Brothers and Sisters,
Last Sunday at church the topic of a pre-adamic civilization came up in conversation. My pastor says that he beleives there was a civilization before Adam was created- I do not, and in my opinion, it is an affront to who God is and His word. I would like to know what some of you think becasue I am not well versed or studied in this area. :-?
If it's not in the bible (edit: and discernable through the senses or by scientific method) it's purely conjecture... that isn't to say that God couldn't have created amazing and numerous things that we cannot even comprehend -because he probably has.
Are humans the only life in the universe, we may not know, but we do know that we are the apple of His eye! There are a lot of things that if we don't base on any scripture there is no reason to speculate about them at all, except to try to fathom how amazing our God is!
Honestly, you answer me this, what real relevence does this topic have on your spiritual life today? Would an answer either way impact the way that you walk with Jesus? Would you be more urgent in reaching others with the gospel if you knew there was a civilization before Adam or aliens in outerspace?
I hope you see that these are all not worthy of our most holy calling, to be the salt and the light, to be his ambassadors. Ambassadors deal with international problems involving nations, laws and PEOPLE. When our focus is off of scripture, our focus is off of Jesus and our focus is off of others.
iansmith,
thank you for responding. Honestly, the issue here is not whether I would be more apt to go out an tell people about Christ if I knew for certain there was a pre adamic civilization, what sense would that make? The speculation has more to do with whether or not I am under the leadership of a false teacher and the potential dangers therein.
I would like to point out that God has destroyed at least two civilizations and left nothing of them standing. When he destroyed Babel he did it with fire and with confusion of language. When he destroyed Noah's generation he destroyed their world with a flood.
Now in Babel, it was said that they had built a tower to the heavens and were proud of their achievements... whats to say that the city that they build wasn't technologically advanced like our own. We will never know, God destroyed it and scattered its people. But we have myths of places like Atlantis that sound strikingly similar to Babel.
Then God destroyed an entire civilization and only spared Noah and his sons... yet Noah was technologically and industrially superior to many in our current generation. Even though his ark was made out of wood, it would have required engineering prowless that very few rival today. It's one thing to build a boat, but to build a boat that big that didn't collapse under it's own weight -you might as well be building a sky scraper. Now what strikes me is that if someone was building a sky scraper in their back yard people would notice... even if they didn't believe in Noah's God they would have been awed by the work he was doing -unless they built amazing structures as well, then they could be blissfully ignorant of it's importance.
Now this is all conjecture, and it's fun to think about but definitely not scriptural or theological and shouldn't be preached in church as fact. These are the thoughts of a young man with a big imagination =p
john1140,
CS Lewis had a great imagination and was able to intigrate his fantasy worlds with theology and teach generations of children through these analogies in his literature. There's nothing inherently wrong with speculating or having a big imagination... part of having a big imagination is realizing that anything that we can imagine: God is bigger!
Now you are afraid you're under a false teacher... I would encourage you to have him back up his theory with scripture and with other Christian teaching. If there isn't any evidence in the Scripture or in bible teaching church history, then he should at least preface his comments as speculation or personal imagination.
CS Lewis certainly didn't attempt to pass of his Narnia books as Christian Doctrine even though they contained clear elements of Christian teaching, they were novels for enjoyment and the encouragement of imagination. We need to be sure to distinguish between what we THINK about God and what we can KNOW about God through the Scripture and his son Jesus.
Thanks iansmith,
This response is much more helpful
I know all about having a big imagination...but when it comes to my spiritual development, I do not mess around. I'm sure you can understand that. It's too dangerous and you run the risk of jacking God's people up. So, while this issue may not be a big deal to you or others, it is to me- because I do not want to be in error. It is not something that I worry about because I check everything against the word. I love and serve God first.
I just thought of how your Pastor might be thinking.
Genesis 1:26-28
But Adam is not specifically mentioned until Genesis 2:19 and in fact the whole creation of man is re-emphasized in Genesis 2:726 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Now it would be a serious mistake to assume that the men and women that God created in Genesis 1 are different than Adam in Genesis 2.
In Genesis 1, the emphasis is on God's entire creation, Genesis 2 is devoted to the creation of man. Like a textbook, the first chapter sums up all of the chapters of creation briefly, then a later chapter will explain the details of each in a more complete way.
Instead of seeing Genesis 1 as a summary and seeing Genesis 2 as a deeper description of the same event, your Pastor has fallen into the error of thinking that they are two separate events. This is error and is not in line with the orthodox understanding of scripture -or with logical literary understanding of the bible.
John, unless he is referring to angels in heaven the bible gives no indication that there was a Pre-Adamic civilization. Your pastor taking much liberty and reading past scripture.
I've heard that devils are actually the spirits of the men and women of this "pre-adamic" destroyed civilization. I read it in a Derek Prince book. Prince was not saying that he believed this theory; it's just one of the many extrabiblical conjectures that try to make heads or tails of who or what demons are.
The Mormons believe in a pre-existance, maybe it came from them.
iansmith said
Now it would be a serious mistake to assume that the men and women that God created in Genesis 1 are different than Adam in Genesis 2.
But consider the Adam in Genesis 5:2
"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day they were created."
Genesis 4:16
"And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden."
And Genesis 6:1-2
"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."
Some people think "sons of God" means fallen angels; some think "sons of God" were mortals especially beloved of God and seperated to Him.
