Was Jesus perfect?

I'll answer that with a verse. "He was just as much God as though he were not man, and just as much man as though he were not God." I don't know where that verse is found right off the top of my head. I very rarely look up verses unless studying to preach or teach. Also the bible says that he was "touched by the FEELINGS of our INFIRMITIES", so to me that's saying he felt the same pain that we felt. If you cut him he bled. If you punched him he bruised.

Yes, I can picture Joseph wrestling in the floor with his son. And Mary picking him up and dusting him off and kissing his scrapes on his knees. He was a "man of sorrows and aquainted with grief". I'll bet he even got deprressed at times. He felt everything we feel.

I believe there are two Greek words for 'perfect', and one of them means [i]complete[/i]. Does anyone know about the other word? Or how often either of them appear in the New Testament?

tjservant, what did you mean by 'perfect', please?

Certainly, I believe Jesus never sinned.

I don't think it's a sin to trip when you're a kid, or to experience the same learning curve (re the chiselling) as any other apprentice.

Regarding whether He had to study or not, I expect He did go through the same as other boys of His age, but, Psalm 22 says this, vv 9 and 10

9 But You [are] He who took Me out of the womb;
You made Me trust [while] on My mother's breasts.

10 I was cast upon You from birth.
From My mother's womb You [have been] My God.

I believe those verses contain a very important statement.

"He was just as much God as though he were not man, and just as much man as though he were not God."

Jesus didnt just waddle out to the woodshop when he was three and build a crib for himself. He had to be taught. Anyone who has ever done woodworking or carpentry knows that it is a skill that must be learned... and that mistakes are very crucial to learning. I'm sure when Jesus was learning the profession there was a pile of scrap wood out back of the shop from mistakes he made in the learning process.

Could Jesus have built a perfect crib for himself as a three year old? Definately... but the point of him coming and living among us (other than being the final sacrifice for our sins) was to identify with us, and understand our struggles. Not to come down here and do miraculous things all of his life, and "wow" everyone with his perfection. Jesus first recorded miracle (unless you're a Catholic) wasnt until he was over 30 years old, at a wedding in Canaan.

He did not sin. But I dont believe scripture teaches that he was perfect, in that he never made mistakes in skill and growing. Of course, he was perfect in wisdom and will.

Krispy

I have heard a few people mention things along the line of "Jesus never made mistakes".

In thinking of Jesus growing up from childhood, His body will have needed the same amount of food, exercise, practice and development of [i]skill[/i] that any other child's needs. But, I suspect He did get there faster.

And, I believe that Joseph died when He was quite young, so, presumably He became responsible for feeding the family - perhaps no younger than other children who lived in His era, but, nevertheless, He had that experience of having no choice in how He spent His time, which constrains many of us. From us, perhaps it draws resentment, but from Him - I would expect it to have drawn only goodness, love and compassion for others in the same situation.

brother TJ,
I don't know if this will help you or not, but I recently studied this topic in my Bible school and here are my review notes (in preparation for my exam) on the Humanity Christ, the Hypostatic Union of Christ, the Kenosis of Christ, and the Impeccability of Christ.
Note, these are just [i]my[/i] notes and a very brief summary of each aspect of Christ's attributes being discussed here. This is a broad topic and I know there are excellent Bible scholars here on SI who are much better equipped to explain all this than I am. But I thought the Scripture references might prove helpful in researching this.
:-)
----
[b]The Humanity of Christ[/b]

Evidence for total humanity:
1.\tChrist experienced normal human development- Luke 2:40, 52 (growth in wisdom and statute)
2.\tAs a child Christ was in subjection to His Parents- Luke 2:51
3.\tChrist experienced human emotions- John 11:33 (deeply moved, emotional disturbance); John 11:35 (Weeping); Matthew 9:36 (Pity); Luke 22:44 (Agony)
4.\tHuman Limitations- John 19:28 (thirst); Matthew 4:2; Mark 11:12 (hunger); Luke 8:23; John 4:6 (fatigue); Matthew 24:36 (knows not hour of return)
5.\tHuman Soul and Spirit- Matthew 26:38; John 12:27 (Soul); Mark 8:12; Luke 23:46; John 11:33 (Spirit)
These evidences were manifested in the realm of His Humanity, not the realm of His deity.

