John chapter 8

What is the theme of John chapter 8?

The place is next to the treasury in the Temple. The time of Jesus's lesson takes place during the Feast of Tabernacle.

In Christ
Jeff

Here is a short explanation that I found on the internet concerning John chapters 7 and 8. This is an explanation of the ceremony that Jesus witnessed during the Feast of Tabernacles in Jerusalem.

"The setting of John 7 and 8 is Jesus' visit to Jerusalem for the Feast of Tabernacles. If John 7:53-8:11 is set aside for the moment, the three dialogs of this lesson all take place on the last day of the Festival. Understanding some of the rituals and the Feast of Tabernacles in Jesus' time provide important background for the material in our lesson. The Jews had held the Feast of Tabernacles in special esteem for almost a thousand years when the events of the text took place. First Kings 8:2 indicates that the dedication of Solomon's temple (approximately 960 B.C.) took place in conjunction with the Feast of the Tabernacles. For that reason the Jews - even in Jesus' time - saw a special connection between the temple and the Feast of Tabernacles.

Two ceremonies that were part of Tabernacles' celebration during Jesus' time are especially important in the context of John 7 and 8. The first involved water and the second involved light. Because Tabernacles was a fall, agricultural festival special prayers for rain were made during this celebration (see Hebrew/Jewish Calendar). If rain would fall at the time of Tabernacles or shortly afterwards it was seen as an indication of ample Fall rains that would prepare and restore the soil for a successful crop the following year. Zechariah 10:1 contains instructions to pray for rain. Zechariah 14:17 warns that rain will be withheld if Tabernacles is not properly celebrated. It is likely that Zechariah's vision of the fountain of waters overflowing out of Jerusalem is to be understood as an expression of the abundant rain for which Jews prayed at Tabernacles time.

A special ceremony was held each day of the Feast to dramatize this prayer for rain. A procession went from the temple down to the spring of Gihon at the southeast corner of the base of the temple mountain. A priest filled a golden pitcher with about two pints of the spring’s water. As the people sang Isaiah 12:3, "With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation," the procession returned with the pitcher to the temple compound. Each of the people in the procession carried a clump of myrtle and willow sticks tied with a palm in one hand and a lemon or citron in the other hand. The willow sticks reminded them of the huts or tabernacles in which Israel had lived in the wilderness. The lemon or citron was a sign of harvest.

As they entered the temple area the procession began to sing the Hallel Psalms (Psalms 113-118). The procession went around the large altar for the burnt offerings and the priest poured the pitcher of water into a funnel that took the water through the altar to the ground. As the singers finished Psalm 118 they gave a great shout and waved their palm leaves toward the altar. This dramatic ritual of the water pouring was done each of the first seven morning of the Feast of Tabernacles. On the seventh day, the procession went around the great altar seven times before the water was poured out. This ceremony was a vivid expression of thanksgiving to God for the gift of rain, a dramatic prayer for rain, and a powerful reminder of the way God brought water from the rock as Israel had traveled in the wilderness.

The second dramatic ceremony associated with Tabernacles was the Illumination of the Temple. On the evening of the first day of Tabernacles four great candleholders were placed in the center of the Court of the Women. When it was dark all the candles were lit. Ancient witnesses claimed that the candles sent a blaze of light throughout all of Jerusalem. As Barclay states, "The Festival of Tabernacles was a time then that the blaze of the Temple lights illumined the city and pierced the darkness of its squares and courts and lanes." Throughout the night the spiritual leaders of the Jews sang psalms of praise and celebration and danced before the Lord. There was a strong symbolism that relationship with God was a light that illumined all of Jerusalem and penetrated all the darkness of the soul."

Imagine what it would have been like when Jesus identified Himself as the source of both living water and the light of life.

In Christ
Jeff

When the scribes and priests heard the words of Jesus, what Scriptures might have pricked their hearts?

Job 33:28 He will redeem his soul from going down to the Pit, and his life shall see the light.

Job 33:30 To bring back his soul from the Pit, that he may be enlightened with the light of life.

Psalm 27:1 The Lord is my light and my salvation; Whom shall I fear? The Lord is the strength of my life; Of whom shall I be afraid?

Psalm 36:9 For with You is the fountain of life; In Your light we see light.

Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp and the law a light; reproofs of instruction are the way of life.

Psalm 68:26 Bless God in the congregations, The Lord, from the fountain of Israel.

Proverbs 13:14 The law of the wise is a fountain of life, to turn one away from the snares of death.

