Good day

It is important to note today's Supreme Court affirmation of the Partial Birth Abortion ban is also valuable as a legal precedent. Not since 1973 have the courts in this country shown any will to place limitations on the unquestioned right to kill unborn human beings. Legal precedents are extremely important in America...they inform future descisions. Even so, this ban does not prevent all late term abortions, but instead bans a specific grizzly technique that was somehow tolerated among civilized society.

The act of inducing a mature baby's entire body to emerge from the womb in order to sever it's spinal cord is arguably the greatest social injustice in America since slavery. What civilized and moral person could possibly be unhappy about banning such barbarism? (Obama, Edwards, H. Clinton...)

After the recent mass murder in Blackburg Virginia, this Supreme Court decision is welcome news. Whether this achievement belongs in the Kingdom of Heaven or of Earth I don't know, but surely the Lord is pleased with this wonderful event.

MC

Hi MC,

Mixed ... thought's hearing this. It's just that it is still ... to turn the phrase a bit ...[i]partial[/i].

I will never understand the mind that can be appalled at murder in every other form and still find abortion something to be 'protected'.

I hear you Mike.

When it comes to the spiritual and moral climate of America, it seems good news only drips in small doses these days. Still, every drop tastes sweet.

Blessings bro.

Say, are you planning on coming to Canton this fall?

MC

Say, are you planning on coming to Canton this fall?

Absoultuely!

And you and yours?

Hi Samuel,

Am not following you brother ...

you don't understand how much this hurts the african-american christians when they see so much of attention being given to abortion

Sam brother,

Just because we fiind reason to be cheerful on one front doesn't mean that we have forgotten the others. Without being indifferent to the bad, it is spiritually (and mentally) healthy to notice the good and praise God for it.

Must I regard my brother's joy and gratitude as selfishness? One person is thankful that the Lord has met his financial need, but another brother condemns him for not sharing. One person is healed of sickness but another rebukes him for his happiness, reminding him that others are starving. Dear brother...there is a season for both sadness and joy...and we can share in both!:-)

Blessings,

MC

And you and yours?

Wild horses couldn't keep me away...I've been waiting for an non-entertainment praying/worshipping/weeping/waiting assembly like this for many years.

I'm planning on bringing as many people will come and showing up at Daryls place to sleep. (Don't tell him...I want it to be a surprise.) :-P

MC

there is a season for both sadness and joy

Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep

Even in the dark times we may still find cause to rejoice...there are always blessings from the Lord. For example...

..I'm looking forward to Canton too.

What a time to look forward to! There are more bonds of affection in this forum then we might sometimes suppose. This fall, just as sure as I am that there will be tears...I am sure some of those tears will be joy and gratitude for having been allowed to share the Gospel among each other these past few years. How rich we are with each other in the Lord Jesus.

Blesings,

MC

i am really grieved .... i want to ask all of you- did you grieve for the dead person that was shot today in the near inner city you live at today?

Certainly. To an extent. Everytime one hears of a senseless killing as a believer they should be grieved. It boils down to choices. One of the greatest needs for repentance in America today is along the lines of fatherless babies. Kids who have no father raising them and they being born and raised in the streets with no guidance. exactly like Elvis Presley's song "In the Ghetto."

I have a cousin that has a son that was just arrested as a suspect in a drive by shooting and was holed up until the swat team came in. I tried to reach him for several years as he attended our youth group. I received a call to pray for him as they were coming in to get him. Imagine seeing the news team filming as the police are near to kicking in the door on one your family and former youth? Grieve? And then some. Fortunately he was already gone from the house or would have been shot dead. He was picked up the next day. He is an out-of-control 20 year old that had no father at all in his life. We talk about repentance, but we need to be specific on some real issues. The fornicating and children out of wedlock have to STOP. Society is killing itself with a slow death.

