U.S. COURT OF APPEALS RULES AGAINST CHRISTIAN FREEDOM OF SPEECH

sermonindex Mar 16, 2007

In an amazing (but not surprising) ruling this month, the very liberal 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in America concluded that words such as ~~[b]~~"marriage"[/b] and ~~[b]~~"family values"[/b] constitute ~~[i]~~~~[b]~~hate speech[/b][/i] that could ~~[i]~~frighten[/i] homosexual employees. The ruling restricts the right of free speech of Christian employers of the city of Oakland, California, arguing that ~~[i]~~"public employees are permitted to curtail employee speech as long as their legitimate administrative interests outweigh the employee's interest in freedom of speech"[/i] ("9th Circuit Endorses Censoring Christians," WorldNetDaily, March 8, 2007).

The ruling was against two Oakland city employees who attempted to organize the "Good News Employee Association" as a forum for ~~[i]~~"people of Faith to express their views on the contemporary issues of the day with respect for the Natural Family, Marriage and Family values."[/i] This was in response to the continual assault of homosexual propaganda by Oakland's Gay-Straight Employees Alliance (GSEA), which is supported by the city.

The GSEA is allowed to attack the Bible and to describe Christians as hateful in e-mails that are widely disseminated and on the city's bulletin board, but when some employees attempted to counter this propaganda they were ordered to cease and desist and their statement in favor of Family, Marriage and Family Values, which they had posted to the bulletin board, was deemed ~~[b]~~"homophobic"[/b] and a form of ~~[b]~~"sexual-orientation-based harassment."[/b]

When homosexuals are given their "rights," Bible-believing Christians lose theirs. The Pro-Family Law Center, which is defending the plaintiffs, has vowed to take the case to the Supreme Court.

People we need to be in prayer about this. It wont be long before forums like this one are deemed unconstitutional. We often say on here that we need men like Spurgeon or Wesley today, and we do. But we also need men like John Adams and Thomas Jefferson as well.

Krispy

E

enid Mar 16, 2007

....I appeal to Caesar, Act25v11

Paul wasn't looking to Ceasar for deliverance, he knew only God could deliver him.

He appealed to Ceaser for justice, but trusted God for the outcome.

Too many Christians suppose that they have to steer clear of politics.

What happens when it knocks on your door, and then slaps you in the face when you open the door?

We need to pray, fast and act.

Satan is zooming in, and we cannot afford for him to close in anymore.

We can all say it is the last days. And so it is. What does that mean?

Does it now mean God is powerless?

Let's face it, God warned us what would happen in the last days, and it is happening right before our eyes.

Does that make us any more complacent that we alreay are, God forbid, or do we fight with the armour of God?

Whatever happens, let us be watching.

God bless.

sermonindex Mar 16, 2007

I recently read a book by David Barton called "Original Intent" which is about the Constitution and the myth of "Seperation of Church and State". It's amazing to read about our founding fathers, and how it was obviously ~~[b]~~never[/b] their intention to keep Christianity out of government or public life. In fact, they said over and over that if Christianity was removed from government and public the result would be... well, what we're seeing today.

Did you realize that in most states in the early years of our country, if you did not believe that there was at least a Diety... you could not hold public office? Can you imagine that today?

Krispy

sermonindex Mar 16, 2007

I'm bumping this cuz I think this is waaaaay more important than people think....

Krispy

H

hmmhmm Mar 16, 2007

this is just the beginning, in Sweden we already have these laws, for example a preacher cant preach from romans about homosexuality, not whiteout risking going to jail, we have seen it happened and i believe it will happened again. There will be more laws against these kind of things,

we must be willing to pay the price...

J

jordanamo Mar 16, 2007

Most of the founding fathers were Deists who did not hold to even the Apostolic Creed. When they referred to God in their writings they meant the Deistic God of the Enlightenment who has his hands behind his back. Nothing near to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

This doesn't bother me, this ruling.

