Tithing

Brothers and Sisters,
This is such an elementary princle of Scripture (or so I thought), but I am so confused about tithing in the New Testament. For certain, I understand that God instituted it under the Law, but is it still required (heavy emphasis on required)? I have a pastor that insists the tithe is still valid, and while I don't necessarily disagree on the basis that we should give into the the kingdom- I have a problem that it should be the standard 10%. He even says that if we neglect the tithe, then we are required to pay an extra 1/5 on top of that. He says that we have to pay God what we owe Him...and quite frankly, I am a little nervous because I just don't have that kind of money :-)

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Paul admonished us to be a "cheerful giver"... never really said we had to tithe.

The tithe in the OT was more of a governmental tax of sorts like we have now (it was like 23%-- its still about 23% in the U.S.)

So I wouldn't tithe at a church, only giving as I had and as God led me. Please don't buy into the lies your preacher gives you concerning tithing. It was necessary in the OT for many reasons but it is no longer applicable. To apply it today is ridiculous. Give as you have and give cheerfully as Paul admonished us.

Jordan

Dear brother john1140 forgive me because you hit a nerve with your question and my rant is not directed at you but the audacity of the demands made on you and your family.

Many continue trying to reach the Kingdom of Heaven by robbing or being in league with those that rob widows as pious works. They make a hypocritical display of virtue attempting to do almighty God's work. What part of the Power Of Almighty God Creator of Heaven and Earth can't hypocrites understand. You are required to help the poor and If you don’t know any poor people then stop hanging out with the wrong crowd and in the wrong places. Serve the Kingdom of God all the time, every minute, every hour and every day. Consider the Ant.
I ask you, I plead with you to stop giving your support to any earthly organizations who in the name of God ask for money. Often all you have to show for it is a pious glare toward the poor and a cold heart toward the unlovable. Who are they serving? What is providing the power? Are they serving the root of evil or God. Don’t perpetuate the sinful display of greed we see over the airways of this country in the name of Our Heavenly Father. Give your love and money to the poor and you want have money leftover to perpetuate this practice. There is enough money in religion but the lack of love is astounding.
Give all you have cheerfully if it is what you purposed in your heart but only if you are motivated by the love and chrity in your Christian Heart. In the days Jesus taught in the flesh, He said to give your money to Caesar because it had his likeness on it. Give to God that which was made in the image of God, you if your Father has replaced your old heart of covetness and greed with a new heart of love and charity.

KJV

Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

KJV
And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Eddie

Rowdy2 and Jordan-
Thank you so very much for your wisdom. I knew something was not right. I sensed the Holy Spirit saying something totally different. My pastor is among those who are influenced by the Word of Faith movement, and so prosperity is woven throughout messages and offering times. It makes me nauseous really... but anyway, thank you for sharing.

Your sister in Christ Jesus,
SP

ditto to all, I would also add that when it was Jesus' turn to give he gave it all.All your money belongs to him.So how do we give it to him? A church offering? I dont know . I always give something to the church to help with expenses. But I think what is correct is giving to the poor, widows,needy,etc.....dont expect the church to do it. In fact I would pull up short of saying its unethical,for this reason;If I came across a desperate need and had nothing to give , how do I show the love of God? Anyway I totally agree with cory and rowdy......God bless,David

Well I would just like to run into just one person that could tell me that they were having a hard time meeting the bill's and putting food on the table, and the local Church down the street Blessed me with enough money to catch up on all my bill's and even helped give me get ahead in life, how many of you run into these folks everyday?

Most Churches want to help folks thousands of miles away and forget about the folks right down the street, I have always wondered why is one mans needs more important than another's? I don't think Jesus would feel that way. The Bible say's you will reap what you sow and I guess giving is giving, but I would like to see more of it done here in America so I could hear the testimonies of the people to lift me up and encourage me that, hey this Church "is" giving back to the local community with an an open heart and hands, so my attitude would be wow! must be something going on in there I might want to check that Church out.

I feel giving is giving and Jesus said when your give into the "least" of me your giving to me, well I don't feel giving to a five million dollar church is giving to the least, actually the Church is playing your stock broker, they are investing your money God gave you to be a good Stewart of and are you getting the return the Pastor has promised you?

I say like the rest of the responses, be a cheerful giver, but I also say be directed to were Jesus sends you and I figure that would be to the needy and not the greedy.

