Millennium views

The Millennium spoken of in Revelation 20. Is it to be taken literally or symbolically? I am back and forth on this issue.

What do the rest of you believe?

Is there a time frame when, the presentation is due?

Are there any credits that may or may not be applied towards the furthering of your Education? And or would this presentation require a draft accompanied by notes?

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JaySaved

Could you explain this to me?

\tThe Characteristics of “Our Glorified” Bodies Every born-again believer will receive an immortal, glorified body. This includes both those who are rapture or resurrected as well as those who live during the Millennium in their human body. The redemption of the body is part of God’s complete plan of Salvation (Romans 8:23). At death, we are absent from the body but consciously present with the lord (2 Corn 5:8). This presumes an intermediate state of some kind between the death of our physical bodies and their ultimate resurrection.

Here are 15 characteristics of our Gloried Bodies:

1.\tPhysical and Material (1 John 1:1-2)
2.\tTransformed (Philippians 3:21)
3.\tRecognizable (Luke 16:19-31)
4.\tImperishable (1 Corinthians 15:42)
5.\tImmortal (1 Corinthians 15:53-57)
6.\tSupernatural Abilities (Luke 24:31,36)
7.\tSinless (Revelation 21:27)
8.\tGlorified (Philippians 3:21)
9.\tUnfailing (1 Corinthians 15:42-43)
10.\tSpiritual (1 Corinthians 15:44)
11.\tHeavenly (1 Corinthians 15:49-57)
12.\tRadiant (Daniel 12:3)
13.\tUnmarried (Matt 22:30)
14.\tFully matured (1 John 3:2)
15.\tNo Negative Effects (Isaiah 65:17)

*COULD, you please explain;

Unmarried

For the first two centuries all of the Church fathers believed in the literal millenial return of Christ. It was orthodox plain and simple and to believe otherwise was akin to denying Jesus' resurrection.. you'd be a heretic. 3rd century, a few stopped believing, then 4th century with Augustine etc. made it almost a heresy to believe that it was literal.

So, it's orthodox, plain and simple. First Church Fathers believed in it. It's in Scripture.

http://www.biblicist.org/bible/premil.shtml

Jordan

Hi,

Just to say that I believe in a literal 1000yr Reign of Christ but it wont be as easy as most people think because the bible says he will rule with a rod of iron.If he has to rule forcefully then their must be some opposition to his rule.
It is my understanding that the millenium is not the kingdom of God so it can come with observation.
Sitting on the fence is not heretical as you are not sure what is the correct view.

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Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Hey, it's over here! or, Hey, it's over there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
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I think Jesus has to rule on earth so he can show us that it is possible.
Rgds Staff

by Compliments on 2007/3/19 17:01:03

Jaysaved, you know better then to ask such a question, your quite knowledgable in almost everything. (and thats a compliment I might add)

A compliment from Compliments!! :-D

I am back and forth on the issue of a literal millennium. Part of me sees the Premillennium perspective and part of me see the Amillennium perspective.

The whole reason I do lean towards the Amillennial position more is because 'thousand' is used in a general sense many times in scripture:
Psalm 50:10, "For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills."

Psalm 90:4, "For a thousand years in your sightare but as yesterday when it is past,or as a watch in the night."

Psalm 105:7-8, "He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth. He remembers his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,"

So this is why I asked the question, maybe some of my fellow SIers can speak a word that will be used by God to bring fresh insight.

I think Peter would be Amillennial. He says in 2 Peter 3 concerning the Day of the Lord.

"3knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. 4They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation." 5For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 6and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. 7But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

8But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

11Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, 12waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! 13But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Peter says that Jesus will return and when He returns the present heaven and earth will be destroyed. Compare this to Revelation 20:
7And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. 9And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven[b] and consumed them, 10and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

I used to lean towards or at least have smypathies towards the amillenial stance, however, in the last year or so become more and more convinced the more I study the prophetic expectations of the Scriptures, that there will be a literal millenium period. There is scarcely an Old Testament prophet that doesn't speak of a coming time where Jerusalem will be exalted above all the other nations. Attempts at spiritualizing or allegorizing such passages as Isaiah 2 and many others simply don't hold up.

KingJimmy, I guess it all comes down to how you view the following question:

"Is the church God's "backup plan" since the Jews rejected Jesus or is the church God's original plan from the beginning?"

I personally see the church as God's original plan and He worked through the Jewish nation to see that plan come to fruition.

This is how I see the Old Testament prophets speaking of the church age instead of a revived Jewish nation. I see Jesus already on David's throne...not waiting to rule in a literal Jerusalem.

Thanks JaySaved,

For answering my question.

"Is the church God's "backup plan" since the Jews rejected Jesus or is the church God's original plan from the beginning?"

I personally see the church as God's original plan and He worked through the Jewish nation to see that plan come to fruition.

If this is true and it is, then the fruitation will remain and bear more fruit.

