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*Prayer In School

S
searchin Feb 15, 2007

U.S. Supreme CourtENGEL v. VITALE, 370 U.S. 421 (1962)370 U.S. 421 ENGEL ET AL. v. VITALE ET AL.
CERTIORARI TO THE COURT OF APPEALS OF NEW YORK.
No. 468.
Argued April 3, 1962.
Decided June 25, 1962.
Because of the prohibition of the First Amendment against the enactment of any law "respecting an establishment of religion," which is made applicable to the States by the Fourteenth Amendment, state officials may not compose an official state prayer and require that it be recited in the public schools of the State at the beginning of each school day - even if the prayer is denominationally neutral and pupils who wish to do so may remain silent or be excused from the room while the prayer is being recited. Pp. 422-436.

Meet Nathan: an average, middle school student who lives in a small mid-western town with his parents and two sisters.
\tOne night, at the dinner table, his dad starts a discussion about the importance of prayer. During which, he tells Nathan that he needs to be thankful and pray for everything, even when you go through your day at school. That’s when Nathan said, “But dad, we can’t pray in school; everybody knows that.” And his sister agreed, “yeah dad, we’re not aloud to pray in school.”
\tUnfortunately there are many students across the country who are just like Nathan, they really believe that, somehow, it’s against the law to pray in school. It’s not suprising if you listen to what many voices, from both sides of the debate, are saying about prayer in school.
All too common phrases like, “They’ve taken prayer out of the public school.” Or, “God has been removed from the class room,” Have left many mis-informed and has led to a distorted view of the facts concerning prayer in the public school.
\t
The Beginning

\tIn 1962 In the Case Engel v. Vitale, the Supreme Court passed a law which states, “The act of leading students in prayer was ruled unconstitutional, even if the prayer was denominationally neutral and pupils who wish to do so may remain silent or be excused from the room while the prayer is being recited” (Supreme Court Case Engel v. Vitale, p 422-436 Miller, para. 4)
\t This case came about when a school district in New Hyde Park, New York directed the School District's principal to cause the following prayer to be said aloud by each class in the presence of a teacher at the beginning of each school day: ''Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers and our Country.''
The State of New York authorized a short, voluntary prayer for recitation at the start of each school day. The question that was presented in court was: Does the reading of a nondenominational prayer at the start of the school day violate the "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment? The answer the court reached was, Yes. The court decided that by providing the prayer, New York officially approved religion. Thus prayers led by, and sanctioned by, school officials was prohibited.
Fortunately, the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects both believers and nonbelievers by mandating government neutrality between belief and nonbelief. The government-- through its proxy, the educators and administrators who facilitate our schools, may not lead children in prayer or force them to pray a certain way. However, all children have the right to pray voluntarily before, during, or after school, and non-religious children do not have to pray at all.
During free time at school, whether it’s lunch, in between classes, or any other time of the day when you are able to talk to your friends you can also talk to God, and you can talk to your friends about God. Kids all over the country are taking advantage of opportunities to tell their classmates about God’s love. When your friends are talking about there newest CD, I-pod, or the coolest web-site they’ve seen, you can use that time to tell them the good news of Jesus.
Not only will the school allow you to pray during these times but, in case you’re wondering, you can read your Bible in school as well. In fact you’ll find a copy of the Bible in just about every school and public Library across the nation.
No one in America has outlawed prayer or the Bible…not even in the public school.
Personal prayer never has and never could be outlawed in public schools the first amendment to the Constitution gives us the right to religious freedom in this country. Students can pray and read the Bible. The law is clear on this point, and we are unable to point to any credible authority on either side of the issue that thinks otherwise.
Religious activity in the public schools has been growing in recent years. In the last several decades many religious groups have placed increased interest in student evangelism, and have established thousands of prayer and Bible study clubs in the public schools. Such activity is protected, as it should be, by the Equal Access Amendment, which guarantees students the right to form religious clubs to the same extent they have the right to participate in other extra-curricular activities They can’t make you pray, but they won’t keep you from praying either.
This case first came to court in 1962 and twenty-eight years later there was a group of teens who gathered for a retreat. During the retreat they felt burdened to pray for their fellow students. They gathered around the flagpoles of three separate schools to pray. The teens prayed for their friends, the school, and school leaders.
God birthed from this the idea that has come to be known as, “See You At the Pole.” On September 12, 1990, 45,000 teenagers gathered at the flagpole in four different states to pray before school started that morning. One-year later one million students from Boston to California gathered at 7:00 a.m. to pray prior to the start of school. This ministry has continued to grow over the years since. Now more than three million students from coast-to-coast and around the world gather to pray one day a year.
Students not only meet once a year at the flagpoles of their schools but there are more and more school football teams that will gather for student-led and student-initiated prayer at high school football games. This shows that there is a desire to be able to pray at school. The Congress may have removed the traditional time of prayer that was observed during the school day but students have found other ways to include prayer and God in their school day. Proving, like Daniel, if you want to pray…nothing can stand in your way.


