Acquire the fire. Acquire WHAT fire?

Saints,

This post may reveal my age :-o

Last weekend, some youth from our church went to see the popular "Acquire the Fire" down in San Antonio. I don't really know anything about ATF, other than it's some sort of travelling rally geared to "fire up" youth group kids. One of the girls (my niece) came back seemingly impacted and even "signed up" to go on a remote missionary trip come summer. Of course, knowing me, I am instantly wary of anything that purposes to instill a kind of "fire" in people that are plainly destitute of holiness and self-denial. Many of the kids are now talking about missions and other radical stuff, but it remains to be seen what the long term results will be. I sat in youth group yesterday and just listened. There was a lot of talk about signs and wonders, testimonies of miracles, awesome preaching, awesome worship bands, etc. The stuff you always seem to hear about at these types of functions.

Brethren, I have become so disillusioned by fireshows and rallies and spectacular feats of power-evangelism that, in the long run, only seem to stir the outward, soulish morale without instilling a supernatural transformation inwardly. I believe this inward transformation will become apparent to everyone when a kid is truly touched by God and genuinely repents.

How is it possible for a group like this to have missionary "sign-up sheets" outside the stadium for young kids to travel to Africa! Oh, woe unto us if a dazzling lightshow brought a child to make this decision.

I understand I am being skeptical. I really don't know anything about Ron Luce and ATF other than what I've heard from others. Am I being too unreasonable here? Are any of you familiar with this organization?

Brother Paul

Last year the youth minister at my church took seven kids to an ATF event. The three unsaved went forward and “got saved”. They no longer attend our church…or any other.

I have no other information on ATF.

Emotionalism is very dangerous and hard for youth to discern.

God bless

TJ

http://web.mac.com/nisaac2001/iWeb/YOF/Acquire%20The%20Fire_files/DSCF9928.jpg

Here is an image of a band named "Skillet" that perfoms at these types of rallies. I look at this, and I want to weep. How did Satan ever infiltrate? If this is a sampling of the "fire" that is yet to be "acquired"...God help us.

Oh, what has happened to the glorious hymns of Wesley and Watts? Is this the fruit that provokes one to a life of holiness and humility?

Never mind your age, I'm old too, I'm 44.

I don't know about this group, I don't know if they have a website, so I'm just going by what you have said in your post.

First, what and whose 'fire' are the youth supposed to be acquiring?

If they are not being specific, and just using the correct cliche to stir up feelings and emotions, then they need to be tested in the light of God's word.

Most western children are too spineless to go on a mission trip to another western nation, let alone Africa.

And will the parents be going too? If not, why not?

Who would let their children just go to a foreign nation with someone they do not know that well, or for very long, just as long as that person happens to mention Jesus?

I wouldn't let my children go.

Once the zeal of the rally has gone, and it will go, what is left?

Unfortunately, I'm a sceptic too, as if you can't tell!

So, maybe someone less biased than myself can comment.

But for me, I wouldn't waste my time with them.

God bless.

http://web.mac.com/nisaac2001/iWeb/YOF/Acquire%20The%20Fire_files/DSCF0038.jpg

Some girls meeting with a humble "worship" band after the rally.

I went to Aquire the Fire when I was a junior in high school. I'm also going to have to jump on the skeptical boat. I don't remember the Lord doing anything in my heart, and I saw no change in anyone from my youth group that attended. The whole thing was very media oriented, videos of some evil plot and its distruction. I really didn't understand it. I don't remember any of the speakers, only the bands. When it was time to get right with Jesus they played "This is the Air I Breathe" for about 30 mins. That basically ruined that song for me. That's about all I remember though...I do remember being discuraged the following week because I had expected for the Lord to set my heart ablase during the gathering. But, I felt just as dead as before. Praise God He changed me since then and set a standard in my heart.

I'm sure the Lord does work in the hearts of some teens through ATF. He's a huge God and can use anything. And I know there has been some genuine decisions for Christ for His Glory. So praise God. We just have to pray that the Spirit of the Lord would fall on those kids during ATF and they see how Holy God is, how He deserves glory, how sinful they really are, and how much they need Christ. No because of the music, not because of the skits, dramas, lights, media, or speakers. But because of the Lord and the Holy Spirit moving in and around them.

