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Sick of life and losing hope

J
John173 Feb 28, 2007

I feel completely incapable of coping with life today. I won't take my own life, but I want to. I just want the pain to stop! The pain of my own disgusting inadequacies. The pain of my flesh chosing to trample the cross and spit in Jesus face. How can He still love me? Yet He does. He has given grace upon grace upon grace. Even at the worst times of my rebelion he has performed miracles for me. On one occasion He created fuel out of thin air, just like He created oil and flower for the widow. On another occasion he caused a two way FM radio transmission to travel OVER mountains clear as if I were in the next room. Why has he done this and still left me to be such a pathetic self absorbed wretch?

I am sick of the body of Christ. The people of God make me sick. The bickering that goes on here makes me sick. Lukewarm worship kills a small part of my heart every Sunday. We sing songs like "When the Spirit of the Lord moves in my heart I will dance like David danced" while rooted to the floor as if glued to it. Apparently the Spirit of the Lord isn't moving in their hearts. David whirled around like a fool for God as the ark was brought back to Jerusalem. Rejoice, and again I say rejoice. The word means to jump up and down and spin around with overwhelming joy. This verse mocks me ad mocks us all. When was the last time you saw anyone 'rejoice'?

I am tired of seeking God. I have tried to put Him first my whole adult life and gotten nowhere. I am the chief of sinners. Paul?? Who was he kidding? I feel like God has failed me. For this is the will of God, to sanctify you completely spirit soul and body. I am at the end of my rope. I have asked to be broken and filled. What I am feeling is shattered beyond recognition. I need to do something to find work or somehow find the motivation to MAKE this real estate career work. I lack the motivation. I am sick of living and wantr to die. How does one manage to go apply for a job when this is the state of ones diseased soul?

I posted a prayer request on the broken heart thread with no response. My life is in shambles. I don't connect well with the pastor of my church so I feel incapable of reaching out to him. I DON"T KNOW WHAT TO DO! I am trying to hang on and 'pray through'. I am losing the fight. Wil someone please intercede for me?

I
iansmith Feb 28, 2007

'God has to break a man to make a man' -Ravi Zacharias.

One of the hard things in life is to recognize our trials as the molding that God is doing with his hands upon our lives. When we are broken like the clay, it is his hands that are at work.

Of course it hurts, there's a little pain in every waking day -but that's how we know we're alive, and thank God that he has given us that!

I have been suicidal myself in the past, so I won't belittle anything that you're going through -it's all real, very real. But God is bigger!

Sometimes we try too hard and God just wants us to rest upon Him and His words. God has given thousands of promises in the bible, all of those are yours to claim!

Of course he's not going to change your relationship with your Pastor overnight, but he will work in your life and the lives of others to meet you in your need.

I will pray for you that you can experience the peace and assurance of Christ's love for you. There is no fear in love, there is no condemnation in Jesus. When God sees us fall his first thought isn't to punish us, it's to pick us up.

sermonindex Feb 28, 2007

Dear brother John,

A while ago I posted this article by Madame Jeanne Guyon. Please read it and even go to the whole thread and perhaps you will glean some helpful things there.

Have you ever listened to Keith Daniel? I recommend [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=6556&commentView=itemComments]This sermon, Abide in Me[/url].

