DesiJr
Apr 17, 2007
Just wondering your thoughts on this...
Just wondering your thoughts on this...
What makes you ask the question?
Well considering that almost everything Jesus said on the cross contradicts that:
"Today you will be with me in paradise"
"Father into thy hands I commit my spirit"
"It is finished"
You have to say 'no'. The work of salvation was finished on the cross.. he did not have to suffer in Hell, but He did suffer the torments of Hell on the cross ("Father, why have you forsaken me") .. so in that sense He did suffer it while on the cross, since the essence of Hell is separation from God... although Hell is actually also a real place.
I agree with Bob. I just wanted to say that I don't think Hell is the absence of God. God is omnipresent. I think in hell you are forever present with God who is pouring out His just wrath. God Bless and peace
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Jesus went to hell, not to suffer... but as the victor over death and hell. Keys are a symbol of authority. If you own a business you have the keys of that business. Satan no longer has the keys of hell and death because Jesus took them from Him [b]after
Grotesque false teachers such as Copeland, Hagin, Joyce Meyer, Benny Hinn etc would have us believe He went there and suffered hell in our place. This is patently false. Jesus never once submitted Himself unto Satan... He submitted Himself unto God.
Praise God, Jesus won the victory!!
Krispy
Krispy is right, Jesus did not suffer or need to suffer in hell. Jesus went and preached to the spirits in prison (hell) after His death.
1 Peter 3:18-21
18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
I'd have to disagree. How can Jesus have preached to people in Hell if He was in paradise? He specifically told the thief he would be there. We should interpret hard to understand scripture with easy to understand scripture...
If you look at the context of the passage it is talking about the Holy Spirit... (v 18) 'BY WHICH ALSO ....'
'By which' implies that he preached to them BY His Holy Spirit.
And really it isn't talking about the people now in Hell, but what this verse means is that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to the people in the time of Noah.. God was longsuffering and gave them a chance but they disobeyed despite the calling of the Spirit and so they were destroyed by the flood except for the eight who were saved by water
water is a type of the Holy Spirit, and our lesson here is not to reject Him
I agree with what you're saying about the scripture Jay posted.
The way I understand things, Jesus did not go into hell to spend any amount of time there other than to claim His victory over death, hell and the grave. I dont know the chronology of when He did all this, just that it was done.
It is completely conceivable for Jesus to have done this AND be in paradise that day. I dont see that as a contradiction. He did not spend 3 days in hell. His body spent three days in the grave... but His spirit was busy doing other glorious things.
Krispy
In fact he went and preached in hades.
The way I understand things, Jesus did not go into hell to spend any amount of time there other than to claim His victory over death, hell and the grave. I dont know the chronology of when He did all this, just that it was done.
May be it was just after the resurrection that Jesus went and preached the good knews to the spirits in preson. There is no contradiction after he died on the cross his spirit returned to the Father so only his body was lifeless for 3 days on the grave and then he came back to conquer death and after the body resurrection he made a triumphant entre in hell (hades) as Lord before ascended in heaven (bodily)to sit at the right hand of the Father.
I could be wrong on this, but I always understood scripture to say that once Jesus died He went in spirit to Sheol to bring the Old Testament saints souls to heaven with Him. Once we in the new covenant die our souls immediately are in the presence of the Lord.
Regardless, please don't think that I believe that Jesus went to hell to suffer for us. Jesus paid our sin debt on the cross and His resurrection was to give us life.
According to the KJV ... it's death and hell. I stick with that.
Krispy
What about in Heb 2 where it says that he tasted death for every man....this must mean not only death of the physical but of the spiritual as well. That way the punishment could be satisfied.
One thing amiss with that line of thinking, Desi... we never die spiritually. But then we're opening up a can of worms concerning hell.
Jesus was not punished in hell. Like the earlier poster said... if he was punished in hell, how could he have been in paradise that same day?
I think you're reading too much into Heb 2, and making some assumptions that contradict what other passages say.
Krispy
Help me to understand your perspective.
Let me see if I understand you correctly,
Christian man lives.
Christian man dies.
Body stays asleep.
Spirit man is immediately judged upon his physical death.
Spirit man goes to be with the Jesus in Heaven.
Jesus returns to Earth for His church.
Dead Christian man is reunited with his spirit man from heaven.
All Christians are gathered, living and dead, to live with Jesus for eternity.
You garnered all of that from what I've said on this thread? :-)
Krispy
What about in Heb 2 where it says that he tasted death for every man....this must mean not only death of the physical but of the spiritual as well. That way the punishment could be satisfied.
How could Jesus die in spirit that's an impossibility even sinners dont die in spirit/soul after there physical death they go to hades and they are conscience of themself waiting in their "prision cells" the day of judgment, the only total death (soul/body) they will experience (called the second death) is after the day of jusdgment to the lake of fire but it will be a "death" where they'll be fully aware of (gnashing of teeth).
Every man dies phisically but not in spirit/soul so in that sense Jesus tested death for everyman by his physical death.
Ha Ha...no no.
Just in your last statement.
Is anything I said not true concerning your current understanding of the statements I typed?
If the punishment for sin is just our physical death...then Christ didn't rescue us by His death on the cross...because Christians die the physical death every day.
He did something more...he paid the ultimate sacrifice... the ultimate death...eternal separation from God.
But....death could not contain Him and he was victorious over it.
He did something more...he paid the ultimate sacrifice... the ultimate death...eternal separation from God.
if you back it up with 1 or 2 Scripture verses i'll believe it.
There are 66 books that witness to this.
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