End of 69th week

Explanation From the going forth of the order to rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the King was 69 weeks of years. 483 years. April 5th 32 AD was the probable date that Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the Colt of an ass and thus ended the 69 weeks. Jesus was crucified 5 days later and the church age began at Pentecost 50 days after that. The Church Age is a period of unknown length after which comes the final week of Daniels 70 weeks. The 70 weeks are for Israel, and Gods plan to bring them back to Himself. The Church is the Parenthesis between the 69th week (Apr 5 32AD and the start of the Tribulation or more accurately the 70th week)
We therefore cannot be part of this when the Church is full we are out of here.

Maranatha.

Wynner01

It's sad that you believe that. Because Daniel is quoting from Jeremiah. (The 70 weeks/years) Then Zechariah states that these '70 years/weeks' are occurring during his time.

Zech. 1:12 (NASB)
12 Then the angel of the LORD said, "O LORD of hosts, how long will You have no compassion for Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, with which You have been indignant [b]these seventy years[/b]?"

The book of Daniel was written in 605 BC - 562 BC.
The book of Jeremiah was written in 586 B.C.
That book [of Zechariah] was written in 520-518 BC.

So, somewhere between 520-518 B.C. these 70 years/weeks were occurring (Zech.1:12,7:5), according to the written Word of God. What year was it when Zech. wrote those two verses? I have no idea. But, I'm willing to give a rough guess. (Using the origin of the dates)

If the '70 years/weeks' started at the writting of Jeremiah. And also, if '70 years/weeks' is literal then look at the work below.

586 - (minus) 70 = (equals) 516 B.C. *(This marks the completion of '70 years/weeks')
So, that would put Zech. around year...66 to 68th year.

But, if the '70 years/weeks' really means 490 years. (This is said by many pre-tribbers, how they get that is....70 times 7. Why? I have no idea, but still [u]could[/u] be possible)

586 - (minus) 490 = (equals) 96 B.C. *(This marks the completion of '70 years/weeks')
So, that would put Zech. around '9th' to '10th' year of these long '70 years'.

So, according to your post (which is the popular belief of 'pre-tribers') says that the 70 years occurs between 32 A.D.- 450 B.C. (or so; give or take 5 years). That goes against what Scripture is stating in Zech. 1:12 & 7:5.

So, my question is:
Why does the '70 years/weeks' start at 450 B.C. instead of earlier about 100 years?

Hi everyone.

Hi Lovegrace,

"Why does the '70 years/weeks' start at 450 B.C. instead of earlier about 100 years"

I think there is a really neat passage from the book of Nehemiah, chapter 2, that looks to be exactly what the angel mentions to Daniel chapter 9, concerning the start of the weeks, where it says

[i]...And it came to pass in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes the king[/i]v1

Nehemiah asked of him...

[i]...that thou wouldest send me unto Judah, unto the city of my fathers' sepulchres, that I may build it.[/i]v5

and also

[i]If it please the king, let letters be given me to the governors beyond the river, that they may convey me over till I come into Judah[/i]v7

which it appears he was granted

[i]...And the king granted me, according to the good hand of my God upon me.[/i]v8

I think it matches very well because it appears that everything concerning these weeks was to commence [i] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem[/i].

And also, maybe you are thinking of the 70 years of captivity mentioned by Jeremiah? This passage in Daniel 9 looks as though it was given by revelation from the angel. What do you think?

Chris

Interesting Chris, I had to do some research to answer this question because many things that I believe about the prophetic books are being developed. (Just like this answer)

These 70 years/weeks started with Jeremiah.

Dan. 9:2 (NASB)

2 in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, observed in the books the number of the years [b]which was revealed as the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet[/b] for the completion of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, [b]seventy years.[/b]

So, Daniel was reading Jeremiah's book and then he repented on behalf of Israel. (Dan. 9:3-19) Then Gabriel helps with the answer/understanding of the '70 years/weeks'. (Dan.9:20-27) *I say '70 years/weeks' because Jeremiah/Daniel/Zechriah say 'years' but then Gabriel says 'weeks'*

So, the root of where these '70 years/weeks' was Jeremiah 24:11,29:10. Then Daniel and Zechariah speak of it as well. (Dan. 9:2,9:24; Zech. 1:12,7:5) Surprisingly, it's also written in 2 Chron. 36:21-22.