From the case in ruling,

"Public employers are permitted to curtail employee speech as long as their “‘legitimate administrative interests’ outweigh the employee’s interest in freedom of speech.” Pool, 297 F.3d at 906 (quoting Bauer v. Sampson, 261 F.3d 775, 784 (9th Cir. 2001)). In this case, the only limit placed on appellants’ speech was the removal of a single flyer from the wall. Although appellants did receive an oral warning for posting the flyer, no adverse employment action was taken, and the warning alone is insufficient to tip the Pickering balance in appellants’ favor. Appellants were also allowed to submit a new flyer, subject to certain editorial constraints. In light of the minimal interference with appellants’ free speech rights, the district court appropriately described their speech interest as “vanishingly small.” Good News Employee Ass’n v. Hicks, No. C-03-3542 VRW, 2005 WL 351743, at *9 (N.D. Cal. Feb. 14, 2005). Because the district court correctly held that appellees had a more substantial interest in maintaining the efficient operation of their office than appellants had in their speech, appellants cannot establish a viable free speech claim."
(~~[url=http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/coa/memdispo.nsf/pdfview/030507/$File/05-15467.PDF]~~Court Opinion[/url])

I don't necessarily see this as an attack on "free speech"... I think the employer had the clear right to do this.

Jordan

sermonindex Mar 16, 2007

When preaching the truth is outlawed... I'll be an outlaw. I dont care what the courts say. In this country we have Freedom of Speech. If pornographers can hide behind that, then so can Bible believing Christians. It's a fight that Christians need to fight... but too many believers either are too scared or think they cant beat the courts. I seem to remember a story in the Bible about a kid who killed a giant... I also remember in history learning about a bunch of farmers who defeated the greatest empire of that day 200 years ago (no offense philologos!).

Krispy

sermonindex Mar 16, 2007

Most of the founding fathers were Deists who did not hold to even the Apostolic Creed. When they referred to God in their writings they meant the Deistic God of the Enlightenment who has his hands behind his back. Nothing near to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

This is absolutely not true, and is the result of revisionist history. False false false...

This was only true of only a few founding father... mainly Jefferson and Ben Franklin. But is certainly not true of John Adams, George Washington, etc.

You've been fed a lie from the government schools, Jordan. Do some more research. Read the book I mentioned: "Original Intent". There are also many other books out there that contain the writings of the founding fathers. If you have not read their writings, and just learned from other people what they believed, then you dont know. It's like people who dont read their Bibles but depend on teachers to tell them what the Bible says.

Krispy

H

hmmhmm Mar 16, 2007

well the more sin is accepted the more people will not want to hear what they are doing God hates, and they wont like the messengers either

democracy sucks when the majority is a Godless sinful people who makes the laws... but the church in acts didn't care to much about that...so lets do as they did.

sermonindex Mar 16, 2007

Well... America is not a democracy anyway. Never was. It is a Republic. There is a difference. And as far as free speech is concerned, Christians do need to be involved because as that right disolves so does our effectiveness in society because we will not be allowed to preach the gospel.

So I respectfully disagree with you on that point.

Maybe y'all are used to it in Sweden, but most of us here are not... except those who have been more influenced by TV than their Bibles. ("Christians" included)

Krispy

I

InTheLight Mar 16, 2007

Democracy only works when the people deliberately choose God as their ruler and submit themselves and their rights to Him. As God's government is set up over people then they are able to maintain freedom from oppression.

Now what we see happening is that, because of the utter selfishness of men, our citizens insist on using their rights for their own welfare and benefit instead of living unto God with concern for others. (each man does what is right in his own eyes). As a result the pattern is for government to step in and curb selfish tendencies. Although the constitution gives government no such right, they usurp power to act on behalf of what is called the "common good". So mens God given rights are trampled on and we have the current trend toward a welfare state with the inherent seeds of totalitarianism.

The sad thing is that this principle has infected the church where people react against the rule of the Holy Spirit and instead choose self-rule.

In Christ,

Ron

sermonindex Mar 16, 2007

Awesome, Ron! You're right on the money!

(altho America has never been a democracy... we're a Republic by design)

Krispy

T

taco Mar 16, 2007

America is not a democracy anyway. Never was. It is a Republic.There is a difference.

There is a difference.Not every republic is a democracy and not every democracy is a republic.

But, as it happens, the US is both.

There are different forms of democracy but america most definitly can be legitamitaly called one.

In the States capital D Democracy and capital R Republcanism can refer to the principles of the relevant parties but that is a different matter.

sermonindex Mar 16, 2007

Actually, democracy is rule of the majority of the people, whereas a repulic is rule of the majority of represenatives. This means that a particular represenative's constituents may want something to go one way, but the represenative has the power to go against the will of the people and take it the opposite direction. For instance, the majority of people may want cocaine legalized, but if their represenative believes they are wrong, he can vote against the will of the people. Of course, 9 months later he may find himself out of a job.

In a democracy it's "mob rule", as it were. The people vote on every little thing.

So no... we are not a democracy in the purest sense of the word.

