The Rapture - A False Hope

sermonindex wrote:
Saints,

I believe with all my heart that we are going to enter into times of persecution world-wide for [b]all christians[/b], we will not escape this with the rapture. If there is a pre-tribulation rapture it will none the less feel as though we are going to the tribulation before the rapture happens. God help us with our false security, I see it so strongly in these videos and books that are being produced to a "western" church that does not want to suffer.

I strongly believe this statement.
I also believe that God wants His church to use the time He is so graciously giving His Church now, to prepare for those days that lie ahead. However, preparation is to be done in the Spirit and by the Spirit, not in the flesh.
I think Cyrus Schofield's opinion would probably differ than mine though in this area.
What's wrong with suffering though? As far as I can remember, it has always brought me much closer to God by teaching me not to rely on my own strength and understanding. Praise God :-D

An undeserving brother,

Richie

Heb 5:7 "Who in the days of his flesh,when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;"

Heb 5:8 "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;"

Matthew Henry: "We should learn by all our afflictions a humble obedience to the will of God."

"Today's church wants to be raptured from responsibility."
-L.Ravenhill

I, like, totally agree!

Still, I'll take any hope of Rapture I can get, particularly when I'm sitting in a jail cell for talking about Roman's 1:19.

And I'm already on record for it.

Ah, well, I'll miss my stuff, my house, my garden, whatever dogs I have then, but so long as I have books, and my memory I'm fine. If they give me a bible too, just missing Romans 1:19, well I remember what it says! If I get nothing but my memory, my long term one is just fine! And The Holy Spirit gives me great songs too.

And dying - well, maybe not in America, not before the Anti-Christ, at least as a rule, but if so, I'm ready. And I'll get a crown out of it, and a close place to Jesus.

And that would be well worth it!

Blessings,

I agree with you, Greg. I have been encouraging my Christian friends to hide the Word of God in their hearts (i.e., memorize Scripture). Anti-Christ forces may be able to take our bibles away, but they cannot take what we have hidden in our hearts.

Stever. "Rapture- A false hope" means something.

Lol. Sounds like Greg is a post-trib supporter.

Now, about your 'facts' where did the 'shepard of hermes' say this. Thats the ONLY one that taught pre-trib from your 'facts'.

Now about this belief that the 'church of Thesalonica' felt they 'missed' the rapture. Where is your evidence to support this? I've never heard that said before.

If your gonna state some pretty strong statements, I hope you can back them up with citations. Don't ask me to do the research because YOU said that.

And I can't find the infomation.

Chao.

P.S. After further look, it seems that the 'shepard of hermes' is an deutercanon book. Or 'false book'. So, that's not really a strong citation. Unless, I looked incorrectly. :-D

In Addition, to quote from a site "At the same time, second and third century writers of lists of canonical works sometimes included disputed writings that were eventually rejected like the apocalyptic work The Shepherd of Hermes." [url=http://oldweb.uwp.edu/academic/english/canary/canon.html]Citation[/url]

Hi,
The title of this post is wrong in the sense that what the bible calls our "blessed hope" has been turned into "a false hope".
Where your opinion on when the rapture happens is not important because it still remains our "blessed hope" no matter whether it is before,in the middle or after!How do I know this because the bible describes it so.
[size=xx-small][color=CC0000]Tts 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;[/color][/size]
Its our hope no matter where the rapture comes and no matter whether we go through tribulation or not and no matter whether that tribulation is the great tribulation or not.
I think the title is a bit naughty! and may cause confusion.
After saying that I get what your saying that alot of christians seem to believe that we will be saved out of all tribulation and everything will be rosy but I think if we studied about the rapture we can see that belief is wrong.So many christians are going through tribulation as we speak throughout the world unto death some of them.Change the title not the scripture!
Rgds staff

Hi,
As to the other questions raised by the post,The condition of the world prior to any deliverance?The difficulties in following God and when will deliverance come.

Jesus clearly gave Lot and Noah as examples in Luke.The Genesis account of Lot clearly explains what its going to be like,its bad and they escape by the skin of their teeth!Noah their witness is ignored totally.Its bad conditions,things are bad, things get worse but deliverance comes.

And to when deliverance comes:It will be [color=0000FF]before [/color]Judgement like in the flood and sodom and gomorah."Until the day" and "But the same day"
God would not judge until his people were delivered in the two examples Jesus gave.Not some preacher of reputation but Jesus himself.

Luk 17:24\t\tFor as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one [part] under heaven, shineth unto the other [part] under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

\tLuk 17:25\t\tBut first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

\tLuk 17:26\t\tAnd as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

\tLuk 17:27\t\tThey did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, [size=xx-small][color=FF0000]until the day[/color][/size] that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

\tLuk 17:28\t\tLikewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

\tLuk 17:29[size=xx-small][color=990000]But the same day [/color][/size]\t\t that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
T
\tLuk 17:30\t\tEven thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.[

I think God has to go back to deal with Isreal in the end and to deal with the world.He has to take us out to do that.Post Great Tribulation rapture is a non starter unless he's rapturing the Jews!
There will be tribulation and hard times however,

rgds Staff

hi,Regarding below :I realise that totally and agree with you in totally in the point you are making,Deliverance will be more like jumping into a lifeboat rather than getting picked up by luxury yacht!