But the second view would seem to support the claim that the LORD has always kept certain specimens of the race of men seperate for His divine purpose. Which explains His anger at their intermingling of the "sons of God" with the "daughters of men (Cain?)"... like His anger at Abraham mating with Hagar... or His anger at the Jews for taking Gentile wives (Ezra)...
Thoughts?
Hi there!
I heard a theory about this, based on the fact that Genesis 1 doesn't describe the actual creation of the earth, as an object, only says it was formless and empty.
The idea is that life on the earth may have been destroyed once before, as it was in the Flood, but with no survivors. There was nothing left, only the bare, unformed earth, a sort of shapeless blob perhaps, covered by water.
This is pure speculation, as has been said, and I don't think it a very likely interpretation. But its possible I suppose...
Like life on other worlds, God would have told us, if we needed to know, but He didn't, so we don't - none of our business!
But, if it worries you, the best thing is to seek the Lord about it. Ask Him for a specific Word to your heart, that will settle this thing for you, once and for all.
Probably He won't settle the business by giving you a yes or no answer to your question, but He WILL give the answer you [i]need
It sounds like your pastor is (maybe not deliberately) sowing confusion among his congregation with these ideas.
Perhaps you should pray about finding another church?
Bless you as you seek His Face
Jeannette
It's good to be concerned if you sitting under a Minister that might be teaching false doctrine. Whether he believes that there was a pre adamic race shouldn't really alarm you in that regard.
What you should be more concerned is the foundation in which your Pastor rests his faith.
Men who minister on a: Pre Adamic Race, where Cain got his wife, a gap between Chapter 1 and 2 of Genesis, and who dwell far more time on what the anti christ is doing in the world have lost sight of what they were called to do and that is "Preach Christ and Him crucified".
Yes there is a curiousness regarding these issues, but all they are geared to do is to draw our attention off of Christ and get our minds on things that won't amount to a hill of beans.
I would encourage you to pray for your Pastor that he get on topics that will be food for your souls.
might want to check out Ken Hams web site answers in genesis.org or Dr.Dino.org ,great info on both web sites. pass them along to your pastor it seems that he good use a good foundation-in Genesis 1-11 :-)
jeff
There is a study bible that has notes in it that are very extensive. Much of the notes are very good and a person can learn a lot of interesting things from reading them. The bible is called a Dake bible. Some call it Dakes mistakes.
Mr Dake apparently believed in a pre-Adamic civilization and gives bible verses to try and prove it. I never accepted this theory and find this idea to be a streach of the scripture. If you find a Dake bible you can check the verses out that a person who believes this idea accepts. I don't remember the verses so I won't comment on that.
Just to add a little and I'm hoping that this won't change the threads discussion on a pre-Adamic civilization. Another theory that is in Dake and is very common is that Enock and Elijah are the two prophets of Revelation and not Moses and Elijah. Remember it was Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration. The miracles that are done are similar to what God used Moses to do. The whole theory is in Dake's bible and the only verse that could have any bearing that he used was where the Word says that it is appointed for man once to die. But, by using this verse you have to think that Lazarus, the child Jesus rose from the dead, the child Elijah rose from the dead didn't die again. These oppinions are a stretch of the Word.
In his hands,
GaryE
Hi John1140, how are you?
Something which has helped me get this all sorted out in my mind is a passage in Mark's Gospel account(chapter 10), where it appears as though the Lord Jesus combines Genesis 1:27 and Genesis 2:24 into one event, where He says
[b][color=660033]But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife [/color]
This speaks strongly to me that the [b]creation[b]deep time[i]from the beginning of the creation
Is this helpfull? Do you have any other questions or concerns?
Grace and peace to you in Messiah Jesus,
Chris
hi, the theory is that God created the heavens and the earth in the beginning, and the earth became without form and void because God does not create something that is without form and void.man was told to replentish the earth,or refill it. the result of rebelion from angels who were cast out of heaven(satan: the prince of the earth amongst them) the rest of the story remains completely the same... a non issue jimp
HI everyone.
Jimp, before I reply to this I want to make sure you know I'm not replying to you. I only want to write about something you mentioned from the theory.
"God does not create something that is without form and void"
How do we know this? How do we know what God would or would not create? What would be inconsistent with His attributes should He decide to make something such as this? And how would we know that without knowing His secret counsel and will in making it?
That said, I am fond of a description I heard once of the creation which [i]likened
Chris
I would agree with a previous post-er, check out the Answers in Genesis website, they have numerous articles that deal with the problems and inconsistencies of gap theory. Here is one of them...
[url=http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v3/i3/gaptheory.asp]Gap Theory
You might ask your pastor to review these articles and offer his rebuttal.
In Christ,
Ron
.john1140, I looked into this a few years ago. It is error.Absolutely! They debated this on the john ankerberg show. Dr, Ken Hovine debated against the pre-adam theory.He kept calling them heretics over and over.One of them got mad and told john ankerberg he would leave the debate if dr hovine would not stop callimg him a heretic.Dr hovine turned to him and said"I dont call you a heretic the word calls you a heretic". They asked dr hovine "what do you mean?" He replied"If you can show me sin before adam then you are a heretic! Get it?.........THIS IS WHERE SUPPOSITION LEADS!Your pastor got DUPED! Weve all been there! Time for pastor to eat humble Pre-Adamic pie.It is definately a LIE! What do you think? was there sin berore Adam?........God bless David
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