Matt 23:39 Second Coming?

This verse below was quoted by Dr Michael Brown in the video clip in bartle's thread 'replacement theology', in the Lounge.

I was alarmed at Dr Brown's explanation of its meaning, and would like more discussion from the saints here, of what you all read from it.

If anyone thinks it would be helpful to link the video clip to this thread and knows how to do that, please feel free to post it early for me.

Matthew 23:39 (NKJV)
"for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, 'Blessed [i]is[/i] He who comes in the name of the LORD!' "

Psalms 118:26
Blessed [i]is[/i] he who comes in the name of the LORD!
We have blessed you from the house of the LORD.

My first question is really, [i]who[/i] was it that came in the name of the Lord, first, before the Lord was revealed in Israel?

I think I know, but, what do the rest of you say?

I am wondering whether the loud silence from SI forum members means you all agree with Dr Brown that this verse is about the special place Jews have in the second coming of Christ?

If so, I'd be glad for some of you to put that in writing here. 8-)

Hi mom23beagles,

I noticed you also bumped up the 'replacement theology' thread and I'm looking forward to a bit more discussion there also, which is where I picked this up from the clip which is available in the leading post there.

I didn't hear the sermon

I always thought that Psalm 118:26 was a prophecy regarding the entrance of Jesus into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday?

Slightly retitled, I'm bumping this thread up again with a further thought..... that the majority of posters here do not think of themselves as being 'in the name of Jesus' - called to act on His behalf and with His authority - like an ambassador or herald for Him?

Therefore, when it is suggested that the Lord Himself is the One who comes 'in the name of Jesus', no-one here thinks that's a strange interpretation .....? :-o

Also with reference to Jesus' actual words about being seen by those to whom the ambassador comes, surely, then, this cannot be a reference to seeing Jesus in His resurrection body with their natural eyes, but to seeing Jesus with spiritually opened eyes, as described here:

2 Corinthians 3
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the [i]veil[/i] is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
16 Nevertheless [u]when one turns to the Lord[/u], [b]the veil is taken away[/b].

Hi Chris,

Yes thanks... time is flying by, though ....

Thanks for your thoughts.

John 5:43
"I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.

So in respect to this verse, you would be suggesting that Jesus, at the moment He was saying this, was referring to His Father, as 'the Lord'? Have I got that right?

Matthew 10:40
" He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.

I can see the point you're making, but that isn't really what Dr Brown seemed to be saying.... What my ears hear in his one sentence explanation of this verse, is, that Jews have some major part to play in the Second Coming, because Jesus said 'you will not [i]see[/i] me again until you [can] say 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord', by which Dr Brown implies two things.....

1) they will not say this until they can see Jesus with their [i]physical[/i] eyes

(Please note, I'm [u]not[/u] suggesting people won't see Jesus with their physical eyes when He returns.)

2) they will have an opportunity to be saved then

Whereas, my impression of the Second Coming, is that it will be final. Those who are not in Christ [i]before[/i] He returns, will have missed their opportunity to be saved.

John 20:29
Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed [are] those who have not seen and [yet] have believed."

Hi David,

You said

My take on that is - It is in reference to Jesus visibly putting his foot on the mount of olives.But cant say for sure.Do you agree?......

Nevertheless, there are several verses which say we see Him now, and I'm increasingly of the mind that this is something Christians should be looking for by way of revelation from God.

Here are a few to chew upon meditatively....

John 14:17
"the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

1 John 3:6
Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Hebrews 2:9 (Young)
and him who was made some little less than messengers we see--Jesus--because of the suffering of the death, with glory and honour having been crowned, that by the grace of God for every one he might taste of death.

1 Cor 9:1
... have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? ...

(This last verse above has to be understood, I believe, in the light of this also that Paul said:

2 Corinthians 5:16
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [i]him[/i] no more.)

Hi David,

Here are four sections of scripture which, I believe, illuminate what Jesus meant in those last three verses of Matt 23. Matthew, above the other gospel writers, quotes Isaiah's prophecies to the gentiles, as part of his entreaty to Jews to believe, however belatedly.

(NKJV) Mark 1:1 - 15
The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

As it is written in the Prophets: "Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You. The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the LORD; Make His paths straight.' "

John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Then all the land of Judea, and those from Jerusalem, went out to him and were all baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins. Now John was clothed with camel's hair and with a leather belt around his waist, and he ate locusts and wild honey.

And he preached, saying, "There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. "I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

It came to pass in those days [that] Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan. And immediately, coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove. Then a voice came from heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Immediately the Spirit drove Him into the wilderness. And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan, and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered to Him.

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."

Matthew 21:32 - 45
"For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him; but tax collectors and harlots believed him; and when you saw, you did not afterward relent and believe him.

Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another.

Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.' So they took him and cast [him] out of the vineyard and killed [i]him.[/i] Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?" They said to Him, "He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease [i]his[/i] vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons."

Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD's doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes'? Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder."

Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them.

Matthew 26:29
"But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom."

[This last verse militates strongly against any suggestion that Jesus is going to come again in any other manifestation than He already has, even at His second coming, for the [i][b]purpose[/i][/b] of [u]evangelisation of unbelievers[/u].]

Luke 16:12 - 16, 29 - 31
"And if you have not been faithful in what is another man's, who will give you what is your own? No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."

Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him. And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God. The law and the prophets [i]were[/i] until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.

"Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.'

And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'

But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' " end of quotes

Jesus says that John the Baptist was the last [u]prophet[/u], even though He Himself, being the Word, explained all things to His disciples.

Hi Jay,

I see in scripture that there will be a future period of a great Jewish revival in which God removes the partial hardening.

I've had to remind myself this is a man who is used to being questioned, being an academic, and who is nevertheless very serious about his faith in Jesus. I intend to listen to a few of his messages, to see if he shows any comprehension of adoption.

I don't have a problem believing many Jews will be saved latterly. Perhaps this has already begun, though we have little way of determining if it has.

What bothered me completely was the application of this verse (in the title of the thread) to that process of their salvation, as if there is going to be a second coming especially for Jews to be saved before the rest of prophecy pertaining to the second coming is completely fulfilled; whereas to my mind, the Church is now the Body of Christ, and it is [u]we[/u] who come in the name of the Lord, in whom He should be being seen recogisably, in a similar way to Paul being able to say:

Galatians 3:1
... who hath bewitched you, that ye should not [u]obey the truth[/u], [b]before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth[/b], [u][b]crucified[/b] among you? [/u]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for more food for thought.

I wonder if we are talking at cross-purposes here, if you believe Jesus was referring to His second coming, when He made that statement / observation in Jerusalem.

As I've said, I don't see how this has anything to do with the evangelisation of Jews. Nor is this a discussion about the Trinity, but about whether Jesus could come in His Father's name [i][b]again[/b][/i] for the specific purpose of evangelising Jews, to sweep them into the kingdom at the last minute - which is what Dr Brown seemed to be saying towards the end of the interview.

It is this interpretaion which I dispute, because I believe Jesus' first coming was successful in the evangelisation of those who should have been saved, at that time (Acts 2:47 (Jews), Acts 13:48 (gentiles)) and the Church has continued down through the generations, all the while with Jews and gentiles coming to know Jesus as Saviour and Lord.

So, when Dr Brown says by implication that the Jews will 'see' Him at His second coming but links this to a time of mass evangelisation of Jews, I have difficulty holding this with the reality of Church history, and I 'hear' human thinking - albeit acknowledging Dr Brown's intentions are the best with regard to drawing Jews to their (and our) Messiah.

There seems to be a great forgetfulness of the first promise of the Saviour, made to Adam and Eve, when they alone were the whole human race.

There also seems to be either a fear of explaining the adoption of sons properly, or, a genuine lack of understanding of this aspect of salvation, on Dr Brown's part, which I detected in another talk - A Baptism of Tears for Israel - of his which Neil kindly posted near the end of the page here:

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15382&forum=35&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0]https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15382&forum=35&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0[/url]

Dr Brown's interpretation makes it easier for Jews to imagine a whole world of fulfilment of their supposed destiny, which avoids truly embracing the implications of the cross with regard to any natural inheritance, thus virtually robbing them of the resurrection life to which they are completely entitled.

psalm1 said

Hi dorcas, you are a deep thinker!

I am not sure what you are getting at but you are getting at something.

That is significant. Because it was the scripture containing these prophecies and history, which the first believers expounded to support their claim that Jesus had fulfilled ALL those scriptures which pertained to the Messiah.

I agree that we refer to Jesus as the Prophet, spoken of by Moses, (Acts 3:22, 23), and that the gifts of the Spirit, of which prophecy is one of the most important, pertain today.

the socond coming Jesus does come visibly.....Do you agree?....

What does the second coming have to do with Jews coming to faith [i][b]after[/i][/b] that? Do you read anything of that from Matt 23:39?

Hi staff,

Jesus said that John in fact was greater than a prophet. [b]I think what he meant was that John filled the role of an appostle or "sent out one" which was [u]a new testament office[/u] which was greater than the office of a prophet but had not been mentioned yet[/b].

Seeing it in the context of John being the fulfillment of the prophecy that Elijah would come again, is also interesting, as often biblical revelation comes in threes - in the sense of their being a first, a second and a third, which expound the same truth from different angles and depths. In this case, Elijah, John, and then Jesus Himself.

(Interesting that Elisha so wanted to have a double portion of the Spirit that rested on Elijah, making another three.)

Taking John as the first 'sent out one', makes Jesus the second, and those obeying the great commission, the third (wave), so to speak.

Don't quite know why these threes strike me so strongly, but I think maybe if we miss them we miss connections clearly on the surface of the page, spread out over history, helping to link up the various revelations God has given of His heart and mind.