Swinging Pendulum | SermonIndex

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Seeking Mar 22, 2004

I was just thinking that before I throw out the Prosperity movement altogether....wouldn't it be wise to consider that there may be something God was trying to tell his church when the Charasmatic Revial of the 1970's and 80's. hit? I've always heard that when God awakens his church to a truth you always see the pendulum swinging to the far right and left before it finds its center. I remember growing up hearing my Grandmother always blaming God for every financial trouble or tragedy. Some people back then didn't seem to think they could ask God for anything for themselves. I remember my Grandmother saying that she never asked God for anything for herself because He was too busy with other important issues.I can remember a lot of people leaving the Denominational Churches and joining the New and fast growing Charasmatic Churches. They were searching for more. As a Babtist I had never heard much about the Holy Spirit and benefits of any kind. In my opinion I don't believe God wants us to go around with a poverty mentality. But, I agree that it has been misused and abused.My prayer is to find balance in Christ and not get to far to the right or left in our beliefs. Just thinking.....

C

crsschk Mar 22, 2004

Well said.Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. It's the abuses. Just this morning flipped on the tube and there was "Prophet Davis" expounding on 'wealth and riches'..."Lord, it's not my phone bill it's Yours!" But, yes, I am with you. We need balance.

D

Delboy Mar 22, 2004

You are are right, seekingthe bible is full of prosperity and prospering this is not a swear word,we need to be full,to overflowing with abundance and rich with the person of Jesus and share in that fellowship of sufferings, in good and bad timesBy the way i hav'nt met a Babtist before!

sermonindex Mar 22, 2004

I've always heard that when God awakens his church to a truth you always see the pendulum swinging to the far right and left before it finds its center.Hi Seeker, Welcome to the site and thanks for th insightful comments. I am so much like you brother, I don't want to throw all this stuff out just because there are bad fruits. Its like cutting down and apple tree just because half the fruit has rotted. The solution is to cut off the rotten fruit and nuture the healthy ones. Another big concept that is floating around in my mind is that wherever God is trying to do something the devil is the most active, personally it makes me sick to see the representations of the Spirit-led live in alot of popular Charismatic churches. But thats what the devil wants! he wants us to be scared away from the supernatural workings of God thinking its all excessive and outrageous. I think on this website there are many speakers that have experienced the deeper things of God and in contrast with the sillyness of today they are a sober realization of how far we have strayed in the name of God. Here is a propechy Smith Wigglesworth gave in 1947:"During the next few decades there will be two distinct moves of the Holy Spirit across the church in Great Britain. The first move will affect every church that is open to receive it and will be characterized by a restoration of the baptism and gifts of the Holy Spirit.The second move of the Holy Spirit will result in people leaving historic churches and planting new churches.In the duration of each of these moves, the people who are involved will say 'This is the great revival'. But the Lord says 'No, neither is this the great revival but both are steps towards it.When the new church phase is on the wane, there will be evidenced in the churches something that has not been seen before: a coming together of those with an emphasis on the Word and those with an emphasis on the Spirit.When the Word and the Spirit come together, there will be the biggest movement of the Holy Spirit that the nation, and indeed the world, has ever seen. It will mark the beginning of a revival that will eclipse anything that has been witnessed within these shores, even the Wesleyan and the Welsh revivals of former years. The outpouring of God's Spirit will flow over from the UK to the mainland of Europe, and from there will begin a missionary move to the ends of the earth."-----I know this one thing that God will raise a people who are of the Word and Spirit and who are a true representation of the body of Christ on earth!

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Gideons Mar 23, 2004

Yes, Wigglesworth was willing to be used by the Lord greatly. There are a number of great books by Him. He wrote one called "Smith Wigglesworth on Spiritual Gifts.There is another book on this melding of the Word and the Spirit by R.T. Kendall and Paul Cain entitled "The Word and the Spirit."I believe that Satan wants the church to see the excesses of the Charismatic movement and negate much of the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit always points to Jesus, not ourselves or to the Holy Spirit himself. Ed

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shazbot Mar 23, 2004

Seeking, you are most definitely correct. Balance is always the aim, but since humans are pushed forward through time, they find it impossible to be rooted in one condition entirely, as time brings change.My thoughts on this issue:God did not call any of us out of our sin so that we could abuse the gifts He bestows on us for our own gain. Anyone who pursues worldly wealth for himself is wrong to do so. But again, money is not the root of all evil, it is the love thereof. Certainly not every member of the body of Christ is called to be a preacher or missionary. There must be a backing, a support. This backing is made of those in the church who supply the money and labor to produce great outreaches for the sake of the gospel. Having a church without this backing would be like having a nation with no agricultural industry- it would fail very quickly. But at the same time, this backing may have the greatest challenge of all the members of the body. They don't contend with disease or death or warring nations like the missionaries, and they don't war against the enemy and lead the armies of God to victory like the preachers. But they have to continually fight the battle for their mind against the desire for the money. They have to practise the self-control to give to God their money even when it hurts. C.S. Lewis, in Mere Christianity, has a chapter on charity, in which he expresses his (and my) philosophy of the matter: If your acts of charity are not prohibiting you from the pursuit of worldly pleasures, you need to give more. If your acts of charity are limiting your livelihood to the point that you cannot adequately feed, clothe, and shelter your family, give less. Because if the world sees you living it up just like a non-Christian, they won't want to be a Christian because you are no different and you are not being salt or light. However, if the world sees you beaten down, starving, and destitute because of your charity, they may admire you, but they will not want to be a Christian because they do not see that God provides for His children, and if He's such a good Father, why wouldn't He even be able to provide for His children?

H

hijode1dios Mar 25, 2004

Seeking said: "I've always heard that when God awakens his church to a truth you always see the pendulum swinging to the far right and left before it finds its center."But, isn't that when the pendulum stops... when it is in the center?Shazbot said: "There must be a backing, a support. This backing is made of those in the church who supply the money and labor to produce great outreaches for the sake of the gospel. Having a church without this backing would be like having a nation with no agricultural industry- it would fail very quickly."I agree with you Shazbot. But,personally...in reference to the whole prosperity gospel...I believe that God's just got His own agenda. I believe He has a plan for all of us. I don't think God is just sitting up there waiting for us to select from His promises, like choosing from a menu, before He does what He's going to do. That would be too reactive, leading to a very fragmented battle plan for any general.Jeremiah (29:11)quoted God as saying that God had a plan for us...thoughts of good and not evil...to give us an expected end. We can choose to fall in line with that will, or we can rebel and resist that will. Of course, if we ask for something that fits God's plan, He gives it. If we ask amiss, He does not. I don't believe you can manipulate God's promises.If you read the conversation/ prayer between Moses and God in Exodus 33:12-23, you notice Moses is unsure if he's getting what he wants, so he's seeking divine reassurance. Of course, God's heart seems to be touched by each of Moses' three requests. He is definitely listening to what Moses has to say. It seems as if God sat down and listened intently, with interest, to what Moses was getting to. But, if I tried that approach to God that Moses used, it would have a very different effect if I threw in a request for a new car at the end, instead of "show me your glory."God is moved by those individuals who share His will...those who give up their own will or plans and take up the cross and follow Him. He is moved by those people who are asking for the glory of His kingdom...much like Moses with His earthly seedling kingdom of Israel.Paul was definitely not a pampered Christian, who manipulated his way with God's wallet. He said he had learned to be content. That's what I need...to learn to be content with what I have. He also said that Godliness with contentment is great gain.Sadly, I have ommitted several Scripture references here tonight. But, I'm sure you know them all and can probably quote them. But, you are right on target with the backing of the ministry.