More than revival?

This is a difficult topic, because I know from an email discussion with a brother from this forum, that it is likely to be controversial.

However, it is good sometimes to be challenged; and be made to re-examine what we believe and why we believe it. As I have also had to do recently.

For some years I have not felt it right to pray specifically for revival. There were also some who said that the nation is under God's judgement and it’s too late to pray that way.

However, during the discussion with this particular brother I had to accept that this was not really a valid reason. ...Yet I [i]still[/i] did not feel the Lord was saying to pray for revival. - That the reason for not doing so may have been mistaken but the fact wasn't.

When I asked the Lord why, He gave Isaiah chapters 40 following. (He often answers our questions in a different way than we expect!) Those Scriptures - the sense of His power, glory and wisdom are enough to blow one's mind!

It seems to put the whole thing re prayer for revival into perspective. What God is doing is so much [i]bigger[/i] than what we understand as revival! The cry from heaven is [b]"PREPARE THE WAY OF THE LORD!" [/b]because He is soon coming.

In a way that has always been true, but there is a sense that it is imminent now.

There are other scriptures:

Malachi 3:1-3
[b][i]…the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, he is coming, says the LORD of hosts. 2 But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears?
“For he is like a refiner’s fire and like fullers’ soap; 3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.[/i][/b]

Are we ready?

And Revelation 19:7 [b][i]“Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns. 7 Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his Bride has made herself ready; 8 it was granted her to be clothed with fine linen, bright and pure”[/i][/b]

It seems that “made” and “ready” are the same words in the original; the Bride has “readied herself ready”. But she was “granted” the pure garments. For we have no righteousness of our own.

And Revelation 18:1-4 [b][i]1 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority; and the earth was made bright with his splendor. 2 And he called out with a mighty voice,
“Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great!
It has become a dwelling place of demons,
a haunt of every foul spirit,
a haunt of every foul and hateful bird; 3 for all nations have drunk the wine of her impure passion,
and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her,
and the merchants of the earth have grown rich with the wealth of her wantonness.”
4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying,
“Come out of her, my people,
lest you take part in her sins,
lest you share in her plagues;[/i][/b]

That is the other great cry that is sounding now from heaven [b]"COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE!"[/b]

Yours in our precious Lord

Jeannette

I [i]long[/i] to see God's glory manifested in unique way in changing lives. The awesome thing about true revival is that it is GOD doing the work, it is GOD breaking down the proud, it GOD bringing conviction of sin, it is GOD moving in a way that causes man to fall on his face and realize his nothingness and God's greatness. Revival isn't about us, it's about God and His glory.
It is good to examine [i]why[/i] we want revival and what our motives are. Do we want God to work in others because of the faults we see there or are we willing to go through anything that brings God glory? Are [i]we[/i] willing to be broken? Do we want to see revival just for the thrill of it? Just because we've heard and read about it and now we want the [i]experience[/i]? Oh, how man-centered can we be!
My heart yearns to see God magnified and see man put in his rightful place, the dust. I long for this in my life. It is [i]my[/i] heart motives that I must examine.
Thanks for hearing my heart on this. I agree with you, sister, about the Church needing to be ready...but even if that area, it is God who does the work in us.
"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and [b]to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy[/b],
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." Jude 24-25.

Thank you, all of you, for these wonderful comments. I confess I was a bit worried about what response this would receive because of the very negative reaction from the person I first broached it to privately. (probably it was unwise to talk about it before it had begun to crystalise in my own heart and mind)

And after all, this Forum is supposed to be majoring on prayer for revival, so suggesting that maybe we shouldn't do so was a bit....:-?

Then for ages there was no response at all ...Oh well...

So this was a lovely surprise and encouragement that maybe someone is listening and praying and considering these things!

Bless you!

In Him

Jeannette

It seems to put the whole thing re prayer for revival into perspective. What God is doing is so much bigger than what we understand as revival! The cry from heaven is "PREPARE THE WAY OF THE LORD!" because He is soon coming.

[b]In a way that has always been true, but there is a sense that it is imminent now.[/b]

That is the other great cry that is sounding now from heaven "COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE!"

AMEN!

[b]What is Revival?[/b]

The best definition that I’ve heard is "God stepping down from heaven" (read Isaiah 64:1-3). It is God coming to earth in all of His power, glory, holiness and love to cleanse and empower His Church, and to save the lost. Jonathan Edwards, speaking of the revival in 1740 in Northampton, said that you could feel the presence of God in the town. Charles Finney tells of towns which were experiencing revival had people cross into the border of the town, and feel the presence of God. Dr. Kingsley Priddy, a staff member of the Bible College of Wales, said in the book Rees Howells, Intercessor, that during the visitation that came to the college in the 1930’s people would walk in the garden talking in whispers because the presence of the Holy Spirit was so near.

