please him.

It is the very fact that man has the ability to lose his salvation, that Paul says this:
II Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

There is nothing wrong with examining yourself and this does not prove that salvation can be lost. I can mean it was never genuine to begin with though.

Jesus says something about eternal security in Matthew 7

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Jesus says that he never knew those who proclaim to be his followers but are not. He does not say, 'I knew you but you fell away.' This goes back to God's foreknowledge of who will and who will not be saved.

I think the issue here is that many ask Jesus to come into their hearts, but never really go beyond that. Then there is a group of people who press in to recieve all He has for them. The fulness of the Holy Spirit and make Him Lord of their lives. Forsaking all the follow Him.

In this position it would take utter rebellion to walk away from it because of the intimate fellowship these saints had walked in. It would be like spitting on God's precious gift because they are doing it knowingly.

It is a different issue for those who have not pursued God to that depth. They just meander in and out and sin and repent, almost like a whim. These still are able to be restored after repentence because they have never really tasted the deep things of God. I would say it is even questionable if they were ever really saved, therefore salvation is still held out to them.

I see it as God giving you the most beautiful awesome treasure and you going in and partaking of it and enjoying His company and pleasure and then returning to your own vomit. You would have to do that with intent, therefore you are spitting on the beautiful gift of God.

Paul believed that we could lose our faith. Have you ever read about Demus?

2 Timothy 2:9-10, "Do your best to come to me soon. For Demas, in love with this present world, has deserted me and gone to Thessalonica. Crescens has gone to Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia."

My response concerning Demas would be the same as that of Paul's conerning Hymenaeus and Philetus:

2 Timothy 2
14Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. 15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. 16But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, 17and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some. 19But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity."

Also, I would respond as John the Apostle did in 1 John 2:19, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

Goldminer,

Paul Washer tells the story of being late to a meeting because he was physically run over by a Semi. The people at the meeting did not believe him because they said, 'You cannot have a meeting like that with a Semi and not be radically changed.' His reply was, 'Same way with God.'

I dare not try to put words into your mouth, but it appears from your response that you 'follow past the point of justification' because you are fearful of losing your salvation.

I will not lose my salvation and I continue to deny myself daily. Why? Because I love Christ and desire to please him.

I follow past the point of Justification because if I do not, then I am the same as the servant who took the money that the master gave him and then went out and buried it. He was called a wicked servant, and cast into outer darkness.

I am not fearful that I will lose my salvation because I daily place my hope and trust in Jesus Christ. But I do know that if I do not do the things that I am commanded to do, then I am not saved, or at the very least, I am a wicked servant.

There is nothing wrong with examining yourself and this does not prove that salvation can be lost. I can mean it was never genuine to begin with though.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with examining yourself, but according to eternal security it is an irrelevant act, either you are in the faith and you know it, or you are out of the faith and don't care. So why doit?

But I must disagree on this next point of salvation, Paul says: "prove your own selves"

Why Would Paul tell them to examine themselves? If they were in the faith, it would be obvious to them and everyone around them, and to Paul as well. So then he commanded them to do a pointless thing. If they were out of the faith, then what were they doing felloshipping with the believers anyway?

You say that your salvation is not in jeopardy, yet how can you, prove that you are saved?

What is this way that shows how you are saved for sure?

How do you know that tomorrow you won't just walk away from God, and He will say he never knew you?

In essence, according to what you believe, even your eternal security is not secure. Because you yourself may be a false convert. You have no way of knowing until the day of your meeting God.

Jesus says that he never knew those who proclaim to be his followers but are not. He does not say, 'I knew you but you fell away.' This goes back to God's foreknowledge of who will and who will not be saved.

One last thing, the word "knew", what is it's greek meaning?

It is intimacy, intimacy comes from relationship, not from Justification. Justification produces the necessary elements to produce a relationship.

I would like to ask a question here, how is man justified?
We know it is by faith in Christ alone.

There are no works of which I can bring into the courtroom of God and hold up as evidence to support His justification of me. Now unfortunately we live in a time where we have blurred the lines of Theological terminology and we assume "saved" to mean "justified".
Therefore we say salvation may be lost, when what we are referring to is the state of acceptance with God ie because of sin, God will now reject you.

Now please bear with me for a moment. If a man is justified through faith in Christ, what works did he do to achieve that state? Did he need to keep the Law? Of course we know that by the deeds of the Law no flesh shall be justified. so whence comes this justification, or declaration of our righteousness? From faith in the Justifier.

But now some may say, but if a man does not behave thus, he is not a Christian, or he is in danger of losing his salvation. Again though what grounds are we accepted by, what grounds are we justified by? Of course faith must have works, but are the works all the same for every person, so that one is not a Christian because they do not pray more than 5 minutes a day, or do not open air preach? No, the works may look different, thus we are to examine ourselves, but not to the point of dejection, but rather to make sure of our faith.

So now what is salvation? It can be many things. Deliverance from the power and penalty of sin is one. Delverance from circumstances is another. Yet salvation is a multi-faced thing. For example at the moment of new birth, we are saved from the penalty of sin or justified, then we are saved from the power of sin, or sanctified, and of course at the end of our Earthly pilgrimage we shall be saved from the prescence of sin, or glorified. So we are "saved", we are being "saved", and we shall be "saved".
In regard to this very thing Paul wrote this
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: [b]and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.[/b]

So now let us ask the question, can we lose our [b]justification[/b] as this is the basis by which I am accepted by God in the Beloved.

