tjservant
Apr 6, 2007
Psalm 5:5 (King James Version)
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Does He hate sinners?
Does He love sinners?
What say you guys...and gals
Psalm 5:5 (King James Version)
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Does He hate sinners?
Does He love sinners?
What say you guys...and gals
both?
I have never thought about it like that, but I think that 'both' would be correct.
God so loved the world...tasted death for every man...God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
...but also...
I have hated them that regard lying vanities...The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth...I hate them with perfect hatred
How many times have you heard "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner"?
There are scriptures that say he hates sinners.
Has this been preached wrongly?
Does anyone have any good teachings on this issue they could share?
cover some of this issue, not everything but i think this sermon is a great one about Gods wrath and anger and hatred for sin and sinners.
hi, the real question is do YOU love sinners?jimp
I have to agree with the reply both.
If a sinner is unrepentant, they are treasuring up for themselves wrath in the day of wrath, Rom 2v5.
If repentant, like we have repented from our sins, then God adopts us as his children,
Rom 8v14-17.
How is it possible, scripturally, to destroy the sin without destroying the sinner?
The apostle Paul perhaps?
But somehow, I don't see that as valid. Maybe it is, he was as he says himself, the chief of sinners.
God bless.
jimp wrote:
hi, the real question is do YOU love sinners?jimp
Psalms 139:21,22
21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
Did Jesus hate Peter when Peter denied Him? Remember, Peter transgressed the 9th commandment by bearing false witness, claiming he didn't know who Jesus was. Did the Lord hate Him (or love him any less)? Why are so many bent on this "hatred" of God toward sinners; it's almost as if they relish in reminding everyone this, as if they had a personal agenda. There is such a fine line, and one slight shift can find you on the wrong side, grossly misrepresenting God. This is a Biblical concept that has been so twisted and convoluted and man-polluted that it must truly grieve God every time a "hate" scripture is invoked by a tearless pontificator or by a heart that has yet to have a revelation of God's bleeding love for sinners.
I see over and over and over again in scripture how much compassion Jesus had, how gentle and loving and forgiving he was toward adultresses and publicans and thieves. It was the religious hypocrites and the self-righteous who saw themselves right with God and perfect that he had contention with. We really have to be so careful when we deal with the topic of how "God hates sinners" and not be found using it in the wrong spirit.
Hi, tj,
I think that this same topic came up recently in another thread. It certainly is a topic worth considering.
There is a book around called, "When You Hate the Ones you Love". (something like that). That title suggests that it is entirely possible to both love and hate at the same time. In fact, I think you can't have one without the other.
We seem to crave putting concepts into catagories - either/or, but, I fear that in doing that we sever balanced truth, and risk forming partial doctrines, or distorted views of God. That would be my fear of this question.
Consider "judgment" and "mercy". They partner together. Mercy is irrelevent appart from judgmnet; and judgment is mere cruelty apart from mercy.
What also makes your question a challenge is the fact that there is a confused understanding of "love" : It can mean almost anything. I think 'hate' is also a fuzzy word.
I realize that I haven't been much help, but, perhaps the only way to understand God's views of mankind is to study the Bible - without extracting any particular verses - just trying to gain a perception of the wider picture.
O the depths of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!
who has known the mind of the Lord? ..."
Diane
I agree with PaulWest. Here is an article that explains this topic, with scripture references included. http://www.ekklesia4him.net/gospel_according_to_Jesus.html
One of the most important things to remember when reading the Bible is to read the full context. Verses taken out of context lead to all kinds of error.
God bless,
Stella
Why are so many bent on this "hatred" of God toward sinners; it's almost as if they relish in reminding everyone this, as if they had a personal agenda.
Who are you speaking of? I had never heard of God's hatred of sinners until a few weeks ago and have not read about it in any other threads.
I am now only trying to get more of an understanding of the issue.