Some revivals are nice and calm; such as, Asbury in 1970 and the Hebrides in 1949. Others are wild; such as, Azusa in 1906 and the campmeeting revivals in Kentucky in 1800. Revival, I guess, really can’t be defined by what happens. It is more easily defined by its source—God.

In some revivals, people sit quietly, experiencing the peace and love of God. In others, people sing and rejoice, dance and shout. There are at times manifestations which seem unusual. They are called various things, but they have happened frequently enough in true revivals that we shouldn’t worry about it when they happen. Revivals often have themes: prayer, holiness, repentance, joy, empowerment. They are usually all present in one way or another in each revival, but normally one theme is predominant.

What are the results of revivals? First and foremost, the church is cleansed. Christians that have been bound with sin for years find themselves set free to serve God with all of their heart. Second, souls are saved—in large numbers.

from: http://www.smithworks.org/stephen/revival/whatis.html

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[b]What is Revival and Spiritual Awakening?[/b]

I have been a student of revival and spiritual awakening since I was converted to Christ in 1985 as part of a church outreach ministry to young adults in Boston. Since that time, I have been in the middle of several movements that have been called "revivals" in Russia, Ukraine, Latin America and even parts of the United States. The Holy Spirit orchestrated these movements, but there was also something lacking. While the Great Awakening of the 18th century transformed America's cultural landscape, recent "revivals," such as those during the time of D.L. Moody and Billy Sunday, have been deficient in this quality.

We can always be hopeful for another Great Awakening because God himself has promised that these events will always occur in human history. God is taking us toward a time "when the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him who sows seed; the mountains shall drip with sweet wine, and all the hills shall flow with it." (Amos 9:13). In other words, there will one day be a time of universal revival. In fact, the Bible is rife with prophecies stating that someday there will be a revival that never needs to be revived.

A common misrepresentation of the word, "revival," is a planned evangelistic meeting or program. In the historic understanding of the word, revival begins with the recovery of the Lord's testimony in a given generation. The resulting effect of the revived Church on society with large numbers of people being converted is termed a "spiritual awakening."

Author and pastor, Paul Jehle explains, "Many revivals have stopped short of their full potential because God's people had a goal of simply being revived themselves. The goal of true revival is more than church meetings, souls or sensitivity to spiritual things. The goal of true revival is a long-term vision for covenant faithfulness to our children's children."

Similarly, David L. McKenna, president of Asbury Theological Seminary writes: "If the church is to be revived, it will be a multigenerational experience which brings together the visions of the young, the prophecies of the adult and the dreams of the elderly. Rather than stifling the energies of the young, we should set them free with the balance of the prophetic Word and a sense of history. They are the fuel for the engine of revival."

Looking at social trends, some may doubt that we are on the verge another Great Awakening. However, when we look at history, we see that spiritual awakening always occurs after a time of deep moral decline in the churches.

Revival expert Jeff Ziegler notes, "When moral decline is at its most rampant then the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ dawns upon the elect in unusual power and His character is recovered and expressed among His people. Among the society, spiritual awakening occurs when there is great spiritual darkness among the people. When the greatness of Christ's glorified testimony is revived in the Church, the lost are awakened in large number."

We should also realize that there is revival happening all over the world today. There are spiritual awakenings that have swept hundreds of millions of people into the Kingdom of God within the last few decades. There is revival in Africa, Latin America, Eastern Europe, China, the South Pacific Islands, and Southeast Asia. The sheer volume of people coming to know Christ in this "World Awakening" not only rivals but also even surpasses what happened in America in centuries past.

As we turn to look at our own nation and Western Europe, we see that the supposedly "Christian" nations of the world today are sadly deficient in terms of revival experience. Nevertheless, in times of great darkness in America's past revival has dawned bringing new light and hope. So we can hope and pray for a Great Awakening in America, which will surpass all past experience.

Today in America, we are in the midst of a spiritual awakening among young people. As a high school English teacher, I have used some of the articles that appear in this magazine with my students. It seems absolutely normal to these young people to read about God in class. This is a big change from my high school experience and what I saw as a teacher only a few years ago.