[b]The Hypostatic Union of Christ[/b]

The term “hypostasis” refers to the true essence of something.
1.\tJesus Christ is a theanthropic person, a God-Man; He has a complete divine nature and a complete human nature united as one. This union has been called a “Hypostatic Union”, for it is the true essence of the incarnated Christ.
a.\tIsa. 9:6-7 – Mighty God (deity), ‘is born’ (humanity).
b.\tDaniel 7:13- Son of Man (humanity); coming in the clouds (deity)
c.\tJohn 1:1, 14- Word (deity) was made flesh (humanity)
d.\tRomans 1:3-4- Descendent of David (humanity); God’s Son (deity).
e.\tGalatians 4:4-5- God’s Son (deity); made of woman (humanity).
2.\tA nature is a unique combination of attributes that determines the kind of a thing or being. The union of a human nature and a divine nature in the incarnated Christ makes Him God-Man kind of being. He thereby is totally unique.
3.\tThe two natures were united without loss of identity. There was no mixture of the two natures. Christ’s divine nature always remained divine. Christ’s human nature always remained human. Neither nature lost any of it’s attributes. Christ would sometimes act in the realm of his humanity (tiredness) and also in the realm of his divinity (omnipotence).
4.\tThe importance:
a.\tChrist was the Perfect Revealer of God to man. Only deity can reveal deity, and only humanity can reveal it in a way humans can grasp it. John 1:18 (only the Son has seen God); John 14:7-9(if you’ve seen the Son you’ve seen the Father); Colossians 1:15 (the image of God); Hebrews 1:3 (express image of God).
b.\tThe Redeemer had to be theanthropic. Human to die, and to die as man’s substitute. Deity to die for all men and that his death might have infinite value. I Timothy 2:5-6 (ransom for all); Hebrews 2:14-17 (took on flesh to die for men).

[b]The Kenosis of Christ[/b]

Kenosis means to empty. When Christ became incarnated He emptied Himself of something.
1.\tWrong view- Christ emptied Himself of all or some of His deity. This is wrong because in Christ is all the fullness of the Godhead (Col. 2:9), and because to lose one attribute of the divine nature would abolish it, thus this would destroy the deity of Christ.
2.\tCorrect view- Christ emptied Himself of the outward form of His deity (Phil. 2:6-7). This involved two things:
a.\tChrist veiled His glory, and displayed it only once at the mount of Transfiguration. Matt. 17:1-4; John 1:14 (we beheld His glory); Isaiah 53:2 (His outward form had no comeliness).

[b]The Impeccability of Christ[/b]

Impeccability means the inability to sin. Christ claimed He never sinned (John 8:46)
[b]Problem:[/b]
Adam was a sinless being before the Fall, but was susceptible to sinning. Why wasn’t Christ, a sinless and perfect being susceptible to sinning?
[b]Solution:[/b]
Christ had a divine nature, something Adam didn’t have. Because deity is more powerful than humanity, Christ’s divine nature overruled any susceptibility to sin.
[b]Problem:[/b]
If Christ’s divine nature overruled His human nature was not His human nature violated and Christ ceased to be human?
[b]Solution:[/b]
Since Adam had a complete sin nature before the fall then sin is not an essential attribute of the human nature. Thus if a divine nature prevents a human nature from sinning it isn’t violating the human nature. The reverse however would not be the same. One of the attributes of the divine nature is holiness, thus if the human nature were to overrule the divine nature and cause Christ to sin than Christ would cease to be divine.
[b]Problem:[/b]
If Christ was not able to sin, then are not the Scriptures wrong to say that Christ was tempted by Satan (Mk. 1:13) and that Christ was tempted in all things as we are (Hebrews 4:15)?
[b]Solution:[/b]
Temptation is the invitation to sin, not the capability to sin. Christ’s impeccability, an attribute of His divine nature, overruled his ability to accept the temptation to sin. Christ did not have a sin nature inside Him. (Hebrews 4:15). Mark 1:12-13 was God’s way of demonstrating Christ’s impeccability (inability to sin).
Proof of Christ’s Impeccability:
1.\tHis immutability requires it. One of His attributes is holiness which makes it impossible for God to sin. Since Christ was unable to sin before His incarnation, He was also unable to sin after His incarnation.
2.\tHis omnipotence requires it. Christ's omnipotence could keep Him from sinning.
3.\tHis sovereignty requires it. If Christ had been capable of sinning than it would have made God’s future plan of redemption uncertain and based on Christ sinning or not sinning.

Roniya wrote:
brother TJ,
I don't know if this will help you or not, but I recently studied this topic in my Bible school and here are my review notes (in preparation for my exam) on the Humanity Christ, the Hypostatic Union of Christ, the Kenosis of Christ, and the Impeccability of Christ.

Jeannette

While personally holding fast to the knowledge that Jesus was and is God, I love the touches of humanity we see in the Gospels.

