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Googling Theology

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Lawevangelis Apr 14, 2007

Since the advent of the internet, thousands of believers who have never been trained in the most basic principles of hermeneutics have become masters of theology. How is this possible? Through the magic and wonder of Google.

But have they really become adept at handling the Scriptures because of Google? Should "Google" become a rule of interpretation in hermeneutics? Logically, no. But in practice, it's pretty clear that a lot of Christians use it that way.

The problem with Google is that YOU GET EXACTLY WHAT YOU LOOK FOR. If you want to find arguments for or against open theism, enter the right search string and that's exactly what you will find. Writers (some with credentials and most with none) will put together convincing arguments and whether or not they are based on sound hermeneutics is irrelevant as long as the one who is searching agrees with their take on a given doctrine. Google enough pages and you can rip off someone else's argument and make your own look very convincing. It does not matter how much Scripture twisting has gone into either the Googled information or what is done with it. If the argument is convincing, or confuses the readers into stunned silence because they can't figure out what the author of a given post is trying to say, the poster assumes the position of vindication in his or her beliefs. Usually, the poster isn't sure what he's trying to say and paints himself into a corner (into Dan Corner's corner, usually) because he's been putting together a post from a dozen different Googled sources that have a dozen different lines of thought.

The remedy? "To your knees and to your Bibles" and use sound hermeneutics while you are there. And if you find that your favorite theologian is heretical in the process, abandon your favorite theologian. He probably lost his salvation when he became a heretic. ;)

Another problem with the internet is that anyone who has either the financial wherewithal or the knowledge to put together a website and a message board obtains a sort of leadership position, completely independent of the local church, which is God's ordained way of providing accountability and selecting leadership. Digital images and recordings can be manipulated to give the appearance of the second coming (or third, depending on your view) of the Great Awakening. Emails can be sent in bulk to suspecting and unsuspecting recipients and PayPal can fund it all. It does not take any examination of qualifications, it does not take any minimum doctrinal, educational, or moral ability (other than the ability to use a computer) to have a sort of "ministry."

But is it a "ministry" by definition? Ministry means service to others and to God. But isn't most of what we see in these self appointed preachers and ministries nothing less than a spiritualized narcissim? "Look at how great my ministry is, we did this, and this, and this and people did thus and such and we're going to take over the world, so send in your donations now and help us spread the good news about us."

Of course, this would never be said in so many words, but the actions of these ministries speak so loudly that I can't hear a word that they are saying. The goal in these "ministries" is not service to God and others; it is existence. By definition, that is not ministry. I'm reminded of the words of the fallible mortal, Leonard Ravenhill, who said, "Why don't people recognize what precious gifts of the Spirit I've been given? Because you stink with pride, that's why!"

Where are the ministries that are so much in the power of the Spirit that those who lead them don't care one wit if anyone knows their name? Where are the ministries that refuse to share every word that's come out of their mouths in a one-to-one or open-air with a mailing list? Where are the ministries that are content to be known by King Jesus and not to be known by anyone else? There's a lot of talk about being of "no reputation", but a lot of work towards developing one by a whole lot of people.

To Hell with our reputations because that's where they came from. To Hell with believing our own press and the garbage that people tell us about how great we are, because it came from the very pits of the same. To Hell with getting media coverage because the press agents there probably set it all up to promote our pride. To Hell with preaching that's not saturated with Christ because He is the Gospel; if that kind of fleshly, ego-feeding preaching didn't come from Hell, I don't know what does. The Spirit does not exalt men; He exalts Christ.

Brothers and sisters, we all must repent. Repent of phoney baloney theology and hillbilly hermeneutics and repent of ministries that serve no one but our own stinking, filthy, rotten egos. I think that the best argument for the total depravity of man is the very existence of some of these "ministries."

In conclusion, I propose that all internet message boards be shut down permanently and we labor for Christ in absolute obscurity until such time as we are gathered around His throne and He gives us the low down on what we were really all about. Could you be content knowing that Christ is the only One who knows about your last open-air? Your last one-to-one? If not, then whatever it is that you're building is not ministry. It's your own personal kingdom and that, my friends (and enemies) is idolatry.

