Hello everyone,
I know this has been discussed before, but I've been reading and skimming through the book [i]War on the Saints
I'm curious what anyone here thinks about this book, about Jesse Penn-Lewis, and about what in the world happened to Evan Roberts after the Welsh Revival.
Thoughts????
I personally believe that the Welsh Revival was a real move of God, however since it was not grounded in sound doctrinal teachings but only an experience based move amoung believers, it was like the house built on sand. Both Houses were completely built, but only one was built on the principles of Jesus' Words and only one stood the test of the storms that were to try both. Where the Word of God is sacrificed upon the altar of experiences the result can only be disallusionment. I believe there should be a proper balance of both , The Word of God and also an experience of the Presence of God. The mind (intellect) and also the emotions (soul) need to be touch inorder for there to be any real lasting change. In the end I believe Evan Roberts was just tired mentally and physically and never really recovered from the critisim from some main line church officials as well as the negative influences of some who were close to him and may have steered his thinking wrong as he reflected back. I'm not so sure that Jessie Penn-Lewis is very credible in that writting, also I believe there's some other references to that book on this site in the threads, may want to do a search. I believe it has been discussed before. :-)
I must admit that the book sets up a kind of feedback loop of worry within your mind. This is because the author repeatedly asserts that "faithfulness to the light" will not protect a saint from deception. It begs the question, if the light we see isn't enough to protect from darkness, then what use is the light?
To make matters worse the book says that the members of the Trinity have their counterfiets that want to decieve us! How then should one practice discernment? Apparently the only way is not to focus on some dramatic or sensational spiritual manifestation but to disspasionately measure the doctrinal integrity and moral direction of all experiences. (In other words, the gift of spiritual discernment is reliant on mature doctrinal understanding.)
In this light I think the book serves as a warning as well as a critique and repudiation of extreme emotional behavior and novel doctrinal statements in revivals...beginning with that infamous biblically abberant behavior that was part of the Welsh Revival. Men and women engaged in dog-like barking, chicken clucking, non-sensical laughter, leg shaking, convulsions...all of these things would have been condemned as demonic by the author of this book.
In short I feel that this book is best read through the lens of "Sola Scriptura". Lewis is saying we might as well quit relying on our own feelings and perceptions when 'discerning' the good or bad of spiritual manifestations. Even as Christians with seemingly pure motives, our human feelings and perceptions are still too corrupt to be the final judge of spiritual reality. We must always subject our feelings and perceptions to scripture and never exempt even our most cherished spiritual experiences from sound biblical critique. Only by adhering to clear and established biblical patterns and expressions of doctrine and faith can we hope to be imdemnified against deception and possible demonic influence in our lives.
At least this is what I got out of the book...
Blessings,
MC
MC said:
In short I feel that this book is best read through the lens of "Sola Scriptura". Lewis is saying we might as well quit relying on our own feelings and perceptions when 'discerning' the good or bad of spiritual manifestations. Even as Christians with seemingly pure motives, our human feelings and perceptions are still too corrupt to be the final judge of spiritual reality. We must always subject our feelings and perceptions to scripture and never exempt even our most cherished spiritual experiences from sound biblical critique. Only by adhering to clear and established biblical patterns and expressions of doctrine and faith can we hope to be imdemnified against deception and possible demonic influence in our lives.
Right on brother, Jesus makes this clear in His use of scripture during His wilderness temptations.
Matthew 4:1-4
Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. [2] And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. [3] And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. [4] But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Notice the first temptation satan used was against the senses, mans weekest point. It only makes sense he would do the same with us and get us to go for them instead of the Word of God.
Jesus makes this clear in His answer.
"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."
Not some 'but by every word' Revival must follow
God's Word to be truly of God, that is why it is not general but happens in individual hearts.
In His Love
pastorfrin
Thanks everyone for the help and for that link. Some things about the revival are still unclear to me and I want to do some more research.
I know that, despite it being a move of God, there definately were many excesses, as is sadly the case with most revivals.
Reading through the book some more, I think there are many good things to glean from it. However, in some cases it's extremely difficult to distinguish the soulish from the spiritual, the true from the countefeit. Penn-Lewis and Roberts take the near-impossible task of this type of discernment upon themselves, leaving much room for error. I believe it was Jonathan Edwards himself who admitted that the only true way to know if a manifestation was spiritual or demonic was to examine its fruit--a holy, transformed, persevering life that gives glory to God. It would be interesting to research the lives of many of these people in the Welsh revival to see continued to burn out for the Lord after it was over.
Another thing I didn't agree with in the book was that, as compton pointed out, the author goes too far in some areas, leaving you with discouragement, doubt, and distrust in the Lord, because for all you know in your attempt to draw near to Him you might be opening yourself up to demons!
Matthew 7:7-11 says,[i]“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9 [b]Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent?
These verses always encourage me to seek His presence and the fullness of His Spirit. God has already poured out spiritual gifts on me (that are in accordance with Scripture), and whenever I doubt and feel like they may have not been from the Lord I remember this passage.
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