One nice one is the incident in the Temple when He was 12. To me that's just how a typical 12 year old might act when engrossed in whatever he was doing. He didn't mean to cause Mary and Joseph any worry, but it just didn't [i]occur[/i] to Him that they might not know where He was. He was plainly astonished that they should have been worried at all...

I'm also amused at the very understated way the Bible describes Mary's words when they find Jesus. The reality would surely be that she restrained herself in the presence of the priests, but when she got Him outside... Just like any other mother worried sick about her child. She would have been furious with him for turning up safe and sound, when they were imagining all sorts of terrible things might have happened!

Or was she too much in awe of His answer? Mmm

Jesus was really tempted

1. Christ could have sinned.

For a temptation to be real, the possibly to sin must exist. When Christ was tempted, He could Have sinned. If it was impossible for Christ to sin, the temptation would have been meaningless.

How could Christ be really tempted if it was impossible for Him to choose?

Mark 1:13; "And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him."

2. Christ's "flesh" was the same as ours.

If Christ's "flesh" was different from ours He could not be our high priest.

Heb 2:14-18; "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily He took not on him the nature of angels; but He took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to succour them that are tempted."

Heb 4:14-16; "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."

Romans 8:3; "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:."

3. When we are tempted we do NOT have to sin.

1 Cor 10:13; "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

2 Peter 2:9; "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:"

4. It is not sin to be tempted.

Christ was tempted on every point, yet He did not sin

5. You do not need "a sin nature" to be tempted.

When Eve was tempted in the garden she did not have "a sin nature"

We are tempted through our natural appetites, not through a sinful nature. Our appetites are not sinful in themselves, for they have been given to us by God; but unless they are controlled by the Holy Spirit, they will become sinful. Just as a branch, even while grafted into a true vine needs the constant care of a gardener, so must we be cared for, guarded, guided by the Holy Spirit. We must deny any desire or craving for something not consistent with the Vine in which we abide.

To be tempted, man does not need to have a sinful nature; in fact, he is not tempted through a sinful nature, for that is not the object of the devil's attack. Man is tempted through his natural desires. These are not wrong in themselves, for they are God-given, and so are for man's good. But through wrong use, man's desires may become defiled, especially if the wrong use is habitual. Yet if properly controlled, these desires may remain pure and good.

The devil therefore seeks entrance through one or all of these three natural, fundamental desires -- to enjoy things, to get things, and to do things. Dr. Kyle's definition of temptation is rather difficult to improve upon: "Temptation is the incitement of our natural desires to go beyond the bounds set by God." We are tempted by Satan along the lines of our human desires. The devil does not tempt a sinful nature; there is no point in tempting evil with evil. In our case, human nature is a fallen nature, but not in the experience of Adam and Eve, nor of Christ (for they had no fallen nature). They did have a human nature which was temptable, for it had these three fundamental, natural desires which could respond to temptation. While man is temptable through these desires and can respond to the enticements or the allurements of the devil or the world, yet by the promise of Hebrews 2:18, "He is able to succor them that are tempted." Praise God for this truth!

Man is tempted "when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed." Usually we attach a bad meaning to the word lust, though strictly speaking, it means nothing more than a strong desire. The meaning of the Greek word lust is to "set the heart upon, to long for" (rightfully or otherwise). This is where the battle is joined. It is through his desires that man is enticed. Only when lust has conceived does it bring forth. Until the will marries the wrong desire, there is no conception. Unless the will yields to the enticement, there is no sin. Only when the will yields to the desire is there a conception and sin; the child of lust is born.

James 1:12; "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

Santana wrote:
Since were on this topic, I really want to know what you think of his sense of humour?? Do you think he cracked jokes with the disciples and made them laugh??

Dorothy L Sayers (better known for her crime writing) also wrote a series of plays for radio on the life of Christ (Man Born to be King). She imagined Jesus telling the story of the dishonest steward fiddling the books, much to Matthew's amusement, (he probably had done plenty of the same during his time as a tax collector). In the parable the master "commended" the dishonest man: Miss Sayers has him saying "Fellow, you're a thorough scoundrel! [b]...But I do admire your thoroughness!"[/b]

What a punchline!

Jeannette

jordanamo wrote:
Linn- "Jordan, bro, this is not a verse from the Bible.... sorry"-- You mistook me-- Jason said that, not me.

Jordan

This really was bad form. It's just not like me to quote scriptures that are not found in the bible. It must of been some kind of childhood way of remebering his humanity and deity. I don't know. CRAZY!!! :-? I found out, though, that some verses we learn as a child have to be relearned because after years it seems like words get forgotten.

Are these notes copyright? I don't want to publish them or anything, but maybe to share with a few friends.