Now, to answer your other question. Was the 70 years fulfilled in the Book of Nehemiah?

I'm not sure, but [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_Seventy_Weeks#The_Scriptural_.22Artaxerxes.22]This link believes so[/url]

Hmm, maybe. Here is a quote from that link.

From the destruction of Jerusalem in the 19th year of Nebuchadnezzar until the Temple was fully rebuilt in the sixth year of Darius I(Hystaspes), producing a time frame of 586-516 BC or 70 years. (Jer. 52;12-14; Ezra 6:15)

Sounds accurate to me. But where does the 'Messiah' part come in? And the 'cutting off' part? And the division of the years, 7, 62 then one final year. What does history say about those?

These are questions, I'm now asking if this is true. Which, to me, seems to be. 8-)

Hi again Lovegrace :-)

"Was the 70 years fulfilled in the Book of Nehemiah?"

Well, actually I was suggesting that this passage in Nehemiah gives us the [b]staring[/b] point for these weeks.

Remember, the angel told Daniel that...

"...[u][b]from[/b] the going forth[/u] of the [b]commandment[/b] [u]to restore and to [b]build[/b] Jerusalem[/u] unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

So I'm seeing a distinction here, between what Jeremiah foretold, the 70 years captivity, which had been or was now ending, and this which the angel was revealing to Daniel, these 70 weeks. And I see these elements, the commandment or decree to rebulid the city and so forth in the passage in Nehemiah. Something else to consider here, that a week is a unit of 7 and these weeks then could at least be considered as 70 units of 7, whether you take them to be years or not. This is how it is understood then to be 490 years.

Hope this is more clear as to what I was thinking of in making refrence to the passage in Nehemiah. Hope i'm not making this more confusing. Let me know :-)

Chris

How can you say that Nehemiah is the 'starting point', when it clearly shows in Zech. that the 70 years are occuring.

Then Compliments, you state that 70 years are 70 weeks. I disagree because in Zech. it states that it is 70 years. Which Zech. was written AFTER Daniel.

Gen.29 isn't a valid defense for '70 times 7', in maintaining the balance of scripture. Something you learn about hermeneutics is that 'scripture cannot say what it doesn't say'. Gen. 29 [b]doesn't[/b] say that one year means seven. But instead Jacob wanted to serve one year for Leah and seven for Rachel because he loved Rachel more (vs.30).

The scripture in Gen.29 doesn't say, "One year means seven." It shows that Jacob served 8 years for two women. Let's not go outside of what the scripture says.

Nonetheless, both of you brought up a good point about the 70 years being the captivity of babylon.

Did the temple that Nehemiah restored stop their captivity, if so then that points to the fulfillment is within scripture?

Daniel 9
Daniel's Prayer for His People
1In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, by descent a Mede, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans-- 2in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years that, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

Lovegrace, Daniel read in Jeremiah the following:
Jeremiah 25:11-13
"This whole land shall become a ruin and a waste, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. Then after seventy years are completed, I will punish the king of Babylon and that nation, the land of the Chaldeans, for their iniquity, declares the LORD, making the land an everlasting waste. I will bring upon that land all the words that I have uttered against it, everything written in this book, which Jeremiah prophesied against all the nations."

Daniel seeing that the seventy years of Captivity was to end soon confessed to the Lord the sin of Israel. The Lord sent His angel Gabriel to tell Daniel about the future and the coming of the Messiah. Daniel is told about 70 periods of seven years in the future not about the 70 years of captivity.

You are confusing the 70 years of Jewish captivity with the 70 sevens from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem.

JaySaved,

I've posted already a majority of what you said.