[size=xx-small]My intention is putting the title for this thread was not to nullify a "rapture" for that will happen no matter what position we hold. But to address a abuse and "false hope" or rather "escapism" mentality without suffering any persecution or harm. So much of the modern "rapture" teaching is a false hope IN THE WAY it is being taught. Thank you for your careful observerance of this and I do not intend to stumble anyone in their "great hope" of God coming back to bring us up with him forever. What a glorious day that will be![/size]
With Love
Staff

The notion that the rapture allows you to escape tribulation is wrong. It is misleading to suggest that the rapture leads to false hope when it is a misunderstanding of the rapture and its purpose that leads to false hope.

I am no "theologian" but I understand this: all who follow Christ will suffer persecution. But I also believe in a pretribulation rapture that removes God's people before the great tribulation of the world when God pours out His wrath upon the unrepentant.

When put in its proper perspective there is no false hope.

Kerry

REPLY: To Greg:

The twelve apostles were sent by Jesus to warn the house of Israel of their coming judgement and destruction. I believe that the house of Israel went through the “ great tribulation” on the day of the Lord on the day of judgement on their generation. There were 144,000 of the Elect that escaped out of the cities by leaving behind all earthly possessions and fleeing when they saw what was described by Daniel. I believe they were the remnant that God takes out of every generation when that generations iniquity is full.

Matthew 24: 15. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

I believe the day of the Lord will come to this generation when the present generations enquiry is full.
I believe that a remnant will be saved from the great tribulation that will come when the Lord shall judge this generation.
I believe I will live in the mist of tribulation hidden in the rock until the time I am called home.
I believe that tribulation increases in the last days of every generation so I pray that I to will be able to stand by faith like Shadrach , Meshach and Abednego.

However, the rapture was taught by the early Church (the imminent return of Jesus Christ at any moment) was taught from AD 80-250)
:

Also, if you read the entire text of Hermes, you will see that this "rescue" Hermes talks about is aligned with Mt. 24:31-----the gathering of the live on earth and the "dead" in heaven----again another picture of I Thess. 4:14-17 that some teach is a pre-trib rapture, but is actually the second coming of Jesus when He comes in Glory to gather ALL that belong to Him.

And to when deliverance comes:It will be before Judgement like in the flood and sodom and gomorah."Until the day" and "But the same dayGod would not judge until his people were delivered in the two examples Jesus gave.Not some preacher of reputation but Jesus himself."

The Jews that come to faith in Christ are of the same Body that we are. (Rom. 11, Eph. 2:12-22). God will not come to rescue some of His children, but leave those who are "in the womb" to suffer what many say is "His wrath". We will remain until the "END". Remember the parable of the 1 lost sheep. He did not take the others to safety before going out to look for the one lost, He left them all in the WILDERNESS. When He found the one lost sheep He THEN took them ALL home to celebrate.........and so it shall be when He comes again. We will be left in the "wilderness" until He finds ALL the sheep that belong to Him---all that the Father gave to Him (Jn. 6). Then He will gather all that belongs to Him together (Mt. 4:30-31, Mk. 13:27, Eph. 1:10, James 5:7).

In regards to the judgment that will fall: if we look at what happened to both S&G and the world in Noah's day---------ALL the people not in places of safety DIED. Destruction was COMPLETE. This is not the picture of the pre-trib rapture teachings. They teach people will STILL be able to come to Jesus. Actually, the pictures of Lot and Noah are pictures of the Second Coming. THAT destruction will be complete. ALL that are not "in Christ" (in the ARK), will be COMPLETELY destroyed----II Thess. 1:7-10).

Consider the years of many generations we are only special because Jesus died for our sins and reconciled the repentant to our Heavenly Father. I don’t know when the final generation will come but when it does our Lord and Savior will be the victor and the tares will be gathered out of the world first and burned. Eddie
Matthew 1: 38-42
The field is the world, the good seed are the children of the kingdom, but the tares are the children of the wicked one, the enemy that sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the world, and the reapers are the angels.
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire so shall it be in the end of this world.
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity, and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Deuteronomy 32: 7-20 KJV
Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations, ask thy father, and he will shew thee, thy elders, and they will tell thee. When the most high divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. For the Lord's portion is his people, Jacob is the lot of his inheritance. He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness, he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye. As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings
So the Lord alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him. He made him ride on the high places of the earth, that he might eat the increase of the fields, and he made him to suck honey out of the rock, and oil out of the flinty rock, butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat, and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape.
But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness, then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the rock of his salvation. They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger. They sacrificed unto devils, not to God, to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. Of the rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee. And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.