I heard Zac Poonen say something in one of his sermons, that the "bring your tithes into the storehouse" from Malachi was directed to the priests (those who were receiving the initial tithes), and how they were robbing God by not tithing on what they were given. Any other thoughts on this??

The percentage of people who actually tithe to there home church is miserably low.However I don't believe that the principle of bringing the tithe into Gods house has change between the old and new testament and Jesus certainly did not change it any where i read.
Where I attend church is a church plant supported by people from other states wishing to build Gods kingdom here in Utah for Which I will be eternally grateful.
My pastor might talk about money once a year,we don't take a offering per-say but have a basket on a table at the back of the church.
Does my church need money to pay bills Yes- does God need money from me i doubt it!!!!, the money that i give is between me and God and for me it is an act of worship that i love to do.

My opinion is that if you don't feel any leading from God talk to him about it and go where he leads. Just some thoughts.
Jeff

Well, guys, I hate to rain on your parade, but you need to consider a few of the tithing scriptures.

The Christian Church is adopted into Abraham through Jesus Christ. Abraham tithed to Melchizadek.

[color=993300]LVB Genesis 14: 14. When Abram learned that Lot had been captured, he called together the men born into his household, 318 of them in all, and chased after the retiring army as far as Dan....
18. and Melchizedek, the king of Salem (Jerusalem), who was a priest of the God of Highest Heaven, brought him bread and wine.
19. Then Melchizedek blessed Abram with this blessing: ``The blessing of the supreme God, Creator of heaven and earth, be upon you, Abram; and blessed be God, who has delivered your enemies over to you.'' [b]Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the loot. (I used this version due to the complex statements not fully explained in the KJV)[/b]

Genesis 18:18. Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19. For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
[/color]

Skipping over all the Levitical passages, that are to do only with the Levites, I will jump all the way to Malichi.

Take heed you read it all, for it has to do with Christ.

[color=993300]Malachi 3

1. [b]Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.[/b]
2. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3. And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.
4. Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
5. And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the Lord of hosts.
6. For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7. Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
8. Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, [b]and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.
12. And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the Lord of hosts.[/b]
13. Your words have been stout against me, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, What have we spoken so much against thee?
14. Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the Lord of hosts?
15. And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.
16. Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.
17. [b]And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.[/b]
18. Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.[/color]

Then we jump to the New Testament, and what Jesus said.

[color=993300]Matthew 23: 1. Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2. Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3. All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not...

....23. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! [b]for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.[/b][/color]

So, you want to be grafted into the house of Abraham, but you will not pay the tithe? And you want that Christ should come, and that you should be blessed, and will not pay the tithe, though it offers a special blessing, and even God is willing to be tried of you? And you want the laws kept in fullness, but be exempt by Grace?

I am not saying give to the churches. I don't myself. I give to those whom Christ said would be to our benefit, to the hungry, to the thirsty, to the stranger, to the orphans, to the naked, to the sick, to the prisoners, and the teachers and evangelists to gain souls for the kingdom, as Paul recommended.

[color=993300]Matthew 25:34. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36. Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38. When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39. Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40. And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43. I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.[/color]

[color=993300]1 Corinthians 16: 1. Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
3. And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.
4. And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.
5. Now I will come unto you, when I shall pass through Macedonia: for I do pass through Macedonia.
6. And it may be that I will abide, yea, and winter with you, that ye may bring me on my journey whithersoever I go.
7. For I will not see you now by the way; but I trust to tarry a while with you, if the Lord permit.

2 Corinthinians 9: 6. [i][b]But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9. (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
10. Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)
11. Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
12. For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;[/i][/b][/color]

I would call you fools, but it is forbidden me. You mean you actually want to live without the blessing of the tithe?

You are all so relieved at agreeing with each other. You say, we are not Jews, we don't have to follow the Law. Really? What are the Ten Commandments, then?

No one starts by giving the full tenth, unless they are raised in that custom. I was not. I simply started out giving $25.00 a month to one ministry I admired that took care of the sick, the hungry, the homeless, those in prison, and so forth. Then, bit by bit, as the Holy Spirit gave me a nudge. I gave a bit more here, and a bit more there. It didn't seem hard to find an extra $5.00 a month, when I had so much.

Never one teacher or one ministry has ever received the whole of my tithe and my offerings, though the Holy Spirit, over the last 9 years, has nudged me over the 10% mark.