Sincerely,

Jon

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SeanHobson Apr 14, 2007

The problem with Google is that YOU GET EXACTLY WHAT YOU LOOK FOR. If you want to find arguments for or against open theism, enter the right search string and that's exactly what you will find. Writers (some with credentials and most with none) will put together convincing arguments and whether or not they are based on sound hermeneutics is irrelevant as long as the one who is searching agrees with their take on a given doctrine. Google enough pages and you can rip off someone else's argument and make your own look very convincing. It does not matter how much Scripture twisting has gone into either the Googled information or what is done with it. If the argument is convincing, or confuses the readers into stunned silence because they can't figure out what the author of a given post is trying to say, the poster assumes the position of vindication in his or her beliefs. Usually, the poster isn't sure what he's trying to say and paints himself into a corner (into Dan Corner's corner, usually) because he's been putting together a post from a dozen different Googled sources that have a dozen different lines of thought.

Looking in this mirror I laugh at myself.

Thanks for the rebuke brother. Surely google has been the crystal ball for many believers, and when a sound argument that's according to our believers shows up, we say internally--"God lead me to it". What fools we are...

C
crsschk Apr 14, 2007

I'm reminded of the words of the fallible mortal, Leonard Ravenhill, who said, "Why don't people recognize what precious gifts of the Spirit I've been given? Because you stink with pride, that's why!"

Something about Len that just etches these lines into the hearing, this, one of many. Much here I don't think you would find any argument about whatsoever and here comes the 'however', however;

Where are the ministries that are so much in the power of the Spirit that those who lead them don't care one wit if anyone knows their name?

Here. Whatever the misconceptions otherwise.

In conclusion, I propose that all internet message boards be shut down permanently

Which is a bit problematic. More so in not knowing if you are including this one, it did give voice to your proposal ... At the same time I find the title 'message board' not applicable or at least the attempt is very different here. It would be far too easy to dismiss everything out of hand and more extraneous to mention all the good reasons to have a forum such as this. It has literally changed my life and many others in real tangible profoundly spiritual ways. One of the greatest is towards many of the exact same understandings you have outlined above ...

Again, this may not be your intent whatsoever but a caution, they are out there, there are other ministries doing a great service freely and without any concern for themselves in this manner. One of the greatest examples is summed up in these words;

THEODORE AUSTIN-SPARKS (1888-1971) left behind a treasury of writings filled with the Wisdom, Life and Revelation of Christ. He felt that whatever was given by the One Spirit of God should be freely shared with the One Body of Christ - what belongs to the One, belongs to all. He did not want his writings or tapes copyrighted; freely giving to the Body what was freely received from the Head. Having greatly appreciated his writings ourselves, we offer them here on the web for the further establishing and strengthening of the Body, that in all things CHRIST might have the preeminence.

[url=http://www.austin-sparks.net/]http://www.austin-sparks.net/[/url]

R
roadsign Apr 14, 2007

This:

Another problem with the internet is that anyone who has either the financial wherewithal or the knowledge to put together a website and a message board obtains a sort of leadership position, completely independent of the local church,

and this:

I propose that all internet message boards be shut down permanently and we labor for Christ in absolute obscurity until such time as we are gathered around His throne and He gives us the low down on what we were really all about.

Are you own words not condemning you? Are you, yourself, not asserting authority over us? I would certainly not fit into your acceptable parameters - for a variety of reasons. Yet would me submitting to your “authority” not be committing the same error as all those you speak of who allow internet “authorities” to dictate their thinking and choices?

Diane

L
Lawevangelis Apr 14, 2007

Diane,

No, not at all. I didn't say "demand", I said "propose."

I've posted this on half a dozen boards and so far it's been interesting to see how people ignore what I'm trying unsuccessfully to say about pride in ministries. I wish now that I hadn't made the statement about MB's shutting down. Many seem to read that and then they panic and miss the point. There's no question that MB's like this one have had much fruit.