I will pray for you, brother.

~~~~
The Blessedness of Winter
By Madame Jeanne Guyon

I see the season of winter as an excellent example of the transforming work of the Lord in a Christian’s life. When winter comes, the vegetable world, it seems to me, reflects the image of the purifying which God does in order to remove imperfections from the life of one of his children.

As cold comes on the wings of a winter storm, the trees gradually begin to lose their leaves. The green is so changed into a funeral brown; soon the leaves fall away and die. Behold the tree’s appearance now! It looks stripped and desolate. Behold the loss of summer’s beautiful garment. What happens as you look upon that poor tree? You see a revelation.

Under all the beautiful leave there had been all sorts of irregularities and defects. The defects had been invisible because of the beautiful leaves. Now those defects are startlingly revealed! The tree is no longer beautiful in it’s surface appearance. But has the tree actually changed? Not at all. Every thing is exactly as it was before. Everything is as it has always been! It is just that the leaves are no longer there to hide what is real. The beauty of the outward life of the leaves had only hidden what had always been present.

The same is true of you. The same is true of all believers. We can each looks so beautiful…until life disappears! Then, no matter who, the Christian is revealed as full of defects. As the Lord works on you to produce purification, you will appear stripped of all your virtues! But, in the tree, there is life inside; and, as the tree, you are not actually becoming worse, you are simply seeing yourself for what you really are! Know that somewhere deep within the tree of winter there is still the life that produced last spring’s beautiful leaves.

No, the believer’s inmost being has not been deprived of its essential virtue. He has lost no advantages. He has only lost something human, a sense of his own personal goodness, and he has discovered, instead, his utter wretchedness. He has lost the ease of following the Lord. That ease was born more of ignorance of self than anything else.

As with the tree, so with you.

The Christian, now spoiled and naked, appears in his own eyes to be a denuded thing; and those around him see his defects for the first time: defects which were previously veiled, concealed by outward graces.

Sometimes such revelation is so devastating to the pride of a Christian he simply never recovers, and decides to be a Christian on some other level; or gives up following the Lord entirely.

Throughout the long cold winter, the tree certainly appears as the very deadest of all trees in the forest. The tree knows no reality. Here is total destruction, it seems. But the truth lies somewhere else.

That tree is actually undergoing and submitting to a process which preserves its life and strengthens the tree! After all, what does winter do to a tree? It contracts the tree’s exterior. The life deep within is no longer uselessly expended! Its life, rather, is concentrated within the deepest part of the trunk and in the hidden portions of the root. The life is forced deeper and deeper into the inmost part of the tree.

Winter preserves the tree, no matter how dead the tree may appear. Yes, its leaves have fallen away and its true, deformed, state has been exposed; yet the tree has never been more alive than at that time! During the winter, the source and principle of life is more firmly established than at any other season.

In all other seasons, the tree employs the whole force of its life in adorning and beautifying itself. But it does so at the expense of expending its life, taking its very vitality from the roots and the deepest part of the trunk. There must be winter. Winter is necessary for the tree if it is to live, survive and flourish.

Virtue has a way of sinking deep within the Christian, while totally disappearing from the surface, leaving the outward and natural defects in very conspicuous view! If we have eyes to see, then we see that this is beautiful.

Grace operates in your life exactly the same way. God will take away the leaves. Something will cause them to fall. The outward virtue will collapse. He does this that He may strengthen the principle of the virtue. The source of virtue must be built up. Something deep within the soul is still functioning. Somewhere within the spirit the functions that are the highest (in God’s estimation) have never rested. What is going on is exceedingly hidden. It is humble.

What is happing is pure love.

What is going on in the inmost part is absolute abandonment and contempt of self. The inward man is making progress. The soul is venturing forth into the interior. True, it seems that the operations of God are concentrated on the external parts of the believer, and even a moment’s glance reveals that the exterior things are not pleasant to look upon. Yet, in truth, no new defects in the soul have been developed! Only the uncovering of old faults has come about! And, as they are exposed, they are better healed.

If you dare the spiritual pilgrimage, you need to remember in times of calamity, and in times of what appear to be dry spells, and in that time which men will call a spiritual winter: life is there.

If winter comes…
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14139&forum=34]The Winter of the Soul by Madame Guyon[/url]

G
Goldminer Feb 28, 2007

Dear Bro. John,

I am praying for you. I am at work so I can't share any further now, but will later.

Sometimes the threads move so fast on this forum that they are off the start page as soon as they are on. I did not see your prayer request, if I had I would have been praying. I will now, this minute, and throughout the day.

Be encouraged and know that people here care.

Phl 4:8 ¶ Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.

Phl 4:9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

M
moreofHim Feb 28, 2007

John,

Do not lose heart!!!!! Do not give up. Keep pressing on, one step at a time, one day at a time. I have been there too. Just keep going and God WILL be faithful to you. He will bring you out of this pit.

Praying for you, Chanin

R
roaringlamb Feb 28, 2007

Brother John,
Even the weakest saint is accepted by Him because of His blood, nit by works of righteousness that we could somehow muster.

Oh brother if only I was with you and could take you in my arms and hug you as Christ would. Do not lose hope, for hope that is seen is not hope brother,and those things whic we see are not really real, but are temporal.

Please read these wonderful hymns brother as they have of refresshed my soul
[url=http://www.ccel.org/ccel/newton/olneyhymns.h1_7.html]Though Troubles Assail[/url]

I Asked The Lord
I asked the Lord that I might grow
In faith and love and every grace
Might more of His salvation know
And seek more earnestly His face

Twas He who taught me thus to pray
And He I trust has answered prayer