Pardon my zeal great minds think alike. The Church is was and will always be the 'ORIGINAL PLAN', that has not changed nor will it ever change.

KingJimmy, I guess it all comes down to how you view the following question:

"Is the church God's "backup plan" since the Jews rejected Jesus or is the church God's original plan from the beginning?"

Indeed, a good question to ask. However, I think before we ask what the church is, and what purpose it serves, the first question that we need to ask is what is the Jew and what purpose does this people serve? I don't have time right now to grab all the Scriptures (which are many) needed to support all that I have to say on this topic. But I will try to offer a synopsis, and make allusions to some verses. Hopefully you all know your Old Testament well enough to follow. Lord willing and time permitting, if somebody really needs all the chapters and verses, I'll try to look up those for you.

Basically I understand things as follows. God promised Abraham, Issac, and Jacob that He would greatly multiply their seed, and make of them a great nation. He then promised them that their offspring would one day fully inherit a certain piece of real estate in Palestine. And He also promised them that through their descendants all of the nations of the earth would be blessed.

However, to inherit the land promised to them, and to be a blessing to all the earth, God said that His people would have to be in proper relationship with Him. Otherwise, if they were not in proper relationship with Him, then the descendants of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob could only expect to be expelled from the land that God had promised to the patriarchs.

The children of Israel frequently rebelled against God, and acted as anything but the people God had called them to be. For God had called them to be a holy nation, a peculiar people, and a royal priesthood. And I think this is the one thing that many people fail to realize when talking about the Jews. And it is a crucial concept to realize: Physical Israel was always to be spiritual! For unless they circumcised their hearts through the Holy Spirit, they would never be the people that God had called them to be. And it is their failure (even to date) to circumcise their hearts that has caused them to be anything but the people of God, a peculiar people, a royal priesthood, and blessing to all nations.

Generation of prophet after prophet rose up, calling the nation of Israel to remember the covenant God had made with them, and to be the people He called them to be. But generation after generation failed to heed these words. However, in every generation there was always a remnant amongst the people of God who refused to bow their knee to Baal. And this theme continues throughout all of Scripture, in both Old and New testaments. This remnant people are those who through all generations have always constituted the church. It is the remnant that is the "Israel of God." And it is the remnant people of God that the prophets saw as the hope of the nation, of inheriting the promises made by God to the fathers.

And what were those promises? That God would greatly multiply the seed of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. And that their multiplied seed would one day inherit the land that was promised to them, and that they would dwell in that land undisturbed. And that through their seed, namely through the Messiah, that all the nations of the earth would be blessed. But this could not happen unless the people were in right covenant relationship with God.

And this is where the church, the remnant people of God, composed of both Jew and Gentile, comes into play. For the church, far from being a separate distinct entity and program from the nation of Israel, is actually identified WITH the nation of Israel (see Ephesians 2 specifically) itself. And the purpose of the church, which is primarily Gentile in nature, is to provoke the rest of the nation of Israel to jealousy, so that they might be the people that God has called them to be.

For God still has a purpose that has yet to be fulfilled regarding the nation of Israel. And He will give no rest until Jerusalem be established as the praise of the nations. For as the prophets saw, one day Zion will be lifted up above all nations, and the law of the Lord will go out from Jerusalem, and the nations of the earth will bring their glory into it. And they shall hammer their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks, and never again shall the nations learn war.

These are the things that the prophets spoke about, and will literally be fulfilled during the Millennium.

Thank you KingJimmy for sharing that about the Jews.

I agree with some of it and disagree with some. I will try to make this brief (key word is ‘Try’) On second thought, it is long but please take the time to read it.

Let me explain:
God created Man—Male and Female—in His own image.
In Genesis 1:26-27 we read: “Then God said, ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.’ So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.”
Man rebelled and God first revealed a promised Savior for Man
Genesis 3:14-15, “And the LORD God said unto the serpent…I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”
God chose certain men for Himself in which to bring the promised Savior to man
Genesis 5 tells us of these men whom God chose for Himself. Adam through Noah This is backed up by Luke 3:23-38.
God made a covenant with Noah and his seed
Genesis 9:8-9, “And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying, And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;”
Abram was a descendant of Noah and part of the chosen line through Seth (as mentioned in Luke 3). God made a covenant with Abram…
Genesis 12:1-3, “Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.”
…and Abram’s Seed
Genesis 15:1-5, “After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. And Abram said, LORD God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.”
Genesis 17:1-7, “And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.”
Paul tells us that God preached the gospel to Abraham through this covenant
Galatians 3:7-9, “Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Paul also tells us that the Seed of Abraham is Christ. Christ is the promised Seed that would justify all the nations.
Galatians 3:6Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Paul also explains why the Mosaic Law was given and that it does not disannul the promise made to Abraham to justify all nations.
Galatians 3:17-21, “And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.”
Paul explains the purpose of the Mosaic Law
Galatians 3:22-25, “But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
Paul then explains to us that the promise to Abraham was to Jesus and all who have faith in Jesus.
Galatians 3:26-29, “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

The function of the Jewish nation was to bring the promised Savior into the world. Galatians 4:4-5 says, “But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.” God chose the Jewish people as the people He would use to bring Jesus into the world “at the fullness of time”. Once Jesus came, the chosen people of God became those who are in Christ (believers), not those to whom Christ would come through (Jews).
Look back at the promises made to Abraham. Yes, God promised a small portion of land to Abraham’s immediate descendants, but the fullness of the promise was the gospel presentation that “all nations would be blessed” through Abraham’s Seed.

