Rebuking a brother

I've been working at my job for about 5 months now. Everyone knows that I love Jesus and strive to live a holy life.

There is another 'brother' in the Lord that says he is a bible-believing Christian, yet lives like hell. Basically, he seems to have the 'easy believeism' faith. (Pray once and your good).

Yesterday at work, 'I couldn't take it anymore', and called him out. I've done it privately before but now, it was taken a step further.

Today I brought to him numerous Scriptures of being hypocritcal and how Christ calls us to repent. He has rejected it completely.

A catholic and muslim were witness of this and said to me, "Joshua, your not in the wrong. Everything you said was correct. Hold fast."

I've continually checked my motives on rebuking this 'brother' in the Lord because I don't want to act out of pride.

I spoke to him today, giving him a week to repent and if he doesn't, I will speak with my pastor and his, so that we can take the biblical steps, that are nessecary.

This all stems from the scripture.

Matthew 18:15-17
15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.

16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.

17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

I'm about to take the final step in this Scripture. "Tell it to the church." I'm afraid that his pastor won't follow the biblical command. "Let him be to you as a Gentile." because his pastor is the one feeding him the 'easy believeism' and I don't (but will, if needed) want to speak to the 'higher-ups' in his denomination and take it a step further.

I've been praying for his repentance but he keeps saying, "I already repented." And I keep leading him to, "Take up your cross DAILY." He thinks 'sorry' is enough, but my friends, we all should know that 'sorry' doesn't cut it in the Kingdom of God.

I love this guy. He has the potential to do great things for God but honestly, he has become 'stiff-necked'.

I ask for your prayers. For him (to repent). For me (humility, wisdom, discernment, the right words to say, to be God-honoring in all of this).

Thanks. 8-)

You are in my prayers. Stand firm for God and show Him that you are doing this out of love.

In a nation in which some 80% of the people to some degree or another claim Christianity I would have to ask where this would all end? It is not hard to look around and see folk stumbling and sinning and still claiming Christ to some degree.

If I called out just 25% of the stuff I see and hear my life would be almost a continuous rebuke to someone. But I think we need to be careful that we don't get confused and somehow thing 'we' are the Holy Spirit. You cannot micromanage another person's salvation. They have to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling. To constantly be calling a person down can be quite counter productive. If God puts it on you - by all means - do it. But I would make sure it was God speaking and not me. There is a whole reaping process in all this. I can vouch for that fact from experience. ;-) Sometimes you just have to let God deal with people.

The bible says to overlook an offense sometimes.

This case, is not time to 'overlook' it. I've done that for far too long.

Richard said

If God puts it on you - by all means - do it.

He has, and by all means, I am.

It's disgusting.

So that you all aren't left in the 'dark' about this man's sins, let me fill you in.

Fornication, and proud of it.
Greed and the love of money like I've never seen before.
When referring to God's work, the first words out of his mouth are sexually connotated.
Cursing left and right.
Wastes time at work.
Cuts down others.
Points out others sin, only to gain for himself.
Probably the most volgure 'Christian' I've ever met in my life. *(I've seen many 'bad' ones. He by far takes the 'prize')*
I think (not 100% sure) he hits his kid as well.

This man thinks his actions will have no consequences, God is clear on all of this and this man is too stiff-necked to see it.

Love, gentleness, yes. But when this man is profaning the house and work of God. I think there is a time for rebuke.

Honestly, from my convictions. I'm surprised this man hasn't dropped dead by the blasphemies he has committed. *You couldn't dream up the stuff he says.* I say this with all the love in the world for this man but honestly his 'sin' isn't light nor few.

Yet, in all of this, he still says, "I believe in God." Sorry brethren. The devil believes in God too. And untop of that, a DEMON was the first one recorded in Scripture to say that Jesus was the Son of God, during his ministry. *Look in the beginning of the book of Mark*

Love, grace, yes. That's the kingdom. But also holiness and sometimes, yes sometimes, God uses fellow Christians to rebuke and chastise.

God moves, sometimes through people. Don't forget that.

Brother, don't forget ... gossip.

Vengeance is the Lord's brother.... vengeance is the Lord's. I hope that you're not deceiving yourself friend. God's ways are higher than our's. Leave room for God's will to be done and God's wrath to be carried out howsoever He sees fit. These are things you probably already know.
Many times with me, I have found out that even when I'm "in the right"- this should not be the point at all.... that I just justify my flesh, abandoning the cross for the gospel's sake, deceiving myself.
Sin crouches at the door and desires to have us.

An undeserving brother,
richie

Hi everyone.

Given the nature of these forums and how easy it is to be misunderstood, or to be inadaquate in our expressions I'm afraid to express my thoughts here.

But I would like to share a passage from the wisdom of Proverbs, where it says:

[i]Open rebuke is better than secret love[/i] and [i]Faithful are the wounds of a friend...[/i]

Lovegrace, may God strengthen and uphold you in every right way for His name's sake and give you wisdom and grace, to do or to not, to say, or to withold.

Chris

LoveGrace,

From what you have said overall in this thread, if this man claims to be your brother in Christ, and has announced he is a Christian to others, yet his walk is completely inconsistent for a Christian, I fear that you must continue through the Biblical process.