In fact, this generation thinks about spiritual reality far more than any recent generation in America's history. They lack only leadership. Every youth evangelist I have spoken with agrees that this is the most spiritually open generation of young people that they have ever seen. There is already an awakening among youth. Every revival starts like this. As one revivalist wrote: "The youth are the kindling that set fire to the old logs."

from: http://forerunner.com/boston/X0008_Revival_and_Spiritua.html

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Ps 85:6
Will you not revive us again, that your people may rejoice in you?

Psalm 145:4-6, 11-13
4 One generation will commend your works to another; they will tell of your mighty acts.
5 They will speak of the glorious splendour of your majesty, and I will meditate on your wonderful works.
6 They will tell of the power of your awesome works, and I will proclaim your great deeds.

11 They will tell of the glory of your kingdom and speak of your might,
12 so that all men may know of your mighty acts and the glorious splendour of your kingdom.
13 Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and your dominion endures through all generations. The LORD is faithful to all his promises and loving towards all he has made.

Isa 64:1-3
1 Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down, that the mountains would tremble before you!
2 As when fire sets twigs ablaze and causes water to boil, come down to make your name known to your enemies and cause the nations to quake before you!
3 For when you did awesome things that we did not expect, you came down, and the mountains trembled before you.

Hab 3:2-6
LORD, I have heard of your fame; I stand in awe of your deeds, O LORD. Renew them in our day, in our time make them known; in wrath remember mercy.
3 God came from Teman, the Holy one from Mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens and his praise filled the earth.
4 His splendor was like the sunrise; rays flashed from his hand, where his power was hidden.
5 Plague went before him; pestilence followed his steps.
6 He stood, and shook the earth; he looked, and made the nations tremble.

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[b]WHAT IS REVIVAL? -finney[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15091&forum=40

[b]What is Revival? -lloyd jones[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15092&forum=40

[b]Quotes about Revival[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15093&forum=40

[b]Revival?
Further thoughts, part 1[/b]

There are many understandings of what “Revival” is. I think it was Canon Bill Butler, (or Roy Hessian, can't remember), who was involved in the aftermath of the East African Revival, who said: “I had the idea that revival was the top blowing off (a lot of excitement etc), but actually it was the bottom falling out (deep conviction of sin and brokenness before God).

Many, both white missionaries and Africans came to a deep repentance in those days.

I believe these things very firmly:

1. We have little time left. The Lord is coming soon. Woe to us if He comes and finds us not prepared!

2. He will not return for a weak and spiritually impoverished Bride. However, I believe that the teaching that the Church will take over the world and prepare it for His coming is a “doctrine of demons” and very dangerous.

3. There will be terrible times over the whole earth before Jesus returns – even worse than we have seen so far (there are many scriptures for this, especially 2 Thessalonians 2).

4. He will not return for an unclean Bride.

5. The Lord will return for a Bride who has made herself ready, and has nothing to do with the counterfeit, harlot church.

So the Lord has to do something to ensure that she gets ready! Whether we will call it “Revival” I don’t know.

in Him

Jeannette

[b]Further thoughts, part 2[/b]

How, or even perhaps whether, to intercede for revival (however we understand it) depends on what days we are living in.

In a sense the Last Days began with the Incarnation, when Jesus walked as a man among men (Hebrews 1;1f), but I doubt if any would deny that we are much nearer the End now than then. Many of the “signs of the times” have been fulfilled to a degree they have never been before. Some of us might even be still on earth at His Second Coming (or the Rapture, whichever comes first). The Antichrist may even be already born, for the Bible says he, the counterfeit Christ, comes first.

This has to affect how we intercede. Daniel prayed in response to reading Jeremiah’s prophecy of the Exile lasting 70 years. He realised the time was at hand and prayed in the light of that.

We must also understand the signs of the times in our generation and intercede accordingly.

As part of the answer, to what and how to intercede, I was given Isaiah 40 following. In other words the answer is in the last section of Isaiah, chapters 40-66. I don’t know what specific verses are relevant precisely. Maybe reading them will make certain ones "light up", but I know the answer is "in there somewhere". Also in other Scriptures of course, but this seemed to be the starting point.

Of course, these Scriptures were originally relating to Israel only, and it is also relevant to this nation and people who are still a huge part of God’s plans for the earth. But there are many layers of meaning in His Word, and more than one fulfilment of a prophecy.

For example, some verses that stood out:

Isaiah 42:
8 I am the LORD, that is My name;
And My glory I will not give to another,
Nor My praise to carved images.
9 Behold, the former things have come to pass,
And new things I declare;
Before they spring forth I tell you of them.”