This is a Biblical concept that has been so twisted and convoluted and man-polluted that it must truly grieve God every time a "hate" scripture is invoked by a tearless pontificator or by a heart that has yet to have a revelation of God's bleeding love for sinners.
It would seem to me that you have ran into many that have abused this "hatred" issue.
I hope you are not lumping me into this category. :-(
I am just trying to learn more about my God.
Do you have anything to say that may help to answer the questions I asked?
Here is an article that explains this topic
I read the article and found nothing in it addressing the scriptures I posted and had questions about.
it must truly grieve God every time a "hate" scripture is invoked by a tearless pontificator or by a heart that has yet to have a revelation of God's bleeding love for sinners.
True, but what has this to do with me and my questions?
How does God feel about it when it is invoked by one that DOES shed many tears and HAS had the revelation of God's bleeding love for sinners?
For this is the category I find myself in.
There are countless things that grieve our Lord, but that is not what I am wanting to talk about here.
I am asking the saints for help in clarifying an issue that is cloudy to me.
Was I wrong to ask this?
True, but what has this to do with me and my questions?
Nothing, brother - this has nothing to do with your question, unfortunately. I apologize for going off on a tangent. I was just musing on the concept of God hating sinners and how it can often be misunderstood and misapplied. Sorry for the confusion, TJ.
I'll try to be more considerate when answering these issues. I forgot that you had a need. You were not wrong to post these concerns, and I'll take the time to read your original concern and pray for wisdom if God allows me to address it.
brother Paul
tjservant wrote:Here is an article that explains this topic
I read the article and found nothing in it addressing the scriptures I posted and had questions about.
Sorry about that, TJ. But the article actually addresses the whole issue surrounding what we are discussing, so I offered it in the hopes it would shed light on this very important topic. There is a second article, linked to at the end of that one, that goes even further into this fallacy that "God hates sinners."
In answer to your quote from Psalm 5:5, the phrase "workers of iniquity" has a different meaning than what is often assumed. According to the Hebrew, it means "those who exert themselves in vain" or "those who practice nothingness." If you read the couple verses following, it reveals more.
That was also the term Jesus used when He said "depart from me ye that work iniquity," when He told of what His words would be to those who say "Lord, Lord, we did all these things in your name." Matthew 7:21-23
this fallacy that "God hates sinners."
Are there others that believe this is fallacy?
I'm not sure I do. I have read many of the scriptures that fall into this area and it would seem to me there is indeed a hatred.
Just to let you know, I have not only read, "the next couple verses", but the whole chapter...if not the entire book...in the areas I have asked about.
This is a serious subject to me.
Here is my one line answer:
God is angry at the wicked everyday, but has no pleasure in their death.
In other words, God is angry at them but his anger isn't a "wicked" anger. He still desires their highest good- which is that they repent.
God is angry at them but his anger isn't a "wicked" anger. He still desires their highest good- which is that they repent.
Good word, Parsley. God's anger isn't wicked or maliciously spiteful as heathen display in their hatred toward each other (or toward us).
God has no pleasure in the death of sinners. Those who have spent much time in the presence of God with fasting and weeping very soon enter into the heart of how God actually sees perishing sinners. Surprisingly, such who enter into His heart are not overwhelmed by violent feelings of hatred, but rather with waves and burdens and floods of tears and intense grief and pain. It's a trillion times worse than going to a funeral. Unspeakable woe. I tell you that tremendous lamentation and grief and mourning are at the very heart of God for our perishing race, and not wicked, begrudging hatred. Oh, God really does love this perishing world, with all its murderers and drug addicts and thieves and child pornographers. I don't know how, but He does. He is not willing that [i]any one of them
PreachParsly wrote:
Here is my one line answer:God is angry at the wicked everyday, but has no pleasure in their death.
In other words, God is angry at them but his anger isn't a "wicked" anger. He still desires their highest good- which is that they repent.
The question is...Does God hate?
I know he is angry with them. I know it is a righteous anger.
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