Unreasonable--NO
Wise--YES.

We must exercise caution and give sound advice where children/teens are concerned. Many of these kind of rallies are nothing more than emotional boosters that prey on the unsuspecting. I have seen no real change in others who have gone to events like this one. Prayer and suplication are certainly in order for protection.

Ok guys, I am 20, I have not personally been to ATF, but I have about thirty friends who have been.

I questioned them about it to see if it was worth going to or not, (because I wanted to go myself) and without a doubt, they would tell me that God broke in upon them and seriously touched them. They would say that if it were not for ATF, they might no be serving God right now.

[b][color=CC0000]Ok, to the person who trashed Skillet I have some questions for you:

1.Have you ever been to a Skillet concert?

2.Have you ever read the words to songs written by Skillet?

3. Have you ever personally met the band members and spoken to them?[/color][/b]

[b]Well I have, and you are completely out of place in what you said. If it had been almost any other band, I might have been less annoyed by the ignorance.

Skillet is one band, that I have spent time pouring over their lyrics because they contain more scripture than many preachers sermons do.

They are not self seeking, self centered, or greedy like the contemporary worship circle is. They are a hundred percent genuine in their walk before the Lord.

Just because you don't understand our culture, does not give you the right to say it is wrong.[/b]

Just because a band has verses in their songs does not mean they are walking in Him. There are a lot of religouse/hypocrites using God's word.

You do not have to meet a group to know if they are of the Lord or not. You can listen and look at the prosperity preachers and know what they are all about. Just like you can look at the many christian rock groups and know if it is all about getting glory for God or for THEM. God gives us discernment that we may judge righteosly, to protect us from wolves, liars, thiefs, from falling in delusion, but many christians are only partaking in milk that they cannot discern. Many are still inlove with the world that they fall easily to delusion.

The cool videos, posters, rock clothes, luscious lifestyle just SCREAMS its ALL about ME and the love of the world. The Word tells us not to love the world, to dress modest, and meek. Many rock groups are encouraging the youth to do totally the opposite.

I've been to my share of christian rock concerts. Friends took me to them right after I got saved. 2 was enough for me! I was young in the Lord then, but even as a new christian, I knew that this was not from God, but the world. Too much like the world and SELF was very strong! After the Delirouse concert, I wanted to puke! After that concert, I made up my mind that I will never support such groups that uses the name of Jesus for their own glory and fame, cashing in on God's word.

Alot of christian rock bands use Jesus name for THEIR FAME. It is very obviouse.

Just because you don't understand our culture, does not give you the right to say it is wrong.

Brother if you are in the Family of God culture should not dtermine our efforts.

How can you speak to an elder in such a manner? Your response is from emotion and arrogance, and is very telling that God has put His finger upon something in your heart.

Do you know what gives Bro. Paul the right to say what he has? the fact that he has probably wept over the pictures, bands etc before he even spoke a word. I would not be surpirsed that he has wept and cried out to God for you as well, thus he has not answered your response yet.

I do not care what the current "chrsitian culture" offers as the majority of it tepid to say the least, and lacking in any kind of doctrinal truth, or Scriptural conversion, but ratheer is set up to appeal to the flesh and then suddenly switch to the Spirit.

I am reminded of what Paul Washer said, "some of the things you love God hates!"

One last thing, I used to listen to Skillet, and even knew the man that makes John's guitars. Now please do not take this as some sort of spiritual ego trip, but then I grew up, and began to see things differently. They are talented musicians for sure, but that does not mean anything, God does not need entertainers.

Those guys look pretty cool -I'd hang out with them!

Let me get one thing straight, if they love Jesus it doesn't matter if they have a mohawk or piercings.

I bet Jesus would prefer to go to a punk rock show than some of our churches.

It's sad to hear about the kids in one of the posts earlier, but you know what, we can judge a whole event or organization by a few kids but that would be wrong.

We all love Leonard Ravenhill and Keith Green... well do you know where the headquarters of ATF is located? On Keith Green's ranch (the old LDM campus) in Texas! A lot of the senior members of the ministry were raised up through Last Days and other ministries we all love!