Isaiah 43 (the context is the Lord protecting and providing for His people)

18 “Do not remember the former things,
Nor consider the things of old.
19 Behold, I will do a new thing,
Now it shall spring forth;
Shall you not know it?...

Isaiah 66:

22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the LORD,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the LORD.
24 “And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.

Love in Him

jeannette

Mattie wrote:
The essence of revival is Jesus, and seeing the Law of God fulfilled through His people - to love Him with all of our hearts, minds, and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourself. That's the essence of an outpouring. God makes this our consuming passion because we receive a greater glimpse and an understanding by the Spirit of how great a Savior we have.

If we don't have love, we've got nothing - just religion, selfish zeal and words. But no power

Forgot to say thanks for this challenge. You are soooo right :oops: Though it obviously wasn't meant personally I take it to heart.

Think I've said enough!

Jeannette xxx

Hi Doug, just trying to comment on some aspects of some of the earlier replies.

John173 wrote:
I know myself there are things I feel He shows me that I would have difficulty imparting to others.

As for my own prayer re revival, I am much more concerned with the lukewarm church of Laodicia than with the lost.

Me too, that has been a special burden since the early 1980's when I first came across the concept of intercession.

I have a rather prophetic edge to my walk with the Lord. By this I don't mean to say that I am a prophet, at least not in the sense of fortelling, it is just that I feel called to cry aloud. To warn. To shout out "wake up!" Can you not see your need?

I do long for revival, but for me it is for an interior revival for the church. I don't know if this fits in with what the Lord is saying to you.

Thanks Bro.

Jeannette

Roniya wrote:
I [i]long[/i] to see God's glory manifested in unique way in changing lives. The awesome thing about true revival is that it is GOD doing the work, it is GOD breaking down the proud, it GOD bringing conviction of sin, it is GOD moving in a way that causes man to fall on his face and realize his nothingness and God's greatness. [i][b]Revival isn't about us, it's about God and His glory. [/b][/i]

YES!!!

It is good to examine [i]why[/i] we want revival and what our motives are. Do we want God to work in others because of the faults we see there or are we willing to go through anything that brings God glory? Are [i]we[/i] willing to be broken? Do we want to see revival just for the thrill of it? Just because we've heard and read about it and now we want the [i]experience[/i]? Oh, how man-centered can we be!
My heart yearns to see God magnified and see man put in his rightful place, the dust. I long for this in my life. It is [i]my[/i] heart motives that I must examine.
Thanks for hearing my heart on this. I agree with you, sister, about the Church needing to be ready...but even if that area, it is God who does the work in us.
"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and [b]to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy[/b],
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." Jude 24-25.

Jeannette

John173 wrote:
Dear Jeannette,

I've been muling over this notion of revival being too small a prayer, the idea that the Lord wants to do something bigger than our notions of revival. I was considering Jesus prayer recorded in John 17, verse 21: [color=0000CC]that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.[/color]

Can you get your mind around revival inside the church consisting of the body repenting in tears over our divisiveness? Somehow this notion seems like an even greater miracle than any revival in history. Hmmm, something to ponder indeed. And following on the heals of this inner revival is the end of the verse, that the world may come to know...

Now that's what I call a revival!

In His Love,

Doug

Yes indeed, Doug. I mentioned the East African Revival in a recent post today. Repentance was the main thing there. they majored on "walking in the light" with one another. The "revival chorus that they always sang was (in the English version)
[i][b][color=000099]Glory, glory Hallelujah
Glory glory to the Lamb
For the cleansing Blood has reached me
Glory, glory to the Lamb"[/color][/b][/i]

It did get a bit one-sided after a while, too much unnecessery confessing and repenting for example, but at the time there was a very deep work in many hearts.

I worked in Western Uganda in the 1970's, where the Ankole cattle come from, (similar to Texas longhorns perhaps only with horns even longer, and not the same shape - their milk is incredibly rich but they only give about a gallon or so a day!) It was a paradise for a biology teacher!

One memory was of sitting in the local pastor's house during the lunch break at one of the special monthly meetings they held. There were a few of us white ladies, and three elderly Ugandan men on a sofa opposite. (A friend translated, as I never picked up enough of the language to understand a conversation.) They were talking about how, before the revival there was no way they would have sat together, being of two opposing tribes. ...And as for sitting with a white person!!!! Then they hugged each other and rolled around on the sofa laughing like schoolboys!

Its such a temptation to look back and get nostalgic for days past - I get homesick for Africa, but whether the Lord will let me go back is another matter.

We can learn from the past, but also need to look forward.

In Him

Jeannette