query...what say ye?

1)Man of God is trying to enter a communist country with Bibles, where the Gospel and Bibles are forbidden. He is now trying to further the Gospel and fulfill the great commission by going into this country. At the point of entry, the customs officer or security bureau asks the man of God a direct question: "Are you bringing into the country any religious literature", to which he lies and says "no", also upon entry he was asked directly the purpose of his visit, to which he replies, "tourism".

2) Man of God lives in communist country. From his youth he has seen miracles of God performed for his family, and has personally experienced the intervention of God. While he continues to spread the Gospel, he becomes a wanted man. All the while he sees' Gods' divine intervention in his life and ministry. Once upon being caught by the police he feigns lunacy and also lies under direct questioning to avoid capture, and persecution not only for him but for others also.

Q. Anything wrong with either of these two scenarios?
Q. When does God look the other way or wink at sin?
Q. Is it a sin?

Please help me with my confusion here.

awatchman :-(

My apologies if this has been discussed previously.

The Lord knew that scenarios like that would come up when He forbid lying.

I do not know the source of your information....but I will ask you are you 100% certain this is true?

Let me tell you a true story....quite a few years ago, maybe 35, we had a man who smuggled Bibles and other lit into the USSR and other commnunists countries speak in our church - he was the late David Bontrager. He had stories to tell just like Brother Andrew shares in his book "God's Smuggler". I asked Bro. Bontrager's secretary about allegations like you just mentioned. She said those are not true. What happens is the guards cannot understand how this lit gets by them and so they will say this. But no, they do not lie, at least Bro. Bontrager did not.

Mind if I say another story?..one not necessarily along the same vein...Bro. Bontrager and his wife Amy built an addition to their home to house the many visitors that came by, many from Communists countries. Some they knew, but not all. One day a strager came by and asked for lodging and being the good people they were they allowed him to stay and he did for three weeks until one day he vanished. Later they discovered he was a KGB agent! (Bro. Bontrager's grandson married my first cousin..so I got this straight!)

Anyhow, this is how one person did it...cannot speak for all Bible smugglers...

ginnyrose

[b]Josh 2:4[/b] And the woman took the two men, and hid them; and she said, Yea, the men came unto me, but I wist not whence they were:

Rahab lied but, By faith Rahab the harlot perished not with them that were disobedient, having received the spies with peace. [b]Hebrews 11: 31[/b]
&
[b]James 2:25[/b] And in like manner was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works, in that she received the messengers, and sent them out another way?

I tried to answer earlier while I was at work, but the internet went down.

Brother Andrew's book 'God's Smuggler.' Brother Andrew originally applied for a visa as a missionary but was refused and went back and applied as a 'teacher' and was accepted... he wasn't lying, just using a different word.

Brother Yun's book 'The Heavenly Man.' Brother Yun never rejected his Lord and Savior despite constant imprisonment and several near brushes with death. He was able to see that despite the apparent power that the Chinese Communist government had, that it was in fact the Lord Jesus that had all the power -Brother Yun never denied his savior. Thank God that he was able to find a way out of China and share his testimony with us in the West.

I agree that maybe the first scenario is not real. I have also read God's Smuggler by Brother Andrew, and I don't think he ever used deception of that type.
There are multiple occasions in the Bible where some type of deception is used, and it is not condemned either. The midwives in Egypt lied to protect the babies and God blessed their homes. David's lunacy has already been mentioned. When I read the account of Paul being brought before the council composed of both Pharisees and Sadducees, he seems somewhat deceptive as well. He said that the issue was all about the resurrection of the dead, which it was, but not the way the Pharisees and Sadducees thought he meant it.
Certainly, we must take all of the Word of God into account and there are clear prohibitions against deception. Still, I am not convinced by these pat answers that we must never lie.
I am hesitant to condemn spiritual giants like Corrie Ten Boom, Brother Andrew, and Brother Yun. These saints operated under the power of God and exemplified a life of holiness. Therefore, these issues may not be as they first appear.

Athanasius

I must agree with dorcas:

If I was smuggling Bibles into a country where it was forbidden, and they asked me if I had any religious material, I would tell them:

"no, I hate religion!"

And if I was arrested, I don't know that I would fake lunacy, but if I knew they would release me if I faked lunacy, you better believe it. There are some countries where insane people are viewed as special to the gods there.

I don't believe either of those two to be lying.