But it has been in such a way
As almost drove me to despair

I hoped that in some favored hour
At once He'd answer my request
And by His love's constraining power
Subdue my sins and give me rest

Instead of this He made me feel
The hidden evils of my heart
And let the angry powers of Hell
Assault my soul in every part

Yea more with His own hand He seemed
Intent to aggravate my woe
Crossed all the fair designs I schemed,
Cast out my feelings, laid me low

Lord why is this, I trembling cried
Wilt Thou pursue thy worm to death?
"Tis in this way" The Lord replied
"I answer prayer for grace and faith"

"These inward trials I employ
From self and pride to set thee free
And break thy schemes of earthly joy
That thou mayest seek thy all in me,
That thou mayest seek thy all in me."
- John Newton

Please e-mail or pm me if you would like.

J
John173 Feb 28, 2007

I love my wife so much it hurts. When I was a young man I would watch my friends treat their girlfriends with contempt. I promised myself that if I ever found a relationship it would not be that way.

When I met my wife, I prayed that night and asked the Lord if she was 'the one'. This is the only time in my life that I know beyond any doubt that I heard a verbal response from Him. He simply said yes. The ensuing months were amazing. I was given so much grace to simply allow our relationship develop at whatever pace it needed. When I first told her of my love for her she responded by saying that she was in love with another guy. I responded by saying that he must really be a great guy for her to love him so much. That's grace.

Over the years we have remained best friends. Over the years my struggles with my faith have caused a slow erosion in hers. When both of us first got saved we were each delivered from smoking. Somewhere around 1993-4 she decided that she had gained too much weight and that smoking would help her lose it. The erosion of our faith was well under way. I am weak and so began smoking as well. I continue to struggle with it to this day, asking God to set me free once again. For whatever reason, He hasn't yet. I've tried repentant prayer and go a day or two but ultimately fail. As for her she hardened her heart on this issue from the beginning.

As I mentioned in my first post on the broken heart thread, I returned to fellowship last June after a one year absence, but she can't trust me or God anymore and so remains at home Sundays and Wednesday evenings. Since returning to fellowship I have been going through this slow and agonizing process of being broken. This has been at my request.

Part of this process has been financial. I have not earned a penny since leaving my trucking job last July. I became a reak estate agent (oops, that typo seems to fit!) because I needed to need God, if that makes any sense. I can't seem to find the right way to prospect (locating clients). I can't seem to discern His voice and direction. I am at a loss. This all lead to the above post. Right now I have at least calmed down a little though I still am clueless about what to do.

The deepest pain I feel is over how my struggles have impacted my wife. I am of the deepest conviction that obedience to God means ones spouse must be our foremost priority. When I told her I thought she would be better off without me I sincerely thought maybe she would be. As I was despairing of life. In that conversation I told her the only thing I truly want is to be in ministry. That I would be willing to give up everything if it meant being useful to Him. She interpreted this to mean I would give her up in order to attain this goal. What I meant was that I would give up my house, car etc. Her interpretation hurt her deeply.

This burning desire remains in spite of my confrontation with the wretched state of my heart. This desire has overshadowed any motivation I can find to earn a living which I don't see as being godly. In this I feel as though I am just too lazy and am using my spiritual hunger as an excuse. This is why I wanted to let her go.

I am flat out of time, but wanted to add some thoughts to my first post. Thank you your prayers and encouragement. Roniya, the Madam Guyon was beautiful. Knowing the purpose of winter doesn't make going through it much easier, but it does give me reason to keep hanging on tenaciously to that thinthread of hope that remains.

God bless you all.

Doug

C
Compton Feb 28, 2007

You are in good company brother,

This burning desire remains in spite of my confrontation with the wretched state of my heart.

And also this....

This desire has overshadowed any motivation I can find to earn a living which I don't see as being godly

Brother I am praying for you to find suitable work. Don't believe that there is 'meaninglessness' in any employment...you love your wife and that gives meaning, and eternal purpose to whatever provision you put your hand to.

I understand the body of Christ has dissapointed you...but this thread shows you are not as alone as you might suspect! Jesse Penn Lewis, in her book War on the Saints, reminds us that the Spirit...the presence of Jesus, is not our own private unique supply, but is one presence given to be shared in the body of Christ. We can not progress in God without communion in Christ's body.

This is not to dampen you at all...but to encourage you to keep sharing your heart with brothers who are needing to benifit from you...and they also share the same Spirit you have. They can even supply you with something you may lack...maybe even some brothers from this website!

Many of us feel or have felt the overwhelming dispair you have so poignantly described and we are compassionate towards you. As Roaringlamb said so well...we wish we could put our arms around you. Jesus knew who you were when he died for you brother. While you were yet a sinner...you were part of that joy set before him! When we, in agony, become more aware of the extent of our overwhelming desperation, we also become more aware of the height, and dept and breadth of his love for us.

Blessings,

MC

C
ccchhhrrriiisss Feb 28, 2007

Brother Doug...

I am praying for you. Please know that you are not alone in your thoughts. Your post reminded me of Keith Green's same thoughts in the book [i]No Compromise[/i]. If you haven't had the chance to read it -- do so! Reading the mental dilemmas that he endured was extremely encouraging!

One of his songs speaks volumes:

[b]Until that Final Day[/b]
by Keith Green

[i]Verse 1[/i]
My flesh is tired of seeking God,
But on my knees I'll stay.
I want to be a pleasing child,
Until that final day.

My mind is full of many thoughts
That clutter and confuse.
But standing firm, I will prevail,
In faith that I'll be used.

[i]Chorus[/i]
Amen! I'm asking once again.
Won't you help me my friend, Lord Jesus.
Holy Lord Spirit, set us free,
From chains we cannot see,
Come release us.

[i]Verse 2[/i]
I wrestle not with flesh and blood,
My fight is with the one,
Who lost the keys of hell and death,