But, '70 sevens' doesn't line up with scripture, as far as I've seen.

Also, even IF, '70 sevens' were true it doesn't like up with the time frame. (For example, it would off about 100 years.)

From the prophesy given in Jeremiah it would take 586 years, not 483.(Which is what some say.) There are 103 years UNACCOUNTED for, if '70 sevens' are true.

But yet, 70 literal years after Jeremiah spoke, Nehemiah rebuilt the temple. If that's not a fulfillment, then I think something is wrong.

I don't see how Daniel and Jeremiah are saying two different things, which seems to be what your saying JaySaved. I believe these 70 years are already fulfilled with the rebuilding of the temple in the book of Nehemiah.

To say that the '70 years' didn't start until Nehemiah is totally forgetting the scripture in Zech., where it shows that the '70 years' are occurring.

When a prophetic word is spoken, it gets fulfilled. It's a heavenly knowledge of the future. We don't have to twist anything to make it 'seem' true like those weird secular people. Jeremiah prophesied that it would be 70 years and in 70 literal years the temple was rebuilt.

If you can show me and solid proof that this is incorrect, by all means, I'll submit.

But when in 586 B.C. Jeremiah prophesies that the babylonan captivity will last 70 years and Daniel say that it also marks the rebuilding of the temple then in 516 B.C. (70 years later) The temple IS rebuild and people are returning to their home land, Israel.

I don't see how that isn't the fulfillment.

wynner01 wrote:
The Church is the Parenthesis between the 69th week (Apr 5 32AD and the start of the Tribulation or more accurately the 70th week)
We therefore cannot be part of this when the Church is full we are out of here.

I believe this is the "Parenthesis" you are talking about.

[b]Romans 11:25[/b] [color=990000]For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, [b]until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.[/b]
[b]26[/b] And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
[b]27[/b] For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
[b]28[/b] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.[/color]

First, let's look at Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Seventy weeks are determined to do the following:
1. Finish the transgression
2. Make an end of sins
3. Make reconciliation for iniquity
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness
5. Seal up vision and prophecy
6. Anoint the most holy.

None of those things were fulfilled when Nehemiah rebuilt the temple.

Also, the prophesy says that from the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem unto Messiah will be 69 “weeks/sevens”. Your interpretation fails to account for the prophesy of Jesus. Jesus did was not born until around 4 B.C. and was not anointed until around 26 A.D. and was not crucified until around 29 A.D. How can you say this prophesy speaks of the rebuilding of the Temple by Nehemiah?

Also, brother please know that your interpretation fails to understand that the word "weeks/sevens" is not the same as the word "years". One speaks of a period of 7 years the other speaks of one year.

Logic, that is not a parenthesis that is a Divine Plan.

JaySaved,

Why just look at one book? Daniel isn't the only book that refers to these 70 years.

Zechariah, Haggai (indirectly), Jeremiah, and also Nehemiah, Ezra, 2 Chron.

How can you say this prophesy speaks of the rebuilding of the Temple by Nehemiah?

Well, because historically it adds up. When your theory (490 years) don't add up with history. Also, if your theory is correct (490 years) then where is the 103 years that are missing? Because these years HAD to be in movement during Zecheriah's time because he said they were already occuring. (His time is 520-518)

Literally 70 years from 586 B.C.(The time of Jeremiah's prophesy) The temple was restored by Nehemiah and the Jewish people.

You said that it fulfills 'none' of these. Well, I challenge you to think of it the opposite way. It fulfills ALL of them. Ezra chapter 1 talks of the INGATHERING or RESTORATION of the Jews back to their own country. The rest, I'm still looking into.

I will again post the truth about the '70 weeks/years'.

70 years was spoken of by Jeremiah, Daniel, and Zechariah. In that order. The only one to ever refer to these 'years' as 'weeks' was Garbriel. And HELLO, it's an ANGEL! Angels don't die. They look at time differenly than us. One year to us, would be something minimal like a week to them!!