I saw on COPS once where a man was being chased and replied, "I didn't kill anyone!!!" As if that's the only sin that can destroy humanity. The wisdom of God's commandments is found in the suffering of children who have no father. They are on the receiving end of the sin. But even that does not excuse them killing each other. Poverty is not an excuse either. I grew up in the Inner City born a mile from the notorious Jurrasic Park in KC where people are murdered and beaten and drugs are sold on the corner like it was free. We may not have had much, but at least there was some direction and guidance. And we didn't murder anybody.

The difference with the Partial Birth abortion is that these are helpless and innocent near term babies we are talking about. These things were happening mainly in Wichita, KS. We would hear of near term women being brought to brutally destroy their babies who could have survived outside the womb. The law was passed through congress near 3 times and a vetoed 2 times by President Clinton and would have been a third. These were helpless babies. These we not people who had their minds and could make choices. It was the [i]least of these[/i]. And if we can't protect them- there is nothing civil about our so-called civilization.

Just because we fiind reason to be cheerful on one front doesn't mean that we have forgotten the others. Without being indifferent to the bad, it is spiritually (and mentally) healthy to notice the good and praise God for it.

Amen. Any time some headway is made in slowing the proliferation of wickedness is cause for rejoicing. Prayers are being answered.

Occasionally the objection arises that we [u]can't[/u] win the world through political means and this is true. But as peoples hearts change to see the wisdom and justice in stoping certain crimes against humanity we should be thankful and rejoice. I was greatly pleased to see the ruling come down. I know the parties involved are not saved yet. I know they still need to be born again. But I think it has at least restrained the moral depravity of a people who left to themselves are capable of doing anything the devil would inspire.

Oh God give me a heart that's not judgmental and self-righteous. a heart that's humble, always quick to learn, rejoice, and grieve with Your saints.

I can certainly share in this prayer. I need to be able to step out and put myself in the shoes of others. God give us your perspective.

Just a few points about abortion:

The experts tell me most of the abortion clinics are located in the poorer communities, mostly populated by blacks. Now go figure why this is so.....

Legislation has been passed in some states that forbid an abortion to be done to a minor without parental consent. This sounds fine, like as though this would cut down on the number of abortions. And the stats appear to support it. But the reality also is that parents will force a girl to have one even when she fights it tooth and nail.

Would you know if all religious people would quit having abortions, most AB clinics would close? There are too many Christians who support this procedure ....

Yes, I am glad this horrific procedure can be outlawed.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

What a time to look forward to! There are more bonds of affection in this forum then we might sometimes suppose. This fall, just as sure as I am that there will be tears...I am sure some of those tears will be joy and gratitude for having been allowed to share the Gospel among each other these past few years. How rich we are with each other in the Lord Jesus.

There is no doubt brother ... It really hit me today at lunch to just [i]see[/i] http://www.revivalconference.com/ the names listed, some that I am not even familiar with. Moreover it is just ... this is something that has been discussed in various forms for a number of years now. It brought both delightful chills and even a tear of joy ... I cannot express how much I am looking forward to this. To see so many from SI both new and old ...

Need to also make mention in the thread that Greg has up, the way and manner of this... Oh praise God! Very much what you MC stated earlier.

This is a very peculiar thread here, this mixed tension, 'bittersweet'. Samuel, bless you brother, I think I understand somewhat where you are coming from now and especially your willingness to be open hearted here. Have been giving a great deal of thought to how our perceptions can be skewered by ... how ... We are either broken, heart broken or we are just [i]angry[/i] over sin, over the evil that men do. That is as difficult a statement as I may have ever made, because there is a measure of anger ... I am certainly angry over my own sin, but I think I am thinking differently at the anger itself. It is too easy to say "Love the sinner hate the sin", too dismissive, too easy. Reading through again Richard Wurmbrand's accounting of the tortures he and others suffered at the hands of the Communists is bringing a different perspective to all this. Theirs was not cerebral but actual. They actually loved and were broken over the hearts of those literally killing and torturing them. It is really far beyond human reasoning.