To God's most precious son.

One sleepless night of anguished prayer,
I triumphed over sin.
One battle in the Holy war,
God's promised me to win.

[i]Repeat Chorus[/i]
Amen! I'm asking once again.
Won't you help me my friend, Lord Jesus.
Holy, Lord Spirit, set us free,
From chains we cannot see,
Come release us.

[i]Refrain[/i]
My flesh is tired of seeking God,
But on my knees I'll stay.
I want to be a pleasing child,
Until that final day.


:-)

M
myfirstLove Feb 28, 2007

John, thankyou for sharing your heart with us and allowing us to minister to you.

God is our comfort, He is our healer, He is our refuge in times of trouble. Go, and run to the one that is able to save you from all things. For NOTHING is too big for Him. He can save unto the UTTERMOST.

Remember, He did not leave us as orphans. He is here, among us. Make up your mind to seek Him with your whole heart while it is called TODAY, who knows what tomorrow brings. Look to Him, John. Cryout to Him with your whole heart. It is thru prayer that we obtain grace and mercy for our lives.

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

communion with God (prayer) will set you free from anxiety, fears.

Philippians 4:6-7

6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Remember:
2 Corinthians 10:4-6

4The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.

Romans 12:1-3
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Meditate on His word, prayer and keeping watch will help conform your mind to Christ. This is a spiritual battle and we cannot fight this battle without spiritual weapons. If you are not using your weapons you will not be able to overcome. What are spiritual weapons? prayer, meditation of His word, obedience, faith, the whole armor of God. How do we keep watch? You know the things that hinder you from living the life in God. Get rid of anything that will make you stumble. Do not go to places that you know will weaken you and bring you to deeper temptations that will lead you back to bondage. Do not dwell on things that will fill your heart with wickedness. When you find yourself dwelling on things grievous to God, quickly go and pray. Renew your mind by meditating on His word. God promise us that if we seek Him we will find Him. He is there, but are we coming to Him with our whole heart. The key is to give our whole heart to Him. When God used the prophets of old to encourage Israel, He would always say, if you turn to me with ALL your heart, then I will heal you. In the psalms the psalmist would cry out, with my WHOLE heart I will seek you. A divided heart will not please God. We must come to Him, seeking Him with our whole heart and not just half. A half heart just says I really do not want God's help, still wanting to hold on to some of the world.

Meditating on His word continually will help you to stay in His way.

Josh. 1:8
8 This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate in it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.

Abiding in Him thru prayer and watching will help you overcome diffulculties.

Luke 21:34-36

34And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Mark 14:38
Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.

Will keep prayer for your soul,

Lisa

R
RobertW Feb 28, 2007

I posted a prayer request on the broken heart thread with no response. My life is in shambles. I don't connect well with the pastor of my church so I feel incapable of reaching out to him. I DON"T KNOW WHAT TO DO! I am trying to hang on and 'pray through'. I am losing the fight. Wil someone please intercede for me?

The enemy is using depression to attack many Saints in the Body of Christ right now. You are not alone. I am dealing with depression on the right hand and the left almost everywhere I go.

One thing that is seriously going to have to change in many circles in the Body of Christ is our expression of love one towards another. For so long there has been a "Never let them see you sweat" attitude that the enemy has singled out many and attacked them to the point of despair. Add to that a constant barrage of repentance preaching and a scenerio of despair develops.

Do you remember the passage in II Corinthians 2 when Paul was reinstating a brother back into fellowship? There are some key things in there that we need to take to heart. One was the concern that folk would be 'overcharged.' And added to that that a person could be swallowed up by overmuch sorrow. The issue is godly sorrow, but it is obviously not healthy to stay in a perpetual state of 'godly sorrow'. The enemy will wear you down with it to the point of despair. This IS the 'Devil's device' of the context. that folk would get so in despair at the condition of themselves that they throw in the towel or worse.

What was the solution?

Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him. For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.(V.8)

With one voice they put him out and they were expected with 'one voice' to restore him. You see, God's desire is [i]restoration[/i]. We may be wanting a pound of flesh for failures and sins, but He is looking to restore. This requires repentance. but the repentance is only to the intent of changing the person's mind about what they did. Doth God take pleasure in the misery of the Saints? Can one tear wipe away one sin? Of course not. Only the blood can cleanse. God's grace through the cross allows for the pardon of the sin. Beating ourselves up is of no profit. It does not add one inch to our stature. It only allows the enemy to creep in and create division between us and God.

To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; (v. 10)

If Christ were here He would do what is said here. He would forgive. He would forgive with cheerfulness (Romans 12:8). That is a different attitude than we want to promote often times. As if God with a mean face was angrily forgiving and showing mercy. If He expects us to show mercy with [u]cheerfullness[/u], how much more will He?

Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. (11)

Sometimes we play right into the Devil's plans and designs. Like chess pieces on his board. He can use us at a moments notice to heap dispair on people- people who may already be ready to give up from much sorrow. God desires you to be saved. He is all about your restoration. Stop focusing on just the things that are wrong and allow God's grace to shine through. Don't allow your own expectation of yourself destroy you. Serve God with gladness, and allow Him to love you even when you won't love yourself. He died for you. He is not in a hurry to send you to hell. He is not about destroying anyone for whom Christ died. He desires restoration. Hell is God's last resort- not His preferred option.

God Bless,

-Robert

G
Goldminer Feb 28, 2007

Dear Doug,

The only way for satan to defeat you is for you to quit. I feel you are beating yourself up because of the change you see in your wife. You have to stop that. You can't change what is, however ever you can start with this day forward. You have to press into the kingdom yourself and when your wife sees true change in you it will have an impact on her.