This is why I said that the church is God's original plan and He worked through the Jewish nation to see that plan come to fruition.

Having said all that, “Hath God cast away his people (the Jews)? God forbid.” (Romans 11:1) Romans 11:5-8 says, “Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.”
Romans 11:11-12 says, “I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?”
Romans 11:25-26 says, “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”

God used the Jews to bring Jesus into the world. Now, that Jesus has come there is no special distinction for the Jewish people. We even see that God blinded the majority of the Jewish people so that they would reject Jesus and thus bring salvation to the Gentiles. This was God’s plan as He told Abraham. There is still a remnant of believing Jews according to grace, but most are hardened. This hardening will last until the “fullness of the Gentiles comes in”. The elect Gentiles are part of the elect mentioned in 2 Peter 3:9. (The fullness of the elect Gentiles and the removal of the Jewish hardening is the reason for God’s patience in delaying His coming). But, even though the Jews have no special distinction, God has not rejected them. By no means, for God used many Jews to spread the Gospel in the early days. Almost all of our New Testament was written by Jews.
God has not rejected the Jews, but once the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, God will remove the blindness upon the Jews and they will come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Hallelujah!

I say all that to say this. In all of what I said, is there any mention of a 7 year tribulation, or a rebuilt Temple, or an antichrist in this rebuilt Temple? No, God will not allow the Jewish people to resort back to Temple worship…Jesus has come! He has abolished all those laws. The law was the schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, now that Christ has come there is no more need for the Temple sacrifices. This is also why I lean more towards the Amillenial position and away from a literal millennium for the Jews only. God’s chosen people is the Church…not the Jews.

Now, that Jesus has come there is no special distinction for the Jewish people.

Forgive me for not having time to reply to the rest of your post as of this moment. However, I thought this particular quote from your post is important to address.

I would strongly disagree with this, that the Jewish people have lost their special distinction. Quite the opposite, they are all the more distinct since the work of Christ on the cross. For as Paul says in Romans, Christ came to confirm the promises made to the fathers (Romans 15:8). And what were those promises? That their descendants would inherit the land promised to them, and that through them (chiefly through Christ who is "the seed" or promise), all the nations of the earth would be blessed.

And it is because Israel has not lost her distinction as the people of God that Paul still looks forward to a time in which all the Jews will be saved. And he sees this as eschatologically important, for if the temporary stumbling of the Jews has resulted in the salvation of many amongst the Gentiles, then what will their conversion mean but life from the dead? Paul sees the conversion of the Jewish people at the end of the age as releasing a blessing that hereto has yet to be seen in this age. Their conversion is so eschatologically important that it ushers in the "not yet" aspect of the "already" aspect of the kingdom of God!

KingJimmy,

Thank you. I need to clarify that statement. What I should have said was that since Jesus has come, the Jews no longer have the exclusive distinction they had before.

I was simply stating that since Christ came, the Jews are no longer 'exclusively' referred to as God's chosen people. I had hoped I had made it clear in my posts that God still dealt with the Jewish people and had not forgotten them.

What I should have said was that since Jesus has come, the Jews no longer have the exclusive distinction they had before.

Thanks for the clarification.

I would say they actually still do have the lone distinction that they had before. For God says of them: "You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth..." (Amos 3:2) For they are the only nation God has chosen and designated as His inheritance amongst the nations. Though other nations will join themselves to the Lord and be numbered as part of His people (Zech 2:11), Israel will still remain distinct, and thus, be exalted above all other nations during the Millennium (Isaiah 2). Thus, those of us who are Gentiles, while we are identified WITH Israel and are part of the elect people of God (Ephesians 2, 1 Peter 2), this doesn't change the unique distinction and election the nation of Israel has as the people of God, over against the rest of the nations.

Brothers,

I am not well studied on this issue. I have not taught a class on it or anything, but this is what I currently believe. I believe that Christ's life, death, resurrection life, and ascension are the literal "firstfruits" of what is going to happen to us.

I believe that all who die in Christ are present with the Lord in spirit, but will be resurrected bodily, and walk on earth just as Jesus did for fourty days. Since I don't know anything deeper or symbolic, I believe we will live and reign with Christ for 1000 years. After that I believe we will all be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I think that makes me pre-. Not sure. Someone please tell me. Feel free to point our any errors.