However, answering direct questions with lies is wrong, but as demonstrated earlier, your answer to their question will depend on your point of view.

However when it comes to questioning, I say this, "silence is golden, unless the Spirit tells you what to say."

For clarification: the first example is not from any book. I know this man of God personally. He is one of the Godliest men I know. A true prayer warrior and very biblically sound and learned. So I did not get this second hand and he is not the type to jest about the things of God. In our conversation he even admitted this is a topic of debate.

In the book the "The Heavenly Man", Bro Yun did not deny his Savior but in his attempt to save himself and others he faked lunacy (which I have no problem with), but he did go around verbally stating that he doesn't know these people or there whereabouts.

Let me also say I am seriously thinking about this issue. I did not post lightly. As men/women of God our yeas' should be yea and nay- nay. We should be above reproach in conduct and conversation. If we are ministers of the gospel and we are doing the will of God (with a right heart) then God will move sovereignly work/move in your life and others, to see the furtherance of the gospel. Just like He did for Bro Yun in China many times. The Lord doesn't need human effort (deceit) to get the gospel out.

Like when I was in bible college and our personal evangelism course was based on a lie. Was it no wonder that the conversion rate was almost nil, and the bible study ploy being used for home entrance was NIL. God will not honor such things.

GOD DOESN'T WINK AT SIN.

A reply from a very good friend and devout man of God.

Bro Mike,...Was Rahab wrong when she hid and then 'lied" about the wherabouts of the 2 spies??....Was David being deceitful when he "scrabbled and spittled" before Achish the King of Gath?? (1 Sam 21:10-15) Were the brethren wrong when they helped Paul escape and lowered him down the city wall through a window that he avoid capture and murder??...Point being that as an example, the principal of "murder" is wrong, but in a time of war its permissible to "kill". Is it wrong to take the Gospel at "any cost"(lying to authorities) to a closed country for the sake of the salvation of lost eternal souls??.... Whats the "higher" law and principle?? When David and his men ate of the "shewbread" which was "unlawful" for them to eat (it was only to be eaten by the priests) in order to feed themselves in a time of crisis , then the higher law of "mercy" overroad the lower law of who the bread was intended for. If I came to Christ because a missionary "lied" to authorities to reach me, To me, It would'nt be an issue!...God bless my dear Brother!...Bro ********* (You may post this answer on Dakes Forum if you wish)
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For thus hath the LORD said unto me, Go, set a watchman, let him declare what he seeth. Isaiah 21:6

The issue as I understand it is is it right to say a lie for any reason? even to save another person's life?

Brother, as a person who works to be truthful in all I do or say, I find this issue a tad bit disturbing - although one that needs to be considered; it is like asking is it ok to sin depending on certain circumstrances?

Can we not see that not all questions are worthy of being answered? Can we not do as Jesus did, listen carefully and ask one in return? or not say anything at all? or just wait and see how the LORD would have you answer a tricky question? Many times when counseling clients at CPC I did not know what to say. Our training did not prepare us for all the situations we encountered. But I have learned to be quiet and rest in the Holy Spirit and at the proper time He would give me words to say. Afterwards I would be in awe.....I made no point in remembering whatI said because I know the Holy Spirit would do it again: it was his work anyways and all I was is a vessel. Perhaps one should consider this issue in the same manner? Just be content to be a vessel through whom the Holy Spirit will speak and not worry about it, except for perhaps fear that you may take matters into your own hands and foul things up.

My thoughts...

ginnyrose

Rahab did some serious lying. Notice, for this "deception" she is mentioned with honor in James, and as a faith exemplifier in Hebrews.

Brother Paul

In other words, Rahab recognised the higher power of the God whom they served, and using her spiritual intelligence, she believed in Him

Yes, sister. It seems unlikely that Rahab received direct corespondance from God, like in the manner of a Balaam. But somehow she [i]knew[/i] and recognized the all-sovereign God of the Hebrews and that victory over Jericho was certain. What's even more amazing is that she risked her life for this knowledge (without a Bible) while in sin. I like how you said she used her "spiritual intelligence," for the notion of risking something as radical and dangerous as she did - aiding and abeting the "enemy" and then bald-faced lying to the regal authorities - could only be provoked by a premonition so dire and real that God must have birthed it in her spirit. This thought of "hiding the enemy" wasn't a mere whim.

You gave us some good thoughts!

Brother Paul