Also you do have to bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ:

[color=9900FF]Isa 26:3 Thou wilt keep [him] in perfect peace, [whose] mind [is] stayed [on thee]: because he trusteth in thee.[/color]

[color=9900FF]1Pe 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.[/color]

[color=9900FF]2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.[/color]

Your difficulty comes from the fact that your are looking at your situation rather than Jesus and His word. You see you wifes situation, the condition of your church and pastor and even folks on this list who didn't respond when you needed it. I apologize for that myself. However when we fix our eyes on Him the entire world and our life in it takes on a different light. We become like what we behold. We must cast our troubles on God, our spouse, job, troubles of every kind and then fix our gaze on Him and He will take care of everything.

Will it then be smooth sailing, most likely not, but our persepective will be different. It will have a touch of heaven. As we focus on Him His bigness puts our hard times in their proper place. We can rest in Him.

Dear Brother don't despair God is able to turn all this around.

I too have been going through the most difficult time I can remember. I think most of the body of christ is because we are about to enter a time of sifting. God wants us to see His faithfulness now because we will really need it in the future.

I will leave you with this. Tell your wife exactly how you feel. Tell her your love for her and how you feel responsiblity for her not going to church now, etc. Then tell her you have determined to follow Jesus with every ounce of your being and do it. Go to church even if she doesn't. Be faithful, sometimes our spouse is waiting to see if we really mean it this time.

If you are not happy with your fellowship you need to talk to your pastor about it, but don't be talking to anyone else. God wants us to build not tear down. If you can't work it out ask God to show you your heart and see if the difficulty is in you. Share with a trusted father in the Lord, maybe someone on this list what the differences are and maybe you can work through them. If not ask God to move you to another fellowship, or if you feel lead to start a home church with folks of like spirit, being careful not to draw them away from the church you are at. There are probably plenty around you that feel like you and need fellowhip.

You need to fix your gaze on the anser, not the problem and immediately you will see a difference.

By the way Jesse Penn-Lewis is a woman and so am I. So I would challenge all you brothers out there to take this precious brother under your wing and help him through this. If we are too busy to care about one of ours we are in trouble. Loves does.

sermonindex Feb 28, 2007


Dear John,

I'm sorry I haven't seen your prayer request in the other thread, but this caught my eye when I came to post praise. I'm real short of time, but I read the opening post, and part of the one about your love for your wife. Amen.

Now, I have something to respond to your opening post from my own experience, which I hope will really help you rest in the love of God and His hope for your future. And in the words at the end of Eph 3 about being strengthened in the inner man. What is actually happening.... that you feel this:

What I am feeling is shattered beyond recognition.
is a direct result of all the crying you did the other day. Actually, you ARE HEALING, and this awareness of being fractured, is part of God's revelation to you of how you WERE. Trust me. This is, technically, in the past. You are going to be strengthened beyond measure what you have known before, and will begin to have a sense of your own 'being' which has been dissispated over the years through sin. FEAR NOT. God is right with you, I promise. You may not be able to 'feel' Him close, but don't for a second doubt that He IS.

Just keep worshipping in the Spirit, ignoring how you feel, and he will bring you through. Sing, speak in tongues, praise Him for simply being YOUR GOD. Amen.

I am trusting that when you wake up tomorrow, a few hours after my tomorrow begins, you will have a sense of newness within, which really is NEW.

J
John173 Mar 1, 2007

Dear, dear brethren,

I am the wife of Doug (John 173). When I came home from work tonight I found the computer set up and a note from Doug encouraging me to read this entire thread, and add my thoughts if I felt so led.

What an incredible site this is! I cannot tell you how much your generosity has blessed me. These posts take much time and focus to compose, and I don’t take it lightly that each of you has invested that time in reaching out to my husband in a particularly desperate time in his life. Your collective wisdom, your intuition, your words of encouragement, the scripture references, songs, hymns and sharing of relevant works of great Christian authors leaves me feeling stunned and over-awed.

Doug has been very fair in his presentation of my feelings, my fears, and my reactions to his current struggles. While I love him fiercely, and am delighted to see him re-establish himself in his personal relationship with God, I am unable to reconcile myself to his latest declaration that he feels the Lord has impressed him to set aside the efforts required to become a successful real estate agent (or to pursue any other type of gainful employment) and to focus instead on prayer, reading the Bible and writing.

I am working as a temp – my job provides no medical or retirement benefits, nor any real security. Our future financial stability is definitely at risk. The job could end tomorrow. Understandably, I’m mightily concerned. It’s been nine months since he’s brought home a paycheck. We are only staying afloat because we have savings that we have been drawing from, along with a monetary gift from his family. But to what end? To drain it completely? To become destitute? To lose our home? Have his vehicle repossessed? I have been his biggest cheerleader for the last twenty years; nevertheless this is taking things one step too far for me.

Do I want him to grow stronger and become more firmly rooted in his faith? Absolutely. Am I prepared to see all that we’ve worked so hard for over the years to be lost in the process? No. If he insists on this path, I can’t stand by and watch.

[color=0000FF]“The deepest pain I feel is over how my struggles have impacted my wife. I am of the deepest conviction that obedience to God means ones spouse must be our foremost priority. When I told her I thought she would be better off without me I sincerely thought maybe she would be. As I was despairing of life. In that conversation I told her the only thing I truly want is to be in ministry. That I would be willing to give up everything if it meant being useful to Him. She interpreted this to mean I would give her up in order to attain this goal. What I meant was that I would give up my house, car etc. Her interpretation hurt her deeply.”[/color]