Check out…
*Free Exercise Clause and the 14 amendment
*The Constitution
*Establishment Clause
*The Equal Access Amendment


C
ChrisJD Feb 15, 2007

Goodmoring all.


"This shows that there is a desire to be able to pray at school. The Congress may have removed the traditional time of prayer that was observed during the school day but students have found other ways to include prayer and God in their school day."

This is good to hear :-)


In the past few years, the places where I have lived have been close to public schools in the city and I've seen first hand what is happening to the children in this country. When school lets out they walk through the neighborhood in huge groups. The language that these children use aught to be considered a terrible disgrace upon our society.

This is a great shame upon us all. I live among this everyday and it [b]grieves me[/b] to hear the way these kids are speaking and behaving in public without any sense of shame.

If it is wrong to encourage the acknowledgement of God in places of education I cannot imagine what one would call what has replaced it.

Will you say it is wrong to encourage children to have the name of God upon their lips? Yeah, will you say it is wrong but allow them the freedom to fill their mouths with hell instead?


If it is wrong to display the Ten Commandments in places of public education, I cannot imagine what one would call what has replaced it.

Will you say it is wrong for children to look upon the Law of God? Yeah, will you say it is wrong but allow them to fornicate, to kill, to lie and to steal instead?


Behold what manner of fruit has grown up in the ungodly vineyard. Behold.


The scripture says

[i]Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter![/i]

:-(

G
Goldminer Feb 15, 2007

I am so glad you shared this. I am going to pass it on to everybody I know.

I think where the problem comes in is the interpertation of this in many school. In places children are told the can't pray or read their bible and they don't have the knowledge to take a stand.

I hope everybody on this forum will also cut and paste this entry to your emails and forward it to you friends and family so they might send it to theirs. Maybe our children won't submit to lies anymore.

Thanks again for sharing this. I wasn't aware of some of the things you shared. I just thought that some schools were more open to prayer than others because of the faculty. Now I know the ones who prohibit prayer and Bible are takeing illegal action. Good news indeed in a way.

S
searchin Feb 15, 2007

Goldminer wrote:

I am so glad you shared this. I am going to pass it on to everybody I know.

-------------------------------------------------

thanx for the response...that's very encouraging.
i think it's important when talking to kids about this subject that we don't use harsh or militant words towards the school system.
we should be careful not to pit the school and the studebt against one another as to make them enemies.
the school will be a major influence in the life of the student...they spend a great deal of time there. that's why i felt the need to explain this in a way that shows kids that the school will allow them the right to pray....instead of the attitude that says...the school can't keep you from praying. we can teach our kids to stand up for Christ without breeding rebellion to authourity!
sometimes i think that more damage has been done (to confuse and distort the facts) by those who fight for prayer in school than the actual law has done. not intentionally,of course, but, prhaps, by not keeping the spirit of Christ and love when confronting this issue.
and there are school administrators who will be mis-informed as well ....that's why we want to educate students to there privelage as Americans and christians...to prayer.....thanx and God Bless Roy Belt

sermonindex Feb 15, 2007

we can teach our kids to stand up for Christ without breeding rebellion to authourity!

Oh how important this is!

I've grown up in the public school system. I'm currently a senior in a typical American high school... and indeed I pray in my typical American high school. It was only after a few months of praying and reading my Bible in school that someone approached me and tried to convince me that these things were illegal to be practiced in public schools. That didn't stop me. God checked me on it even as that man was speaking to me. My God told me that this was a lie, and that to submit to it would be wrong.


Our schools need prayer. The school systems need prayer, the students need prayer, the principals, the teachers, the custodians, the lunch servers, and everyone in between. Those that design and organize the curriculum need prayer. Even those that create the textbooks need prayer... Not one of my textbooks doesn't have a piece of "information" that doesn't contradict the Truth. Even my American Government textbook says that the earth is millions of years old.

All of these people I've listed are indoctrinating the children of the United States, which will soon be the adults of the United States.


I agree that word should be spread like wildfire that prayer in school is no crime. Let these young people pray... then maybe this nation will have a fighting chance at surviving the judgment that God is about to bring upon us.


End of rant. ;-)

G
Goldminer Feb 15, 2007

I agree that we need to present the truth without rebellion against authority. That was a good word.

I want to say to Amy. What an awesome woman of God you are. I read a prophecy not too long ago that the next rebellion amongst teen was going to a rebellion to serve God. That young people who have parents that smoke pot and watch trash will stand up and say I want something more beautiful in life and they will stand for righteousness in the midst of a wicked and perverted generation. So bravo to one who stands. All praise goes to God. Having done all stand! :-)

S
searchin Feb 16, 2007

that's agreat word....you all are very encouraging.
Have a great week-end! 8-)

S
searchin Feb 21, 2007

our kids at church have started a new prayer focused ministry outreach to other kids in the area they call it "ok2pray"
keep them in your prayers while they encourage others to pray!!!!! :-)

sermonindex Feb 21, 2007

keep them in your prayers while they encourage others to pray!

Will do.

May God bless all involved with this ministry.

S
searchin Feb 23, 2007

thanx...the kids are very excited about prayer and ministry and i thank God for that!

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