Proverbs 14:27 The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, to turn one away from the snares of death.

Jeremiah 2:13 "For My people have committed two evils; they have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, and hewn themselves cisterns--broken cisterns that can hold no water."

Jeremiah 17:13 O Lord, the hope of Israel, all who forsake You shall be ashamed. "Those who depart from Me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters."

Zech. 13:1 "In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness."

The things that Jesus witnessed of Himself fomented emnity between Him and the rules of Israel that day. The emnity was great enough that those leaders would even forsake their own laws to expedite the killing of this man...

This emnity reminds me of the covenant God made with Satan in Genesis 3:15.

In Christ
Jeff

Quote:

"Imagine what it would have been like when Jesus identified Himself as the source of both living water and the light of life."

In Christ
Jeff

This is exactly what happens when Christ is Born Again in the believer.

Jhn 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

He is truly the light of Life by His Spirit that is Born Again in us.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Being born again by the Word of God. John 1:1-4 He is the Word and the living Water of New Life in Christ Jesus.

Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Ephesians 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

We are without blemish by the Holiness of Christ in us the Hope of Glory.

Ephesians 5:30-32 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

We are One with God through Jesus Christ and His birth in us. Hence son's of God.

In Christ: Phillip

John 8:37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father.”

John 8:39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Jesus declares " “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. "

Do you see what Jesus identifies as the root of the hatred that has grown in those who want to kill Him?

Then Jesus declares, "41 You do the deeds of your father.”

In Genesis 3:15 we hear...

15 \tAnd I will put enmity
\tBetween you and the woman,
\tAnd between your seed and her Seed;
\tHe shall bruise your head,
\tAnd you shall bruise His heel.”

Do you see that these men who accuse Jesus are the "seed" of Satan?

This is one precept that we find in John 8.

In Christ
Jeff

Brother Phillip wrote:

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

He is truly the light of Life by His Spirit that is Born Again in us.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Being born again by the Word of God. John 1:1-4 He is the Word and the living Water of New Life in Christ Jesus.

Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Ephesians 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

We are without blemish by the Holiness of Christ in us the Hope of Glory.

Ephesians 5:30-32 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

We are One with God through Jesus Christ and His birth in us. Hence son's of God.

How does this fit in this thread, John chapter 8?

In Christ
Jeff

John 8:52-53 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

YES!!

John 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

John 8:48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

John 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

John 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

John 8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.

John 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

The only Way: John 3:16-19 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

In Christ: Phillip

Brother Phillip quoted from John 3...

Brother how does your thought coorespond with these words of Jesus?

John 8:39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

In Christ
Jeff

John 8:33-36 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

They were not free in Abraham's works. They could only be free in The Son.

In The Son: Phillip

Brother Phillip wrote:

They were not free in Abraham's works. They could only be free in The Son.

Look again to what Jesus said...

John 8:39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Jesus points out that they indeed are not Abraham's children. If they were the seed of Abraham they would do the works of Abraham.

But instead Jesus said...

John 8:37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father.”

Jesus points to the fact that the men before Him have as their seed Satan.

You see the difference between the decendants of Abraham and the children of Abraham is this...those who are the children have the words of Jesus as their guide.

Jesus points out to them...

47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

So we know that Abraham heard God's words and that is what distinguishes those who are set free from those whose father is Satan.

But all of this is getting ahead of why I started this thread...

In Christ
Jeff

In Genesis 3:15 we hear...

15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Again, above is the covenant that God spoke to Satan...

And now listen to the words of Jesus...

John 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

What is the genesis that brings seperation between the seed of Satan and the Seed of the woman? Look carefully to what Jesus identifies as source from which men become the children of Satan or the children of God...

In Christ
Jeff

John 8

43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word.

47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Paul writes of the same precept in Romans 10:

Rom. 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The scribes and Pharisee that stood before Jesus were indeed zealous...just as Paul describes...

2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.

Jesus identifies what is lacking in the decendants of Abraham that stand before Him. They have chosen not to submit to the word of God. They have had the Scriptures all their lives yet lack knowledge. Instead they have chosen to listen to another that speaks....

John 8

44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

When sin entered the world it came through the words of Satan. Those who choose to hear his words become like him.

Those who choose to hear what Scripture says to their heart, these become the children of Abraham and thus grow in the likeness of the Seed.

