Money Matters

This is an excerpt from Zac Poonen's "The Truth that We Believe":

Regarding offerings, God's Word is clear that it is wrong to receive money from unbelievers for God's work (3 Jn.7). Offerings must therefore not be taken in meetings where unbelievers are present. All giving by believers must also be voluntary and secret (2 Cor.9:7). It is wrong to send reports of the work to others, with the intention of obtaining money from them (even if such reports are called `prayer letters').

I think that this is rock solid doctrine. Oh that churches would be beyond reproach and not give the impression that they love money! I saw how eager they were to pass the collection plates around at Easter time, when many visitors were present.

As well, I believe Scripturally it is wrong for us to present our OWN personal needs to others. I know Ravenhill spoke on this quite abit. Why don't we trust God completely as we minister the Gospel? If we truly are doing the Lord's work He shall provide!

I saw how eager they were to pass the collection plates around at Easter time, when many visitors were present.

Yes, Ricky. I saw it too. Everything came to a standstill as the plate was passed around. To relieve the tension, pastors will often have the praise-and-worship team play some "intermission" music. It's all steeped in tradition. I remember hearing Ravenhill say that a certain church offered him ministerial position (I can't remember if it was him, or another preacher), and he said he would accept [i]only[/i] if they would meet certain stipulations:

1. That the staff would meet with him weekly and before each service for intense periods of intercessory prayer and supplication.

2. That they abolish the collections.

The church accepted, and agreed to his conditions. The church flourished.

I saw how eager they were to pass the collection plates around at Easter time, when many visitors were present.

MC

We "pass the plate" in our church although I don't think I have ever heard my pastor preach a message about "titheing" or anything like that. We're not money hungry at all. I wish we didn't "pass the plate" but rather just have a box where you can give.

The Jehovah's Witnesses actually have the right idea when it comes to giving. In their Kingdom Halls is a collection box that they keep at the back...and there it stays, and the members willfully put in as much as they feel led, privately. As you well know, the Watchtower has always had suffcient funds to carry on its poisonous agenda.

Does anyone here on SI attend an Evangelical church that practices something like this? I don't think I've ever been in one. I know that [i]after[/i] collections are taken up, the Pastor sometimes announces that an [i]additional[/i] plate is there on the way out...for any [i]additional[/i] gifts for missions, youth outreaches, etc.

People shouldn't be put on the spot with a deacon or usher staring at you while you slip a check into a basket. If you happen not to give that week, it can be uncomfortable knowing others immediately notice. I think it makes visitors uncomfortable, and perhaps feel obligated to put in a 5 dollar bill - though not out of a cheerful heart, but because of pressure and obligatory ethics.

Brother Paul

If the Lord leads me to ever start a church, I am becoming more and more convinced, that tithing should be done "unseen." I think that boxes in the back of the church is the way to go. I think it is sad that many churches have become so obsessed with money. I've been to some churches where the pastor will say, "I would just like to say thanks to John Doe for his $50,000 in tithes last week for such and such a thing..." It reminds me of the prideful pharisees in Scripture who made it known how much they gave and wanted (or got) some kind of recognition for it. Jesus was against it.

I wasn't objecting so much to the accepted practice of tithing, but to the plate being passed around on the one day in the year when half of the 'audience' are first time Eastor visitors.

By not taking an offering during the church service it allows the time to be spent on the more important things, the Word of God and prayer

Yes, sister Joy, I agree. I remember when we went to see Keith Daniel in Mabank, how a humble little plate was in the back at the table, with no extravagent mention beforehand of giving to his ministry. He goes by faith and believes God humbly for all his provision. If one's heart is right with God, and he has the means to give, and he is sitting under a ministry of holy, holy preaching...oh, the Holy Ghost Himself will impress it upon you to give generously and cheerfully, so thankful to God you will be to sit under such a man of God.

It was a great pleasure to give back to God through brother Keith - and without the embarassing "plate pressure." Oh, that more fellowships would trust God in this way. I am glad your church is like this!

Compton wrote:
I wasn't objecting so much to the accepted practice of tithing, but to the plate being passed around on that one day in the year when half of the 'audience' are first time Eastor visitors.

I agree Compton, that there is an underlying pressure on the "newbies" to participate in tithing, as well. I have gone to churches, other than my home church, on a holiday, and believe me, I myself have felt that unwanted pressure. Now, I don't believe I ever gave in, but that sad thing is that it sometimes almost feels as if all eyes are on you, and if you don't give in tithing then you'll be "damned" to hell. It's sad.

Hey Paul,
I have been to 2 churches that did the box at the back thing. And I have to say that it was great not only for the hearts of the believers, so that they didn't feel pressured but it also was great for the witness of the churches. There were several converts that said one of the things that they were struck by as they came into the church was that there wasn't an offering. I think the "Church"'s witnesses has in many ways hindered by a reputation of only being after peoples wallets.

I have been to 2 churches that did the box at the back thing. And I have to say that it was great not only for the hearts of the believers, so that they didn't feel pressured but it also was great for the witness of the churches. There were several converts that said one of the things that they were struck by as they came into the church was that there wasn't an offering. I think the "Church"'s witnesses has in many ways hindered by a reputation of only being after peoples wallets.

This is great! I'm really trying to think back and see if I've ever been to a church like that - and I'm coming up with blanks. What you've described is just what I'd anticipate. Three things:

1. God would bless the faith of the church's leadership and provide.

2. People's hearts would feel unpressured and thus be able to enter into a time of prayer and worship unhindered by financial obligations.

3. It would be a tremendous witness to visitors and those perhaps not foundationed in the faith. A world that stigmatizes Christian churches as "money grubbers" deperately needs to see a true church that is not bent on money, but rather holiness and purity. Keep the money bag in the back; bring the beautiful holiness of Jesus Christ to the front.

PaulWest wrote:
What you've described is just what I'd anticipate. Three things:

1. God would bless the faith of the church's leadership and provide.

2. People's hearts would feel unpressured and thus be able to enter into a time of prayer and worship unhindered by financial obligations.

3. It would be a tremendous witness to visitors and those perhaps not foundationed in the faith. A world that stigmatizes Christian churches as "money grubbers" deperately needs to see a true church that is not bent on money, but rather holiness and purity. Keep the money bag in the back; bring the beautiful holiness of Jesus Christ to the front.

Amen

I wasn't objecting so much to the accepted practice of tithing, but to the plate being passed around on the one day in the year when half of the 'audience' are first time Eastor visitors.

What’s this??? No offering for the C&E crowd?? It’s their chance to pay their dues! They expect it ….. been done that way for as long as they know: It’s TRADITION. (I have always assumed that most of the crowd are returnees, but I could be wrong) edit

Ya gotta have the offertory, folks!!!

Diane

I also think the box at the back of the church is the best way to go but the church that I attend does pass around baskets for the offering. However, at each service (Easter included), before the baskets are passed around the pastor will specifically ask those who are visiting NOT to put anything into the basket. Also, in the years I have been attending there I think I have heard one sermon that dealt with tithing, there is definitely no pressuring going on to give and many visitors have made favorable comments about that.

In Christ,

Ron

A large church that I went to for 19 years did not take up offering, unless for a visiting minister. They had boxes on the side walls and you could put it in whenever you wanted. It never lacked for funds to do what God wanted. I think that is the issue. If the work is inspired by God He will certainly fund it.

This is why I love George Mueller so much. They never told anyone of their need. The just went into the prayer closet and met God and He met their & the orphanages needs always. At times they had no food and the set the table like they did, thanking God for His provision and knock would come on the door and dinner was served. God is so good to His praying saints.