I have struggled, and still do (alot), simply accepting that Christ has fulfilled the requirements of the Law, and He is the Perfect One, yet God sees me "in Him". God loves me because of Christ. I fear many have fallen under the ideology that they must continue on in morals of their own making to somehow present this before God, but does that not put Christ and His work aside, and create a "justification" by works?

We must bask in the light of God's acceptance of us apart from our works, and in spite of our works, then it truly becomes "amazing grace"

I believe it means the same thing that Hebrews 10:26-29.

I agree that there is nothing wrong with examining yourself, but according to eternal security it is an irrelevant act, either you are in the faith and you know it, or you are out of the faith and don't care. So why doit?

The doctrine of Eternal Security or as I prefer it called 'Perseverance of the Saints' is that those who are called to salvation by God will remain in communion by God. It is not a matter of works that keeps a person in the state of salvation, it is a matter of the faithfulness of God.

Now, to the person who simply 'walks away' from God. How can one be born again (John 3) and then walk away? How can one be in Christ/a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17) and then walk away? How can one who has been saved...by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost (Titus 3:5) simply walk away? How can one be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:7) and walk away?

The doctrine of eternal insecurity is a fallacy and stems from a misinterpretation of a few verses of scripture.

One last thing, the word "knew", what is it's greek meaning? It is intimacy, intimacy comes from relationship, not from Justification. Justification produces the necessary elements to produce a relationship.

Are you saying that those who are justified are not brought into a relationship? Romans 8:29-30 tells us that every single person who is justified is also glorified.
Romans 8:29-30, "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Also, the knowledge Jesus was referring to in Matthew 7 is the knowledge of salvation. Romans 8:29 speaks of this as known before the world began. So, how is it possible that Jesus could know someone in salvation, but yet say that he never knew them in salvation? Is this not a contradiction?

I fear many have fallen under the ideology that they must continue on in morals of their own making to somehow present this before God, but does that not put Christ and His work aside, and create a "justification" by works?

AMEN!

I believe it means the same thing that Hebrews 10:26-29.

"26For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?"

Anyone who deliberately sins is not a child of God.

1 John 2 says,
"3And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: 6whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

1 John 3 says,
"4Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

The most relevant phrase to this discussion is "No one who makes a practice of deliberately sinning has either seen him or known him."

The doctrine of Eternal Security or as I prefer it called 'Perseverance of the Saints' is that those who are called to salvation by God will remain in communion by God. It is not a matter of works that keeps a person in the state of salvation, it is a matter of the faithfulness of God.

So then you are in contol of nothing that you do?

Rebellion is an attitude of the heart, not an outward act. It will produce outward acts, but it in and of itself is an inward attitude of the heart.

You are suggesting that once a person has believed in God, he is not capable of rebelling, and turning away from God. Yet there is even a mention of an unforgiveable sin in the new testament. Does that unforgiveable sin apply only to the already damned? If so, what is the purpose of even mentioning it? It must apply to believers.

Now, to the person who simply 'walks away' from God. How can one be born again (John 3) and then walk away? How can one be in Christ/a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17) and then walk away? How can one who has been saved...by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost (Titus 3:5) simply walk away? How can one be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:7) and walk away?

[b]By complete and utter rebellion.[/b]

How did satan, who lived in God's presence, chief among the angels, most beautiful of all God's creations, get up and walk away?

[b]By complete and utter rebellion.[/b]
God did not force satan to sin, God did not place rebellion in Satan's heart.

Do you believe that for God to give man complete and total free will, and by free will, I mean the real definition of free will, perfect freedom, without restraint...etc, that He would somehow be out of control?

One other thing I would like to see you address is the issue of Moses striking the rock twice and not entering into the promiseland because of it.

We know that the promiseland was a typecast of heaven, and we know that the rock was a typecast of Christ. So why then was Moses not allowed to enter into the promiseland?

Let me clarify my stance on Justification:

Justification comes by grace through faith in Christ alone, and is not by any works of our own.

In Christ's sacrifice he paid for the sins of the whole world. Therefore Justification is offered to all men.

However the issue I am addressing is that if a man after the point of being justified by Christ chooses to rebell against God, he is perfectly able to choose damnation for himself, and God will not stop him.

The contrary opinion here is that first, no man would even try to be justified that would eventually rebel in that fashion.

And second, that anyone who is justified, is incapable of rebellion and turning away from God.

What I cannot understand is how anyone who believes this has any guarantee at all that they have been justified. Because there is no telling if they won't at some point prove themselves "to not be a Christian" by leaving the faith. Showing that they were never really saved.

Bro Ben, in my eyes, a man will not seek to be justified unless the Holy Spirit has convicted him of his sin. Otherwise how would a man know he was a sinner, and in need of being justified before God? As Jesus said the Holy Spirit would convict the world of sin, righteousnes, and judgement, and also testify of Christ.

No man can begin to search after justification without a work of God showing him his wickedness, and creating a knowledge of his lost state.

Of course there are false professors of faith, but that does not negate the power of God, much like when Paul asked the Romans, "what if some did not believe, does this make the word of God without effect? God forbid"
Peter sums it up wonderfully when he writes, "we are kept(guarded) by the power of God through faith unto salvation" 1 Peter 1:5

If someone who professed to be justified turned away from God(which I do not believe can happen) I would question even if they had an honest profession to begin with. But this would have to brought back to what Gospel they heard, and I believe this is why we have so many problems today. Rash decisions for Christ, apart from the knowledge of God and His holiness, or the work of the Cross, and the work of Christ.

Just my thoughts, not worth much