They use a different 'means' to reach out to youth, but their theology is sound! There's always going to be problems in any ministry, I bet even David Wilkerson has a few rotten eggs, but don't judge this book by it's cover.

They're getting kids into missions! That's awesome, that was Keith Green's final desire -it's good to see that someone is still listening 25 years later.

Wow, me and Ben agreeing on something... it must be the end times!

Hi Ben,

I have a 20 year old that was in my youth group for many years and tells me he is not going to ATF [i]because[/i] Skillet is going to be there. His concern is after reading about some of their plans to return to bars (this is second hand from him) to play that that is a problem for him.

Personally I have not come to a full opinion as of yet. My great concern is not the lyrics as important that that is. My concern is what 'spirit' the music is of.

Just because you don't understand our culture, does not give you the right to say it is wrong.

As a youth pastor of several years and father of 5 teen aged children this stament is very confusing to me. Just exactly what is 'our culture'? As Christians we are to emulate the person of Jesus Christ to the best of our ability. Is there some sort of youth sub culture going on that only they can 'understand'. I grew up in the sex/drugs/and rock and roll of the 1980's. I have seen the punk bands the tatoos, piercings, mohawks and concert shirts. I grew up in an age when guys wore shirts with 666 plastered on the front and devil worship as part and portion of the concerts. Bands like Iron Maiden and Judas Priest. So it is not that I and many here may not be familiar with the 'culture'. But when I went to church I absolutely did not expect Christianity to model itself after Maiden and Priest. If it did, as a teen or youth, I had been utterly shocked and disappointed.

Hi Ben! I had to edit this comment a bit; I felt the original was perhaps too angry. I love you, dear brother, and I pray this post explains where I'm coming from in a more gentle, charitable manner.

You asked me this question:

Have you ever been to a Skillet concert?

No, and you couldn't pay me to go. I've been in Christian bookstores when their music is being played and I have to leave. Shouldn't that be enough? Their music is ugly and worldly and offensive to my ears. It does not provoke me to a deeper surrender and humilty in God; it, in fact, reminds me of my flesh-driven unregenerate life! I am upset because this "worship music" has usurped our heritage's glorious hymns. Our kids have never been exposed to the ineffable purity of God's presence through the singing of hymns - they put on their headphones and just blare this music as loud as it can go. I'v3e seen it time and time again. They bring their iPods to youth group, wearing daemonic-looking shirts and just zone out or try to mosh out. If you try to reach these kids with Wesley and Watts, they've already built up an automatic apathy for anything "old sounding", because the old hymns do not instantly boost their flesh. There's nothing there for them to hang on to. It's almost as if th music spiritually lobotomizes them. You can't have a jumping, hollering party singing, "Arise, My Soul Arise" or "Is Thy Heart Right With God?", but you can jump and shout and whistle to Skillet and Newsboys. Butr what if you take the music away? Will they still jump and shout and whistle if someone were up on stage just [i]quoting[/i] Skillet lyrics? Why do we need the spikey hair and black mascara and evil-looking smirks and explosions and smoke machines and flourescent lights to "fire" the kids up? Can't the lyrics of the worship alone achieve this?

Just because you don't understand our culture, does not give you the right to say it is wrong.

Dear brother, I understand your [i]culture[/i] just fine - and I tell you it has no place in God's church. I understand that modern culture, and the [i]spirit[/i] it espouses is ungodly superficial, and at utter enmity with God's holiness. Your generation will reap what it sows, Ben. Your abhorrence of all that is pure and lovely and humble diffuses through modern youth groups like a noxious stench. I see first-hand the covetous cliques in youth fellowships, the strutting, the vast identity crisis of not knowing who they are in Christ. The totally dependancy on music and beats to get into God's supposed presence. And I see the spirit of this culture usurping the Holy Spirit's rightful role of mentorship: instead of God, the [i]culture[/i] influences the way kids dress, their mannerisms, etc. And I see this spirit typified in bands like Skillet.

You are right that God put a finger on my heart, I was a little angry at what I saw written.

But I do want to say that simply because rock may have been someones culture when they were unsaved, does not make it now sinful for everyone else.