Has my income gone up? I'm on Social Security Disability! The cost of living increase doesn't cover the cost of living. Yet, the bills get paid, and somehow, some way, what's left over the tithe always stretches. And, yes, after the 1st of April, it will have to stretch further, for S.I. needs a little of what I've got too.

You think that because tithes weren't mentioned in the New Testament that the majority of Messianic Jews weren't paying them? Paul was a Levite. If anyone could have asked for tithes, He could have, if they weren't already being paid to the Temple.

Christianity is Judaism perfected. You want Christ, but you forget He was a Jew of the House of David. And before He started that 3 and a 1/2 year journey to Calvary to save our souls, He paid tithes too.

In Christ,

My only thoughts on this are, if we are a part of a local church, members, we need to understand that we are the ones who want a local church. We therefore should shoulder our responsibility to pay the rent, electric, gas, printing, etc. You can call it a tithe, or offering, or love gift or whatever. However the great money fairy doesn't foot the bills, it is left to the faithful.

If we want facilities, we need to pay for them, otherwise we can meet in a field, it seems someone did that before.

hi unique rev.,you paint aa certain picture that I am familliar with.Even though it appears to me to be totally unscriptural for the tithe to carry on into the NEW COVENENT,I still think it serves a purpose in the luke warm times we are facing.Two big areas of scripture;1/ where the saints laid ALL at the apostles feet[not 10%]and 2/ all those people in line ahead of the widow apparently were"DOING THEIR PART" paying a tithe,But Jesus blessed the one that gave it all. This is where "tithing" takes a nose dive.We really have to watch-out for anything that leads to an extra gospel.For example: you will have to look real hard to find a "tithe preaching church" that DOESNT abuse Gods people.They would have you believe {according to Malachi] if you dont tithe you are cursed.People are afraid not to tithe.They manipulate and beat up Gods people week after week with a half-truth.I would like to tell Gods people YOU ARE NOT CURSED! JESUS TOOK CARE OF THAT ON THE CROSS!My bible says an undeserved curse cannot find rest.After reading and studying the tithe there is no way in my mind it differs from circumcision or keeping of the sabboth[saturday] not sunday.The tithe serves those who preach it. People that study their bibles are not so gullable.I believe the tithe doctrine is partly responsible for the condition of todays church.Why isnt circumcision emphacised?Or keeping the sabboth? Because all this is old covenant,they served a purpose IN THEIR TIME,NOT TODAY! I know poeple need to give ,but teach them correctly.The tithe is used to curse Gods people. They need to know they are not cursed.Where does this lead us? If some witch doctor or satanist curses you, will you tell him "hey I paid my tithe you cant get me" This is rediculous but I dont see the difference in that, and then pastors putting an actual curse on Gods people.The tithe preaching is taylor fitted to the luke warm church.They cannot recieve truth. Well how do you know?Give them truth anyway! tell them ALL their money is Gods.Not 10%.But dont give Gods people curse preaching and a false sense of freedom thinking they "bought thier weekly blessing". Indulgences Anyone? .......David

A little prospective on tithing, isn't it strange that back in the early days say the 50's were the most expensive Church in America may have cost $25,000 to build "just a guess" and the average Pastors salary may have been $8,000 a year "another guess" and no one ever had a problem with tithing? and now days there are Church houses out there worth multi-millions and the Pastors salaries are in the millions I wonder why folks have an attitude about tithing.

I say when you Pastors bring your levels down to your average congregation member were you can preach sermons and be able to relate to those sermons your preaching, you probably will have a more respectable congregation for all that is done within the Church walls.

You know what is really strange if these million dollar Pastors tithed there 10% of what they make they number one would probably never need any more money to keep the church going that would be sufficient. How one can stand up there and continue to preach tithing and making us feel guilty when there making the kind of money they make is ludicrous.

I call on "all" pastors of America to bring themselves down to the level of there averaged congregation member and when you get a good feeling of how it might feel to barely meet your bill's each month I bet your tithing sermons will be less. The Church in America is literally falling in "all ways" in reference to what Jesus saw in the Church and it's sad for all of us and until the Church is brought to it's knees and humble themselves in the face of God, the Church of today will continue to fall you mark my word.

And all of you Pastors that are not being a good Stewart of "GODS" money and continue to justify your actions please don't try and ever justify them to me, go and justify them to God and hopefully you might feel some conviction to were you will begin to help start to turn around the Church as a whole in America.

I also think you could also pin another name on most Pastors in America and that name is
"Justifier" that fits most as much as Pastor.