Also, 'the year of the Lord' has been since A.D.29 or so. Thats almost 2000 years. 2000 years = one year? Yes, to the Lord.

Those with longer life-spans look at time differently. Another simple comparision is that, young people hate waiting 20 minutes because its 'forever'. But older people say 20 minutes goes by 'too quick'. It's the perception of the person.

Longer life-span. Quicker 'time' becomes, in your own perception.

Also, brother please know that your interpretation fails to understand that the word "weeks/sevens" is not the same as the word "years". One speaks of a period of 7 years the other speaks of one year.

Please back this up with Scripture.

Why just look at one book? Daniel isn't the only book that refers to these 70 years. Zechariah, Haggai (indirectly), Jeremiah, and also Nehemiah, Ezra, 2 Chron.

Lovegrace, I am not denying that the Bible predicts 70 years of Babylonian captivity. What I am denying is that the 70 weeks prophesy is a prophesy about the Babylonian captivity.

Jaysaved wrote:
How can you say this prophesy speaks of the rebuilding of the Temple by Nehemiah?

Lovegrace wrote:
Well, because historically it adds up. When your theory (490 years) don't add up with history. Also, if your theory is correct (490 years) then where is the 103 years that are missing? Because these years HAD to be in movement during Zecheriah's time because he said they were already occuring. (His time is 520-518)
Literally 70 years from 586 B.C.(The time of Jeremiah's prophesy) The temple was restored by Nehemiah and the Jewish people.

With the decree to rebuild Jerusalem given in Ezra 7:11-28 around 457 B.C., 483 years later (69 sevens) would bring us around 27 B.C. which is the time when Jesus began His ministry and was anointed by the Holy Spirit. So, we see that this prophesy in Daniel refers to the coming of Jesus—the Messiah.

You said that it fulfills 'none' of these. Well, I challenge you to think of it the opposite way. It fulfills ALL of them. Ezra chapter 1 talks of the INGATHERING or RESTORATION of the Jews back to their own country. The rest, I'm still looking into.
I will again post the truth about the '70 weeks/years'.

Explain to me how Nehemiah building the Temple fulfilled any of these:
1. Finish the transgression
2. Make an end of sins
3. Make reconciliation for iniquity
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness
5. Seal up vision and prophecy
6. Anoint the most holy.
Also, how does the ingathering and restoration of the Jews fulfill any of the above?

70 years was spoken of by Jeremiah, Daniel, and Zechariah. In that order. The only one to ever refer to these 'years' as 'weeks' was Garbriel. And HELLO, it's an ANGEL! Angels don't die. They look at time differenly than us. One year to us, would be something minimal like a week to them!!

I am sorry, I know you are serious, but this is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard. Please pray over this interpretation.

Also, 'the year of the Lord' has been since A.D.29 or so. Thats almost 2000 years. 2000 years = one year? Yes, to the Lord.
Those with longer life-spans look at time differently. Another simple comparision is that, young people hate waiting 20 minutes because its 'forever'. But older people say 20 minutes goes by 'too quick'. It's the perception of the person.
Longer life-span. Quicker 'time' becomes, in your own perception.

See last comment.

Jaysaved wrote:
Also, brother please know that your interpretation fails to understand that the word "weeks/sevens" is not the same as the word "years". One speaks of a period of 7 years the other speaks of one year.

Lovegrace wrote:

Please back this up with Scripture.

Let’s take Daniel 9:2, “In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.”

Year is Shaneh
Definition
1. year
1. as division of time
2. as measure of time
3. as indication of age
4. a lifetime (of years of life)

Now look at Daniel 9:24, “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.”

Weeks or Sevens is Shabuwa`
Definition
1. seven, period of seven (days or years), heptad, week
1. period of seven days, a week
1. Feast of Weeks
2. heptad, seven (of years)

So you see that the word for ‘years’ and the word for ‘weeks’ are different. Weeks does not mean one year just as one year does not mean a week.

