Healing

Ben I am with you man, Healing is for all (ACTS 10:38 Psalm 103:3) if jesus did something over 2000 years ago he will do it today he is the same yesterday today and forever. For example Salvation is for all John 3:16 but not everyone is saved, Why is that. Well just like healing one must receive it.We all including myself have to take the word for what it is we can't make is say what we want based on our circumstances or problems remember Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Remember God and his word are one John 1:1-3. if his word forms a foundation for healing then lets stick with that if you don't believe it God bless I will not talk or say anything negative about your beliefs because I love you.Ben I don't fell that you are coming down hard on folks for what you believe you just have a zeal for what is right. also all of us on this sight need to not beat up on Ben for what he believes. I believe in healing because it is in the old and new testament you can see the doctrine in the whole bible. God Bless everyone and and lets continue in the word and pray that the holy spirit teach all of us because there is so much we don't know. love you all.

[b]Word of Faith[/b] doctrine... consider it marked. (Romans 16:17)

Why did God not heal Paul? Did Paul lack faith?

Why does everyone die eventually? If healing is for all, and God desires to heal everyone... why isnt there anyone thats 2,000 years old? In all that time there wasnt [b]one[/b] person who had enough faith?

There is enough truth mixed in with your error that it is extremely subtle, and most here will not catch it. So let me make this loud and clear... this is Word of Faith doctrine.

God does heal, no doubt. But not in the manner that you are espousing. This WOF doctrine is to be rejected and denounced.

This is NOT a personal attack on you, dont misunderstand me. But false doctrine needs to be nipped in the bud fast.

Mark and avoid, brethren.

Krispy

PS This should boost my popularity... :roll:

mmm this is an thread out of the thread "time square church"...basicly if we get sick its our own fault...becuse we lack faith...and if someone does not get healed it is also lack of faith....

WOF is more complicated than that... but thats basically it in a nutshell.

Funny that Paul was never healed. God told Paul "...My [b]grace is sufficient[/b] for thee: for my strength is made perfect in [b]weakness[/b]."

What was Paul's response to God? Was it "give me more faith so that You would heal me?"

Nope... Paul responded with: "Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my [b]infirmities[/b], that the power of Christ may rest upon me."

Krispy

The bible does not state that Paul’s thorn was a sickness or disease.

I do not believe that Paul needed healing.

Also, in reference to Paul, it says nowhere that he was sick, or had a disease. Theologians believe that often.

Oh boy... :roll:

First you state that theologians back up your assertions... and then in the next paragraph you say:

You can't just accept theologians word for everything.

Which is it, Ben? You're losing credibility real fast. In essence, what you're saying is: "If a theologian believes what I believe, then they are right. But if they dont believe what I believe, then they are wrong."

And as far as the greek is concerned... which greek?

Krispy

Let's suppose for a minute that what Paul was referring to was [i]not[/i] physical illness. The fact is, the word "infirmity" is being used here. And before everyone says "but the greek says...!" ... the word is a correct translation. (most who defer to the greek dont know anything about greek anyway).

What is the definition of the word "infirmity"?

[b]INFIRMITY[/b]
[i]1. a physical weakness or ailment: the infirmities of age.
2. quality or state of being infirm; lack of strength.
3. a moral weakness or failing.[/i]

Now, infirmity can be illness, or it can be a poor state of living (i.e. beatings, persecution etc.), or it can be moral failings.

Paul does not say which it is for sure. Many believe it was an eye problem that was residual from the blindness he experienced at his conversion. And the Bible is also quite clear that some spiritual oppression can bring on physical illness. Yet I doubt that Paul would leave himself open to demonic oppression because that would contradict the vast majority of his writings concerning how we as Christians should live. If you live your life according to the Bible, and love God with all your heart... the devil will [b]flee[/b] from you! Not oppress you.

I believe that the "messenger" from Satan was the same thing as what Job experienced, but on a smaller scale. Job experienced more infirmities than anyone in history. And some of those infirmities were illnesses.

This "messanger" that Paul experienced [b]was[/b] more than likely an illness of some sort. Why did God allow this? I believe the keep Paul humble. That's why God said "My grace is sufficient for you"... to remind Paul that without the grace of God... Paul was nothing. It was God's grace that sustained him. That strengthened him. Nothing Paul had done in his flesh could do for him what God's grace could.

Of course, many of Paul's infirmities did come in the form of persecution... but Paul counted it [b]all joy[/b] to be persecuted for the Lord's sake. He didnt see persecution as a bad thing. He had the right perspective. Of course, no one looks forward to being stoned to death, or whipped, or shipwrecked... but in each instance Paul was singing the praises of God, and using these situations as an opportunity to preach the gospel.

So tho persecution was an "infirmity" that Paul endured... not one time do we see Paul asking the Lord to remove it from him. In fact, he welcomed it.

So here is Paul... asking [b]three[/b] times for the Lord to remove this particular "infirmity". God answered "no". I believe it was an illness of some sort. I believe Paul was sick of feeling sick, and also believed that this illness hindered him from ministering even more than he was. So he requested God to remove it from him.

Of course, the health & wealth crowd say "it wasnt an illness!". What else are they going to say? To admit that God didnt heal Paul is to shatter the entire theology of the heretical WOF movement. So they say "you need to check the greek!" This is a smoke and mirrors move. They know full well the average Christian doesnt know greek, much less even have a greek Bible in their house. It's a way of getting people who disagree with them to shut up. Kinda like when people start in on Benny Hinn... ol' Benny yells "Touch not the Lord's annointed" and then begin to pronounce curses on their critics.

I say God's Word is clear. If you take 2 Corinthians 12 in context of the entire NT (I know taking things in context is a new concept for some people... but you should really try it), and then use a little deductive reasoning... it's easy to see why more theologians... and lay people like me... have come to the correct conclusion that Paul suffered some sort of physical illness.

And God chose, according to His perfect will, not to heal him.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear: [b]GOD CAN... AND GOD DOES... HEAL TODAY. BUT AS ALWAYS, IT IS ACCORDING TO HIS PERFECT WILL.[/b]

Look at the ministry that people Joni Erikson Tada has had for 3 decades due to her infirmity. Are you health and wealth people going to tell her that she hasnt been healed because she lacks faith? If you ask me, that borders blasphemey because if it was God's will not to heal her, then you are speaking against God.

Again... I ask... if it's God's will to heal all believers (who have enough faith) then where are all the 2,000 year old believers? Why did Catherine Kuhlman die at a young age of cancer? She was supposedly a faith healer... where was her healing?

C'mon folks... little horse sense is all that it takes to see thru all this.

Krispy

Listen you missed the point. Point is the word says God heals. I did not say anyone lacked faith or Paul why paul did not get healed matter of fact a lot of folks on this sight are quick Judge which amazes me. The point is that if God is God he can heal and if we are christains we are not to bash each others brains out. This is not health and wealth I am talking about like some preachers I believe that our focus should be God and we should totally seek him

I totally agree with you on that there has to be a balance. I hate when someone says that you did not get something because of your lack of faith. and the dependancy on God thing is on point he is to be the focus of our life I love what Jesus said in mark 11:22 when he said have faith in God not faith in yourself or someone else but in God.

Ben... you've been cornered on this, and similar topics like it, before. What you are espousing on this site is WOF heresy.

As I said when I originally responded... consider these teachings marked. It's false doctrine.

It's a waste of time to debate this with you because you dont listen, and once you feel cornered you declare everyone wrong, and then you run.

Krispy