Krispy.

T

taco Mar 16, 2007

You are thinking of direct democarcy.

C

ChrisJD Mar 16, 2007

Hi eveyrone.

Krispy,

"Did you realize that in most states in the early years of our country, if you did not believe that there was at least a Diety... you could not hold public office? Can you imagine that today?"

I had posted the following in another thread and thought it would be appropriate to share here also. The copied portion from the post appears in qoutes below...

"...I'd like to share some things from a book I have titled Christianity and the American Commonwealth by Charles B. Galloway which states the following things about several of the State Constitutions:

of New Jersey(1776) it says

"all persons professing a belief in the faith of any Protestant sect,... should be capable of being members of either branch of the Legislature,..."

of New Hampshire

that it "authorised and empowered" the towns thereof, "to make proper and adaquate provision for the maintenance of 'pulic Protestant teachers of piety, religion, and morality.'"

of Deleware

that anyone who would hold public office should delcare "I do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ his Son, and the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed forevermore; and I do acknowledge the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be given by divine inspiration."

of the organic law of North Carolina

that "no person who should deny the being of God, or the truth of the Protestant religion,....should be capable of holding any office or place of trust in the civil government of the state."

of Georgia(1777)

that every member of the House of Assembly "shall be of the Protestant religion."

Similar things are stated about the constitutions of South Carolina and Massachusetts as well."

~~[i]~~end qoute[/i]

sermonindex Mar 16, 2007

but too many believers either are too scared or think they cant beat the courts

I think that what it is Steve is that Christians are passive to this kind of stuff because they are putting all their hope in a Rapture, therefore it's not going to effect them.

I can't help but think of Margeret MacDonalds prophecy way back in the 1800's (I am not getting of topic), it's quite interesting. Her quote:

It was first the awful state of the land that was pressed upon me. I saw the blindness and infatuation of the people to be very great. I felt the cry of Liberty just to be the hiss of the serpent, to drown them in perdition.

LIBERTY is what has lulled us to sleep.

R

rookie Mar 17, 2007

This was only true of only a few founding father... mainly Jefferson and Ben Franklin. But is certainly not true of John Adams, George Washington, etc.

Wasn't one of your first posts on this thread that we need men like Jefferson and Adams?

In terms of Washington, I was visiting goldrush country with my family on Highway 49 in California. I noticed that every town had a prominent Masons Lodge in it. In one museum we visited, there was a letter stating that George Washington had acted as the top Mason in the state of Virginia. I forget what they call that position but I know that one cannot be a Mason and a disciple of Christ at the same time...

Thomas Jefferson wrote his own bible. I guess that is why he was so ardent in supporting free speech...

In Christ
Jeff

sermonindex Mar 19, 2007

Wasn't one of your first posts on this thread that we need men like Jefferson and Adams?

Well, if you want to take what I said out of context and make it mean something I didnt mean, I can see why you would ask that.

However... John Adams was a very strong Christian man. It doesnt take but a few minutes of reading his writings to see that.

As for Jefferson, I am well aware of the fact that he was a Deist, and not a Christian. I mentioned that we needed more men like him today because he was the framer of our Constitution, and thus our laws (which were all based on the Bible, by the way), and he understood exactly what our Constitution meant... unlike most of the judges we have in this country.

AND... it was Jefferson who warned that if the courts in the United States were allowed to have too much power then it wouldnt be long before the judicial system would begin to act like the legislative system and begin decreeing law. Making laws instead of enforcing laws. Which is what we have today.

Hope that clarifies. And yes, I stand behind what I said... we need more men like Jefferson... as it pertains to our country's Constitution and Laws.

We dont need men like Jefferson in the pulpit... we already have enough non-Christians in the pulpit. Though I doubt if we had one more anyone would even notice.

Krispy

P

psalm1 Mar 19, 2007

hi krispy, I just wanted to add that things do look bad not only for christians but anyone standing up for decency.I remember a few years back when judge Roy moore lost to a makeshift federal court. He was actually on trial for displaying the 10 comandments.which are on display in our supreme court.This was a great loss for our country but was barely noticed.Roy does speak at churches by invitation.I heard him speak twice.Very impressive.Our nation is going down. The only thing holding it up is God, his angels and prayer. Also,we produce more missionaries and literature than anyplace else.We still have a powerfull thread of chritianity.anyway the shocker is this; Judge moore stood on the constitution and LOST!HE HAD THE HIGH GROUND! THEY HAD ZERO!.... God bless,David