In Christ
Jeff

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Verse 9. And think not to say, etc. They regarded it, as sufficient righteousness that they were descended from so holy a man as Abraham. They deemed it as such an honour that it would go far to justify all his descendants, Joh 8:33-37,53. John assured them that this was a matter of small consequence in the sight of God. Of the very stones of the Jordan he could raise up children to Abraham. The meaning seems to be this: God, from these stones, could more easily raise up those who should be worthy children of Abraham, or be like him, than simply because you are descendants of Abraham make you, who are proud and hypocritical, subjects of the Messiah's kingdom. Or, mere nativity, or the privileges of birth, avail nothing where there is not righteousness of life.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

It is Christ that saves not Abraham.

In Christ: Phillip

Brother Phillip wrote:

It is Christ that saves not Abraham.

Absolutely...that is why you will find both of these statements contained within John 8..

12 "Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world, he who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life."

58 "Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

You see Scripture teaches us that Abraham's Seed is the promise. Abraham is given to us as an example of where faith leads those who hear and do what God speaks to them...He is the light of the world and for those who follow Him, they will not walk in darkness.

Brother Phillip do you see what the words of Jesus say here in John chapter 8?

In Christ
Jeff

We have gone back and forth about Abraham's Faith and the Faith of Jesus Christ. Abraham's Faith believed God that He would be the father of many nations. That is because of the Promise of God that the Gentiles would be saved by Faith in Jesus Christ the Seed. Abraham's faith is not the same faith that we have been given by Jesus Christ unto salvation of the Body of Christ. Because Abraham believed God it was accounted to him as righteousness, not because his faith was that of Jesus Christ, because that faith had not come. Our Faith by Jesus Christ makes us the same as Abraham's faith to believe God for the Promise, which was the Seed, and us to believe Jesus Christ and His Faith that would save the Gentiles, when it came, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Galatians 3:20-27 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. (((But before faith came,))) we were kept under the law, (((shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.))) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (((But after that faith is come,))) we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

So it was not Abraham's faith that would bring us to Christ, but like not being the same but the faith of Jesus Christ that would justify the Christian, making us righteous in Christ Jesus, not by Abraham's faith but by the Faith of Jesus Christ. Galatians 3:22-26 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Lets not make Abraham more that God made him. Lets make Christ much more and the only Faith by which we are saved unto justification and righteousness. 1 Corinthians 1:28-31 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

It is God's works in us by the Faith that is come, that being the Faith of Jesus Christ unto salvation by Grace through Christ's Faith.

In Christ: Phillip

Brother Phillip wrote:

Our Faith by Jesus Christ makes us the same as Abraham's faith to believe God for the Promise, which was the Seed, and us to believe Jesus Christ and His Faith that would save the Gentiles, when it came, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Do you believe that when God spoke to Abraham, that the words He spoke, came from Christ then?

For we know that before Abraham was, Christ was the "I AM."

In Christ
Jeff

So far we see that there are those whose father is Satan, and those whose Father is God. We see that the "words" we listen to determine who our father or Father is. Now look to the beginning of Chapter 8...

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard them not].

Here we learn of a distinction brought about by those who lived according to the letter...

Listen to Paul's teaching...

2 Corinthians 3:

7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

Paul refers to the Law of Moses as the ministry of death, and the ministry of condemnation.

Now look again to how the scribes and pharisees seek to condemn Jesus by the Law of Moses...

Do you see the outworking of the covenant made on Mount Sinai in those who sought only to fulfill the letter of the law?

In Christ
Jeff

The ministry of condemnation has always had the same results...

Rom. 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Now look to John 8

6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

John 8:7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”

Again...

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Do you see what Jesus is teaching at this moment?

In Christ
Jeff

Jeff wrote,

Quote: Do you believe that when God spoke to Abraham, that the words He spoke, came from Christ then?

No.

Romans 3:27-31 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

They by works of Faith, Those in Christ the new gospel of Paul revealed, through faith that is in Jesus Christ not Abraham.

Romans 16:25-27 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

In Christ: Phillip

Jeff wrote,

Quote: "For we know that before Abraham was, Christ was the "I AM

Of Course Jesus had not been born of a woman and gone to the Cross and ascended to the Father and returned in the Spirit of the Born Again, and through His faith receive regeneration unto salvation and forgiveness of sin.

1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Abraham's wisdom was not of Christ, not righteous because of the Christ in him, not sanctified by Jesus Christ or redeemed in Christ Jesus YET. All of Israel except those that were in hell, were put in the bosom of Abraham, where Christ went and preached to those in prison. Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

In Christ: Phillip