According to biblical teaching, our priorities should be God first, our spouse and children second, our jobs third. That is certainly in keeping with Doug’s priorities, but the sheer cliff between the second and third priorities is breathtaking. It is his responsibility to provide for hearth and home. I’m truly afraid to succumb to his request. I feel I can only support him emotionally if I see him making an effort to succeed in his newly chosen career path, or to choose another with a more realistic earning capacity.

I’ve seen his pattern too many times to not recognize the road signs along the way.

After a recent betrayal – investing in a very costly program without so much as discussing it with me until it was too late to back out, or better yet – discussing it with me prior to committing himself – he vowed that he would, in the future, keep me informed of both his triumphs and his struggles in ALL areas of his life, whether they be physical, spiritual, or business/real estate related. He stayed true to that vow when he recently shared the above quote with me. It frightened me, and I didn’t realize what his goal was: Full disclosure, as promised. Instead, I heard him saying that he wanted out of the marriage – that I was a deterrent to his success. What folly to think he could survive without even my paltry income! Does God’s promise to rest in Him and He will provide stretch so far? Do we not have an obligation to live IN the world (with all the responsibility that implies) without being OF the world?

I feel that Doug has lost his way. It breaks my heart to see him undergoing such pain and struggle. I was very blessed by the Madam Guyon piece, “The Blessedness of Winter.” It is such a poignant way to explain away the ugliness that I see on the outside. I already know of the beauty and potential inside.

[color=0000FF]“Over the years my struggles with my faith have caused a slow erosion in hers.”[/color]

When we met, I had a strong, vital walk with God. I had accepted the Lord four years prior. I was active in the church body, I was involved in outward ministry, I had a strong prayer life, and was surrounded by a body of believers that came alongside me and held my hands up in the times I didn’t have the strength or courage to. I sensed God’s presence and guidance in my life. I was not afraid to listen to Godly council and act on it. I was at the church any time the doors were open … Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night. I went to bible studies on the nights in between if one was being held, and was willingly held accountable by my brothers and sisters in the Lord.

I was not prepared in any way for the reality of the impact marrying can have on a woman who is a believer (or at least the way it impacted me). I was 28 years old when we married. Suddenly I have a covering, one who stands in the gap (I didn’t realize there WAS a gap!) between God and my husband. If he’s heard from God that we are to move in a new direction, yet I haven’t gotten the same sense from the Lord, it is my wifely duty to trust my husband’s wisdom and guidance. One, two, three, four … five times?? (Seven times seventy?) Different churches each time. Not enough time to get built into the fabric of the church family before he decides this wasn’t the right decision after all and bails out. Months of not going to church before risking trying another. More isolated with each move. Craning my neck as I look backward to what was. Despairing of what I see before me. How many times before I find myself shaking my fist at God, saying, “He loves You with all his being!! Why can he not discern your direction more clearly? Surely this is not what you had in mind for us, God!”

Doug’s struggles weren’t with his faith – his struggles were and continue to be with the church. The eternal quest to find a like-minded body of believers. People who are not afraid to be transparent and real with one another. True worship that encompasses heart, soul, body and mind – that draws one into the very Holy of Holies … to bow at the feet of the One True God. If one has once tasted of that experience, how can one accept anything less? If we had only known what we had before we so blithely left that first church. Now many years and 1700+ miles stand between us. There’s no going back at this point. And even if we did, would it still be “home”? Not likely. We’ve gone back to visit and felt like strangers in a strange land. Is it any wonder I’m discouraged? Or unwilling to try it yet again?

[color=0000FF]“I will leave you with this. Tell your wife exactly how you feel. Tell her your love for her and how you feel responsibility for her not going to church now, etc. Then tell her you have determined to follow Jesus with every ounce of your being and do it. Go to church even if she doesn't. Be faithful, sometimes our spouse is waiting to see if we really mean it this time.”[/color]

You have hit the nail on the head, and Doug has done this. When he decided to go back to church last June, I initially told him that he needed to prove that he would stay with it – that I couldn’t bear to go with him only to be torn away again. After a few months where he went faithfully, I was afraid that if I were to begin going to church with him again that it would change the dynamic of what I saw the Lord doing in his life. I didn’t want to risk it. Then he started begging me and attempting emotional blackmail to get me back at his side in church. It only makes me resist that much more. I haven’t rejected God, my beliefs, or my knowledge/understanding of His word. What I HAVE done is forsake the assembling of the saints. I have stopped nourishing my relationship with Him. And so I have withered on the vine. Any more, going to church for me is a social outlet, and the hypocrisy of that eats at me like a cancer.

[color=0000FF]“I understand the body of Christ has disappointed you...but this thread shows you are not as alone as you might suspect! Jesse Penn Lewis, in her book War on the Saints, reminds us that the Spirit...the presence of Jesus, is not our own private unique supply, but is one presence given to be shared in the body of Christ. We can not progress in God without communion in Christ's body.”[/color]

Well said. Why are the long-sought-after, like-minded brethren anonymous people on a website and not our neighbors and coworkers and fellow church-goers? I long for God to wake up the corporate body of Christ, and for His spirit to move upon us once again.
\t
[color=0000FF]“One thing that is seriously going to have to change in many circles in the Body of Christ is our expression of love one towards another. For so long there has been a "Never let them see you sweat" attitude that the enemy has singled out many and attacked them to the point of despair. Add to that a constant barrage of repentance preaching and a scenario of despair develops.“[/color]