Hello john1140,
Here is how our little congregation handles
giving. From a previous thread:
Some Questions To Those Who Would Leave The Sheep Without A Shepherd.
-------------------------------------------------
Re: What would you suggest the hireling is?
Hi Rich,
The hireling would be the type you refered to,
one who would lord over and are greedy for size and money. We have all heard it said "power corrupts, and absolute power absolutly corrupts".
A hireling is on a power trip, he loves to receive glory and praise, and his main purpose for doing what he does is to receive financial reward and the praises of man. Big is beautiful,
knowing the sheep means nothing to them other than the ones who can do something for his cause.
He will teach what the well to do want to hear,
and his attention will most often abide with them. He will keep the ones who feather his nest
happy. Thus saith the Lord is avoided when it will cost gain. Since the majority of the sheep mean nothing to him, he will flee when they need him most. Its only a job to him, not a calling.
If he ever was called, he long ago strayed from
it.

The tithe: It would be best to cover this in another thread.
I can share how we do things. Giving is taught,
Old and New Testament. We stress 2 Cor. 9. We do not receive an offering, we have an offering box
in the church and each one gives as the Lord purposes in their heart.
ALL that the Lord supplies goes to the meeting
house, for heat, upkeep, and etc. Our little building, a little white church, built in 1825
seats about 60 with the pews full. We have had around 120 with chairs set around sanctuary and a small overflow room. All other monies go for helping those in community, food, clothing, heat,
medicines, and etc. Also missions, home and elsewhere. No one receives pay for their services.
We believe in the Gifts of ministry and of the Holy Spirit, and they are allowed,taught,and encouraged. Our worship servive is open to the Holy Spirit and His leadings, as much as we can stay out of His way.
During our teachings, everyone is encouraged to participate, a message is often paused to answer
and expound on questions, and sharings. The best time to address something, is when its on a brother or sisters mind.

Hope this answers some of your questions, all you need do is ask.

All for His Glory and Praise,

pastorfrin
-------------------------------------------------

This by no means is the only way, but is how we
as part of the body of Christ deal with it.

In His Love

pastorfrin

You have to listen to Carter Conlon's sermon from today! The whole message was preached from Malachi chaper 3. The sermon will be avalible tomorrow night.

God Bless,

Tina

Just on the verse below the writer is saying that all the law is to be kept not just the law on tithing which is correct for that time.The pharisees should have been keeping all the law not just the monetary ones.It however in no way infers that this was to be carried over into the new dispensation of Grace.The Scripture below is a point about the law,thats all,dosen't prove anything else.
Their is no evidence that John the Baptist the first preacher of the Gospel tithed for instance.In my opinion you can't marry it up with Grace.You are either under the law or you are not,it can't be both.
However I would say that if you tithe all your life in good conscience and for the right reasons without knowing it is not required then god will still reward you for that unselfish act.

[size=x-small][color=0000FF]23. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone[/color][/size]
rgds staff

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14481&forum=36#112783]Tithing[/url]

Another posting with embedded links to prior discussions for those interested.

sscott wrote:
Hi UniqueWebRev,

Do you keep all the levitical law or do you just pick and chose the tithe to keep? Just curious.

~sscott

If anyone would like to read a FREE book on money and Christians check out http://shepherdserve.org/

At the bottom right is a book you can read a book called "Through the Needles Eye".

Dear Sscott,

I don't keep the Levitical law - wrong covenant.

I keep the Noahic Covenant plus the Tithe from Abraham plus the two laws Christ summed up all the Levitical Laws with:

Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and spirt, and your brother as yourself.

That basically comes out to the Ten Commandments, the Tithe, the offerings, and Loving God and my Brother. I also bless Israel to the extent I can through my offerings, that I might be blessed.

So far, God seems to be pleased, though by no means do I do any of the above in perfection. I am too good a sinner, with a lot of practice at it. But that is what I aim for.

And since I belong to no church, but have a small house church, I give all of my Tithe and Offerings to the poor, sick, hungry, imprisoned, thirsty, homeless, and to Israel's Orphans.

And since my church is my house and the internet site cost minimal, as is the site, I carry the cost, and ask for nothing from others.

Praise be to God, I am following the Holy Spirit as I hear Him, and God is not altogether displeased with me. On the other hand, He's not entirely pleased with me either.

Jesus closes the gap.

Blessings,

Forrest