JaySaved wrote:
Logic, that is not a parenthesis that is a Divine Plan.

I think that when the Gentiles "comes to fullness" the parenthesis will close and God will turn His attention back to Israel.

Instead of "parenthesis" I like to call it the "
prophetic Stop Watch"

Instead of "parenthesis" I like to call it the "prophetic Stop Watch"

No! Not the stopwatch! :-)

Whether it is a parenthesis or a stopwatch, my problem with it is that it implies "change of plan".

It also implies that no prophesy occurs during the "church age", but that is not true. Jesus prophesied that Peter would live to be an old man. This was prophesy that was fulfilled during the “church age”. Luke 21:18-19, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdest thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.”

Also, Jesus speaks of the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D. This was fulfilled during the church age.

Paul prophesied in Acts 20:28-30 that false teachers would come into the church after he dies. This was fulfilled during the church age: “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.”

In Matthew 24:14 Jesus prophesies that the gospel will be preached in all the world and then the end will come, “And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”

So we see that there is no parenthesis in prophesy and there is no stopping of prophesy during the church age. God’s “prophetic stop watch” is still ticking.

JaySaved wrote:
So we see that there is no parenthesis in prophesy and there is no stopping of prophesy during the church age. God’s “prophetic stop watch” is still ticking.

I have a question then, explain how Daniel 9:27 has passed?

What covenant did he confirm with the many?

Hi,
In Daniel 9.24 the 70wks are for the Jews alone and the holy City is Jerusalem.No mention of anyone else.One view would have a gap between 69 and 70 lasting almost 2000yrs and one would have it run straight through,no stops.The problem with running straight is that you can only get 69 and a half wks Counting Jesus ministry period.That leaves 3 and half yrs or a half a wk to make up which is not mentioned in scripture or clearly marked out which it would have to be to make that any way valid.
Even if that were correct and we took into account Jewish midrash that view of the 70th wk may only be A fulfillment with a future ultimate fulfillment to come in the End.So their is a possibility both views are correct.But I would be interested to see what scripture you qoute for the 3 and a half years after Christs Crucifixtion.

Dan 9:24\t¶\tSeventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Rgds Staff

Hi again everyone.

Lovegrace,

"Why just look at one book? Daniel isn't the only book that refers to these 70 years."

I can understand that. Have found it usefull so often to compare scripture with scripture too.

In this case though, maybe there is something else in view here in this passage of Daniel and it might be helpfull to consider the passage in isolation [b]first[/b]...even apart from some of the other views you may have, and then go through the scripture to see what other portions line up with it, sort of like where Isaiah said...

[i]For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little[/i]

Am thinking here maybe start with verse 24, considering some of the things that the angel says are to be brought about in connection with these 70 weeks...

for instance [i]...to make an end of sins[/i]

And then see what would match up in the rest of scripture.

Just some suggestions. In any case I wish you well.

Chris

What covenant did he confirm with the many?

Jeremiah 31:31-32, "Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD."

Luke 22:19-21, "And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me." And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. But behold, the hand of him who betrays me is with me on the table."

Hebrews 8:8, "For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord,when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,"

Hebrews 8:13, "In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."

Hebrews 9:15, "Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant."

Hebrews 12:24, "and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel."

Edit:
The covenant was to the Jews for the 70th week. Remember that Jesus ministry was a limited/selective ministry during His time on Earth. For example:
Matthew 10:5-7,
"These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And proclaim as you go, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Matthew 15:22-24,
"And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, "Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon." But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, "Send her away, for she is crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Jesus did heal non-Jews, but His ministry was focused on the Jews. During this 70th week, Jesus was "cut off" and then the gospel message was taken to the Gentiles.

What I find so impressive is Jesus' words in Luke 19:41-44, "And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it, saying, "Would that you, even you, had known on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation."

Why did Jesus call this "the time of your visitation"? Because Daniel prophesied that Jesus --the promised Messiah--would be there at this time and the Jewish people did not know it...even though Daniel told them.