How do we bring out that change? I’ve seen the “Sunday mask” at every church we’ve attended over the last ten or more years. It says, “I’m OK, and you’d better be OK too. If you’re not, don’t burden me with your problems. I don’t have the time or energy for it. Here’s a mask. Put it on, please.” It’s as though they hand them out at the doors. How can we encourage one another in pursuing a deeper, more fulfilling relationship with God when we’re behind that kind of barrier? If we can’t admit we’re struggling, how can we pray effectively or intercede on one another's behalf? When you feel that you are the only one struggling, while all else are maintaining or growing in their faith, you’re right. You become ripe for the picking. The enemy is surely wily. One must be bold, and able to command the attention of many to even begin to effect change. What if you’re halting of speech in a crowd? What if your personal insecurities rise up like a roaring lion at the mere thought of speaking in a large group setting? What if you don’t have your pastor’s ear? What if you’re perceived as emotionally weak, and therefore suspect?

[color=0000FF]“Stop focusing on just the things that are wrong and allow God's grace to shine through.”[/color]

Wise council, indeed. I apologize that this has been a rant rather than an encouragement. I never would have thought to post my thoughts on this site had Doug not encouraged me to do so. Just know how thankful I am to you all for your prayers, your encouragement and emotional support.

With His love,
Carol

G
ginnyrose Mar 1, 2007

Dear Doug and Carol,

You all are hurting dreadfully, which leaves us at a loss to know exactly what one can say. Many have given wise counsel and what can one add to it? Mind if I make a couple of points?

1. Doug, do not ever in your imagination consider putting your wife away. You have vowed to God you will love and cherish her till you die and you will be held responcible to keep this vow. Do you cherish her? That is a command, not a suggestion. Think about it for a minute: what does this all entail? Does it not mean you provide for her physically, materially, spiritually? Have you done it?

2. Employment is honorable. Where have you ever gotten the idea that working at a job is not a form of ministry? For beginners consider 2 Thess. 3:10: For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. Work was expected of man, commanded of man BEFORE the fall. Work did not result from the fall: thorns and thistles and working by the sweat of your brow did. But not work itself. It is honorable; God also worked. Seems to me your attitude about work needs some readjusting. Since you have not suceeded in the real estate business, why not go back to trucking? Do something that will provide for your wife so she stay at home. Assume your rightful role as provider, leader in your home.

3. People are the most imperfect creatures around, Christians not exempted. Perhaps you are looking too much on others' imperfections...do you have perhaps a critical spirit which is serving as a barrier to your finding a brotherhood to fellowship with? Your wife has some legitimate complaints....work with her, she is your helpmeet.

4. Discouragenment. We all have to deal with it sooner or later. No one is immune from its lure. And have you ever considered why it is so attractive? Does it not happen when we focus our eyes on ourselves and not on the LORD Jesus? Remember Peter when he tried to walk on water? He did as long as he kept his eyes on the LORD. But when he took them off of Him, he started to sink.

Brother, many have told you they are praying for you and your wife and have worked hard to encourage you. Now it is up to you: you can either choose to spend one more night with the frogs or you can ask the Creator to kill dem things! and get them out of the house less they stink!

Bless you, Doug and Carol...will be thinkiing and praying for you.

ginnyrose

G
Goldminer Mar 1, 2007

Dear Carol & Doug,

Wow, what a blessing you both are. It is so easy to see the reason for your despair. You both have such a fire for God and you have had to endure so much from those who should support and nurture you. You haven't had the loving fellowship that God wants the body to minister one to another, and you have have a fire shut up in your bones and you haven't been able to connect with those of like mind.

[color=9900FF]Pro 13:12 Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but [when] the desire cometh, [it is] a tree of life.[/color]

[color=9900CC]Ecc 4:12 And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.[/color]

[color=9900CC]Ecc 4:10 For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him [that is] alone when he falleth; for [he hath] not another to help him up. [/color]


I too have been through much frustration with the condition of the church and I have even been alienated because I stood up and said something about the condition. At times I have been in despair even as you describe. However I have come to the conclusion if I am waiting for the perfect fellowship I will be staying at home. Even now I am at at church has some issues.

This is what I found out. It is good to love. I may not be thrilled with the worship or the doctrine, or many other things but I can go and show love to those who need it. I have to go looking for what I can give of myself to those who need a prayer or a hug or a word. In doing this I find that most are in the same condition I am, in need of love and fellowship. When I forget about myself and minister to others needs I find myself fulfilled. Love covers a multitude of sins and shortcomings of others.

Also I would say to Doug we are already in full time ministry. God wants to give us every place where we place our foot. The entire scope of our lives is an oportunity of ministry. I own a business and daily people come across my path who I can pray for and minister to. Our life is ministry. Allow God to open doors and close doors.

The thing to remember is that when God puts something in your heart there is always a period of gestation. You need to allow God time to bring it to fulfillment. In the mean time your family needs to be provided for.

Also Carol, I have had to learn that even though my husband is the head, and mine isn't serving the Lord yet, I have had to learn to trust in God for everything. I look to my husband but at the same time I understand that nothing can touch me unless it goes through God's loving hands. He will never leave me or forsake me. He shall supply all my needs according to His riches in glory. It is just that, God is trustworthy. You don't have to fear for anything.

Mat 6:25 ¶ Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

Mat 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

Mat 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