May we all (myself most of all) examine ourselves to see what our motives are in ministry.

Blessings,

Jon


Are you own words not condemning you? Are you, yourself, not asserting authority over us? I would certainly not fit into your acceptable parameters - for a variety of reasons. Yet would me submitting to your “authority” not be committing the same error as all those you speak of who allow internet “authorities” to dictate their thinking and choices.

Diane

D
deltadom Apr 14, 2007

If google did not exist I would not have found Sermonindex.

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roadsign Apr 14, 2007

Many seem to read that and then they panic and miss the point.

Perhaps its all that smoke that's stinging the eyes. I'm not sure I clearly saw the point, myself. Sorry, brother.

By the way, I know that God's been doing marvelous things through the Internet - he is most resourceful! May God bless you through some of those means - that your faith may be strengthened. (not in the Internet, but in God!)

I am discovering that numerous Christian books can only be found through the internet - Abe Books, Amazon.com, etc... They are the ones you can't get in our modern-day Christian book stores - the classics - old a not-so-old, reference books, ... there's all kinds of fabulous Christian books out there, some real cheap!

By the way, does anyone know links to reliable Bible reference sites on the internet - to aid in Biblical exegesis - like commentaries, dictionaries, historical guides, etc. I've found E-sword and Bible Gateway, but was wondering if there were others.

Diane

T
Tears_of_joy Apr 15, 2007

By the way, does anyone know links to reliable Bible reference sites on the internet - to aid in Biblical exegesis - like commentaries, dictionaries, historical guides, etc.

Hi Diane,

I think these are among the biggest:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/
http://www.studylight.org/
http://www.bible.cc/

C
ChrisJD Apr 15, 2007

Hi everyone.


I remember how these forums were a part of me beginning to recognise my own self-seeking in ministry.


[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9686&forum=35&4]Covetousness(My own)[/url]

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roadsign Apr 15, 2007

I remember how these forums were a part of me beginning to recognise my own self-seeking in ministry.

Thanks for sharing this, Chris. I suppose I could add a similar observation. Seeing what I have written is somewhat like looking at myself in the mirror in a room full of fluorescent lights. The blemishes stand out! I doubt that I could tolerate looking at past posts – especially my earliest ones. I trust I have moved on since then – thanks to having had the opportunity to verbalize what lurks within - and then "getting to" see it.

Diane

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roadsign Apr 15, 2007

I think these are among the biggest:

TearsofJoy, many thanks for the links. I'm discovering a treasure of resources available there.

Diane

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roadsign Apr 15, 2007

There's no question that MB's like this one have had much fruit.

May we all (myself most of all) examine ourselves to see what our motives are in ministry.

Blessings,

Jon

Jon, I hope that you are still hanging around – so that you can pick some of the yummy fruit growing around here. Of course, there are thorns and thistles mingled in (mine too), so sometimes while picking you sustain a scratch or two.

I confess that one of the reasons I challenged you was because I do indeed desire to see the purifying of the saints, and am very aware of the need! Disunity is one of the symptoms of spirituals impurity, and I confess, I felt unable to be unified in Spirit with you as I read your words. From what you expressed, I couldn’t help but conclude that some aspects about me would measure a “pride” and “rebellion” on your radar - and yet those have been the very areas where God has lead me and blessed me, and drawn me to himself. I would wish that you could accept God’s ways of working in my life (and others) so that we can be in unity. (Not to say that there is not a lot of spiritual maturing that God is still taking me through.)

I agree with you that the local church should be the place where false teachings are kept in check. However, to an alarming extent that is not happening. In fact, it is in the local churches where false teachings are allowed to fester. And so people do go to the net seeking to fill the empty gaps. My prayer is that those who are truly seeing God and his truths will find it – even on the net. I know that he can supernaturally lead people to the exact places they need to be. That’s happened to me on a few occasions.

We’ve got a great big wonderful God!!!!

Diane

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