Maybe this might be applicable to what you are expressing;

"I will tell you just one case of suffering of a family that I know personally. A brother entered prison on account of his work in the Underground Church. He left behind a wife with six children. His older daughters of seventeen and nineteen could not get a job. The only one that gives jobs in a Communist country is the state, and it does not give jobs to children of "criminal" Christians. Please don't judge this story according to moral standards; just receive the facts. The two daughters of a Christian martyr - Christians themselves - became prostitutes to support their younger brothers and sick mother. Their younger brother of fourteen became insane when he saw it and had to be put in an asylum. When years later the imprisoned father returned, his only prayer was, "God, take me to prison again. I cannot bear to see this." His prayer was answered and he was jailed again for the crime of having witnessed for Christ to children. His daughters were no longer prostitutes, as they received jobs by complying with the demands of the secret police - they became informers. As daughters of a Christian martyr, they are received with honor in every house. They listen and then report everything they hear to the secret police. Don't just say that this is ugly and immoral - of course it is - but [i]ask yourself if it is not also your sin that such tragedies occur,[/i] that such Christian families are left alone, and are not helped by you who are free."

[i]Tortured for Christ[/i]

Looking forward to meeting you Samuel.

I have always shunned the abortion for i have thought not much about it, and dismissed it as a sheep's cloth for the "wolves"

This is understandable; it is a paradox when politics accomplish something moral and decent. I really appreciate your resistance to political interests. Together we need to wash one anothers feet of this dirt brother.(That's how I saw your earlier correction to my own political jibing...washing my feet of that dirt.) It seems no matter how moral or spiritual an issue is, once it has been politicized it becomes exclusively the domain of politics. They become partisan prizes.

Many valid victims are often the first to suffer from those who use their plights, turning them into political and rhetorical weapons. Many shrewd pundits become quite self-righteous when talking about the victims of abortion, racism, poverty, war, ect...but they rarely do anything for these victims. How can they...they are too self-absorbed with their own restless ambition. Their main interest is in leveraging the emotional and symbolic power of human suffering to achieve a psycological and social advantage against political opponents.

Some religous people passionately lobby political powers, or they protest loudly against social injustice, but they don't really have a burden in their heart; they just have a monkey on their back, and are intent on putting one on everyone else's back too.

Still, there are many others who can love without strings. The peace and love of Jesus sets them free from their biting agitated posture, from cynicism and fear, and from hypocrasy, and sets them free to truly spend themselves for others.

Recognizing this, I guess we can likewise be free to concentrate on the people God has placed in our lives and our hearts, being faithful to whatever sphere of influence we might be entrusted with. I believe our practical sphere is rarely 'global'...like RobertW recently said, most of us cannot comprehend or are not in a position to affect, the plight of millions of people. Instead we have been placed in families or communities, or even single friendships where we are called to love and serve. I believe these types of smaller scale burdens are authentic ministries...one life at a time. I believe the spiritual man has found rest from the law, and this enables him to rest from seeing social injustice as a path to self-justification or promotion.

Yet it remains true that we are often overwhelmed not only by the crushing sin and suffering we see in the world, but also the sin we find in ourselves. Mercifully we can place these staggering problems in God's hands (with sincere prayer) so that we can love exaustively and without ration the handful of people God has given to us to love. He looks after the needs of billions...we minister to the needs of far fewer and I believe this is how it should be. It's the small and seemlingly insignificant rays of columnated light, and not the highly visible diffused global light, that has the power to start fires.

This is why I say we should wash one anothers feet bro when we come close to "political" topics... so that we can go care for people as Jesus would with a purehearted focus and with peaceful indifference towards the political and social causes that seem righteous but make everything dirty.

did i mention i plan to be at Canton too?

Looking forward to meeting you there Sam.

Blessings,

MC

...ask yourself if it is not also your sin that such tragedies occur

I wrestle with this question more often then I would like to admit. It seems to fit many situations from abortion to inner city violence.

We were not always so divided along racial and economic boundaries...

All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.

What if revival looked (edit: a little) like this? Would we still be interested? (edit: I believe we would...)

Blessings dear saints,

MC