Mat 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith?

Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

This is what I believe. God will always be faithful to His children. You can cast all your care on Him for He careth for you.

Be encouraged dear brother and sister. Your love for each other is refreshing. That has wonderful potential. God can work with that.

Don't be discouraged your obvious desire for true holiness is sure to be rewarded. Your tender hearts towards God is a gift, treasure it.

Finally love each other. Refuse to have thoughts of divorce. This should never be an option to christians for any reason other than infidelity, even then forgiveness is better. Respect and reverence each other, even if you don't agree. Pray together about everything. Even your heart for transparency with each other is rare.

You are both a blessing. I will be praying for you.

G
ginnyrose Mar 1, 2007

Doug,
I just thought of something else you might want to consider...you want to be in ministry...but you said you have worked at trucking. Why do you not do both? You can make copies - CDs or tapes - of inspiring sermons and place them in truck stops where truckers can pick them up for free? There is a man in Dayton, VA who has a ministry who does nothing but this, recycling cassette tapes, recording sermons on them. Truckers will stop by, picking them up by the hundreds and leaving them at truck stops down the road for other truckers to pick up. If you want more info, you can pm me and I will be happy to give you that info.

ginnyrose

J
John173 Mar 1, 2007

Praise the Lord! While I am not through the woods, and ask that you continue to remember me in your prayers, I am greatly encouraged tonight.

First, may God richly bless each and every one of you who prayed and responded with such godly love, encouragement and wisdom. There is not a single post that did not minister to my heart enormously. Thank you so much. I have tears in my eyes again, well at least one. This time not from pain but from thanksgiving.

I Came home from church this evening encouraged greatly. Two brothers picked up on my despondancy and asked if they could pray with me. It is very encouraging to have real live relationships developing slowly but surely within the local church I attend. The study this evening must have been hand picked by the Holy Spirit just for me. It still amazes me how timely a word can be! The bottom line of tonights teaching was to never give up.

When I arrived home I found my wife just finishing up the previous post. She was unsure about submitting it and asked me to read it. I felt it was quite accurate and asked her to post it. We talked and I told her I was feeling some direction about the income issue. Now I must follow through on His leading. The bottom line is I won't be leaving any time soon as long as I do follow through. Part of that leading involves going to homes for sale by owner and asking for their business in a particular manner that I believe is from the Lord. Please pray that I would have the boldness to do so. Part of the approach is to speak plainly about my faith, making mention of the 'golden rule' and therefore have rejected the typical sales approach.

Please continue to pray for my wife. She needs so much healing and encouragement. If you would like to respond to her post I encourage you to do so here on this thread and I'll make sure she sees it. Does anyone know if two seperate user names can be used from the same computer? If so she may join on her own. She is certainly open to this type of fellowship.

In closing I want to address the issue of my church. While I don't connect well with my pastor, I have the utmost respect for him as a leader. He is a man devoted to the Lord and to His truth as revealed in the Word. His hearts desire is for revival. I made mention of my frustration with the lukewarmness of the saints there. Most of these brothers and sisters love the Lord with all their heart. They may not exhibit the outward fire I long for, but they are well grounded in the Word and have a maturity born out of sitting under solid bible teaching. This body is without doubt the one I am called to call home.


[color=009933]Romans 15:13 Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.[/color]

With incredible thanksgiving to God and His saints,

Doug

B
brokenvessel Mar 1, 2007

Dear Doug and Carol,

My bother, my sister, have travelled down that road for around 18yrs albeit the scenery changes slightly and looking back( something that the Lord has brought me to do these past few days), I stand in awe of Him and say, "Grace, grace, it's all of grace" and fall before Him weeping.

And 2 days back, the Lord led me to meditate on these verses which I am still doing and it's speaking volumnes to me. These words are now written on the table of my heart.

Psalms19:12-14
Who can understand his errors?
Cleanse thou me from secret faults

Keep back thy servant from presumptous sins;
let them not have dominion over me:
then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression

Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength and my redeemer.

I pray for rivers of living water to flow out of your belly, for with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
(Isaiah 12:1-6)
And in that day thou shalt say, O LORD, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me.
Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is my salvation.
Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
And in that day shall ye say, Praise the LORD, call upon his name, decalre his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.
Sing unto the LORD; for he hath done excellent things: this is known in all the earth.
Cry out and shout, thou inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee.

Loving you in Him and watching with Him in pray for you.

your sister,
ling

J
jimp Mar 1, 2007

hi, maybe i am one of the people in the church that make others aghast. i have been saved for over 40 yrs and filled with His spirit about the same. i trust the finished work of Jesus on the cross for my salvation,sanctification, and glorification ONLY. i have been in and out of ministry for decades and i am working out my OWN salvation.it is Gods church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. i find great joy in the fact that Jesus bled and died for me personnally.therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation and in that day shall you say praise the Lord. rejoice evermore for this is the will of God for you. the joy of the Lord is your strength.brother len and i would weep over the lost in prayer but never lost the real meaning of the empty tomb... life...zoe life. He is a covenant keeper,maker and cutter and we are the always undesrving partners. paul made tents, peter fished len was a tailor. be encouraged for the greatest weapon of satan is the grey shapeless object... discouagement. jimp

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