The Christian rock scene is not like the worldly rock scene. Albeit that there are some bands who are far too questionable for my walk with the Lord. So what do I do? I don't listen to those bands, but to the ones who do glorify God, like Skillet, I investigate and seek God about them. Skillet has been one of the few burning and shining lamps in the Christian rock scene. Keeping their lyrics holy before God. They pray before they play. They witness many times, maybe not every show, but almost.

What you don't seem to realize is that there are some people out their who will not listen to any of us, but they will listen to Skillet. And God uses that.

Now do I say that we are supposed to try to look, smell, taste, think, dress like the world? No, I don't, but even Paul says " I have become all things to all men, that I might win a few." Why did he do that? I think it's obvious.

Interesting that while you slam someone for being critical of your favorite band... you throw a blanket of critisism over an entire genre of music and musicians. If we can dispense with the hypocracy around here, perhaps we might get something accomplished for the kingdom.

You're right. (see, I told you that I admit it when I'm wrong)

Ben will, I'm sure, take exception to this... but I've been around enough to know that the vast majority of church youth groups spend more time and energy on entertainment than they do serious Bible study and prayer. I know there are exceptions, but not many. Thats a fact. Ben can throw a hissy and tell me I'm wrong... but I'm not wrong.

Actually, I agree, I think for the most part that the youth groups in America are pathetic babysitting devices. They are so caught up in the world it's ridiculous, they try to fit God in somewhere, but if the numbers drop, then they become even more user friendly. If they would all shut up and go pray for the same time that they have their Youth group, we would probably see revival come from it.

ATF is not evil. Dont misunderstand me. But the concept is flawed. It is a substitute for learning, studying, memorizing, obey and living out the Word of God. Show me a teenager who spends 1 hour a day (or more) in serious study of the Word and in prayer... and I'll show you a teenager who is too busy for Jesus to even attend ATF.

Well, this quotes well, but it is not true. I have a couple of close friends, and we all are committed to the Lord, spending some days as much as five or eight hours in prayer and serious study, now generally its about one and a half to two hours, but there are those awesome days! And we are not too busy to go see a band play, or attend a concert now and then, now do we go every weekend and spend our money there? No, we don't, (we don't have enough money...lol)

Ben, you can argue with me on this all you want. But I'm right about this. And if you belong to a "culture" that sets itself at odds with precious saints who have been walking with God for quite awhile (such as PaulWest), then you're in the wrong "culture", my friend. You should be chasing after people like him, trying to soak up as much wisdom as you can... not being in rebellion toward them.

You see Krispy, I agree with you, if any band is taking the place of prayer and study, cast it away from you, I don't care how good they are.

But I disagree with your last statement about the being at odds with the older culture.

If we are in line with scripture, and they are slamming us, it is them who need correction and not us. Now I am not making a blanket statement that the whole Christian rock scene is good. There are a number of bands that I don't support at all, why? They are not following God, they look like the world, act like the world, and dress like the world, and they never use that to reach out to the world. And so I don't support them.

Studying missions there's one theme we talk about a lot -how do we allow a people group to become Christian but still be that people group.

Often we go out and try to win people to Christ by making them patriotic Americans -even if they're indiginous Kenyans or Vietnamese. We need to be able to see what is good about their culture and allow that to continue while bringing them to the saving faith of Jesus.

Robert de Nobili and Mateo Ricci were successful in China because they wore chinese clothing, spoke fluent chinese, could wax eloquent in Chinese with the best poets and philosophers of the time in China... and by bringing them Jesus through 'means' that the Chinese could understand. Their ministry flourished!

We have tribes of youth who would accept Jesus if we didn't force them to listen to our music and join our 'american church' culture. Let's just be honest here, everything we think of as part of Christianity in the USA isn't always part of Christianity to people in other regions of the world.

They need Jesus, they don't need our churches... I'm just glad someone is going to them as a cross-cultural missionary to reach them with the Gospel, because even though it's only a small generational gap, there are major cultural issues that you might not even be aware of.

another thing to think about is, if you cant let go of your music/culturestyle...how can you let go of everything else we need to let go to follow Christ? sometimes we fight so hard to keep something small of the world... we even try and blend it and mix it whit Jesus..but it wont last the final fire...