If the Pastor will not hear you, it may because your witnesses are not of his church. To him, the second, full rebuke may first need to be administered by the elders of the church, perhaps including himself. After all, if you cannot bring your witnesses with you to the Pastor, he may consider the process incomplete.

Without this, there will be no support for your position that the blatant sinner be outcast, for all of us sin daily, and the Pastor may believe that the blatant sinner is repenting appropriately.

Before you ask that the man be treated as an outcast, you may wish to ask one or two older men of your church who will take your word as to the man's conduct go with you to speak to the blatant sinner. If then that man will not repent, you have the appropriate backup to request that the man be isolated from the remainder of the brethren until he repents.

You must sometimes be over-cautious in this process, because the Pastor will be reluctant to take such an uncomfortable stand, unless there is pressure from others in the church.

Remember that fruit must result from repentence. If the blatant sinner says he has repented, but continues to repeat the sin, you must bring this to the attention of the other witnesses, and the Pastor. Even if the Pastor is teaching that repentence is all that is needed, repeating the sin prevents the fruits of repentence, and indicates a lack of any true repentence.

You must be careful to avoid any appearance of criticism of the Pastor in this entire process. For repentence, turning from sin, and walking in the right road, is all that is needed. Your Pastor may be thinking everyone must know this as he preaches, and also assume that everyone knows that the sin must not be repeated, simply because you can tell God you are sorry about it.

Walk carefully in this, brother, that it end up not rebounding on you because of the 'official' steps not having been taken.

I will pray for you in this time of distress, that you be strong in your resolve that you may recover a brother from sin.

Blessings,

Thanks ChrisJD, another great scripture. That is how I feel, "Open rebuke is better than secret love and Faithful are the wounds of a friend..."

Hmm, I did forget that 'one' Mike. Thanks..., I guess. *(I'm not trying to expose every sin in this man's life, that's God's job. But instead follow the biblical actions to another brother's sin)* I say this because we all have sin and if we just 'revealed' all of our sins all the time, it would be discouraging and condemning and not the Spirit of Christ. Thanks though.

Wow, thank you very much Brother Anderson. I will hopefully walk carefully in this, by His grace.

Hi, Lovegrace, I am looking over your list of signs and symptoms and trying to imagine what I would do (of course not having the entire picture). It looks like something out of my league - at least as far as trying to make the person change. In fact, I suspect that doing so would be counterproductive – especially when an ultimatum is added. That seems like power-posturing on your part. Besides, no one can change in a week – even if they were given a specific list. The best you can get him to do is to act more Christian in front of you, but behind your back, he is the same sinner. I don’t think that is what you wish. That's not to say that you can't ask him to refrain from using profanity in your presence.

First, he must want to change and have a reason to change. Second, he needs very specific guidance. And unless he views you as an elder in his life, you may not be the one to fit that role.

You have listed some general symptoms that indicate that he is not walking with God. But stating generalities aren’t helpful. Is there something specific that can be addressed – like a violation of a work-related rule? In that case, you may need to speak to your employer. However, since you have only been on the job for 5 months, you may not be in the best position to do so. This, obviously isn’t a new problem to the rest there, and they likely have already decided how they want to handle it (or not).

You already indicated that this may be a church problem that goes bigger than this man. In fact, it may have a far broader scope than you can see.

I would be most concerned about his children – as they the vulnerable ones. If abuse is indeed the concern, you might pray for this hidden thing to become obvious in order that the case can be reported (which pastors must do by law, here in Canada, anyway.) Certainly the application of civil law may be needed in order to prevent more serious offences, and also get him thinking about his actions.

honestly his 'sin' isn't light nor few.

Obviously, he needs to know the mercy and redemption of the Lord - just as much as any lost person. The path requires a work of God, who also works through other people.

Keep praying brother (or sister), God has put him on your heart for a reason. But that reason may involve you in a different way than you expect.

Diane

I say unless we are willing to give up meals and hours for prayer and fasting for the brother , then we have no right to rebuke them. its easy to rebuke or reprove someone , but its not so easy to lay down your life for anothers in love and humility. walking them through every step of the way.

Now that I’ve thought about this a bit, I must admit, I would write a different response. (that's typical for me)

From personal experience, I’ve noticed that usually when I go to God with a concern about a sinner he directs me into a completely different path. He may teach me something about myself; or about his ways with mankind, or he could be giving me a burden that reaches beyond that particular person or incident. He always helps me learn more about him and his word through it. Rarely does he leave my eyes focused on that person that I’m concerned about. God never seems to give me that person as a project - to change, that is. Basically, my role and calling is to live the witness of Christ.

Lovegrace, I’m sure that you are sensitive to any of those possibilities, and doubtlessly God will reward your prayers.

The Bible is full of practical advice regarding our inter-human relationships, such as this:

“… in humility consider others better than yourself.
Each person should look not only to his own interests
but also to the interests of others.” Phil. 2:3,4

What happens when we try to learn about the interests of others?

Diane

Branded4him wrote:
I say unless we are willing to give up meals and hours for prayer and fasting for the brother , then we have no right to rebuke them. its easy to rebuke or reprove someone , but its not so easy to lay down your life for anothers in love and humility. walking them through every step of the way.

I totally agree brother.

What happens when we try to learn about the interests of others?

We become like Christ.