" SHOULD CHRISTIANS WATCH THEIR ASSOCIATIONS " ??

Jesus was a friend to both publicans and sinners and he ministered to them - he told the Jews he came not to call the "righteous" but "SINNERS" - to repentance.

They that are WHOLE need not a physician - but rather ... they that are SICK ( This said he: in a figure )

Concurrently and still on topic ~ we see that Cornelius from (book of Acts fame) invited his kinfolks and "NEAR FRIENDS" to hear the preaching of Peter !

So the question then begs: Is it wrong to have friends that are -SINNERS- in the world ??

Jesus ate with them, did he not? - and he supped with them. So how then ... do we "reconcile" all this - with the other warnings in scripture about ... not being "unequally yoked" with the unbelievers - out there ?

Where does the balance lie then ? (that is to say with-out compromising one's own convictions) regarding that of purity, and of holiness ?

Because we also read in the book of Hebrews how that Jesus was all this: Holy, harmless, undefiled, and "SEPERATED" - from SINNERS !!

Well let's explore this EVEN further, and i cite now an example from my own life - as many of you well know i have my "own business" in the "automobile industry" and that being the case - also means that i like many of you, constantly am around sinners, i mix with them, i associate with them, and am often invited to sit down with them upon the completion of my job - to have drinks, coffee, and a social chit chat. And through all this ... do i not establish relationships and meaningful friendships with those - classified as the (ungodly and the sinner). ?

But that said ~ i am able to do all this with-out running with them - and without compromising, and without the necessity to attend the places they frequent - and where they party hard !!

Unfortunately THOUGH the Scribes and Pharisee's where not able to make this ( balanced distinction ) and so they castigated Jesus AND HIS OWN DISCIPLES - upon seeing him eat meat with "hard core" sinner types.

WHY This man: eateth and drinketh with sinners they exclaimed !! and on another occasion a (sinner woman) washed the feet of Jesus with her OWN tears, TEARS mind you that were "bathed in repentance" BUT however ... upon seeing this - the pharisee's said amongst themselves - now if this man were really a prophet - he would surely have known what manner of woman this is - for she is a sinner :-(

The real issue is this however saints ~~ as long as we are not partakers with them ( in their sins ) and keep ourselves pure ! Then really ... what harm is their - in having "frienships" with sinners ??

You were once a sinner too (remember) BEFORE YOU ALL GET HOLY OR GET TOO SELF RIGHTEOUS ON ME, OUT THERE -- and again ( THE SINNERS ) only pose a threat to US , when they seek to entice US (into sins) ~~ to the which we turn away and say, thanks - but no thanks. And thus we know where to DRAW THE LINE, AND WHERE THE BOUNDARIES LIE. (NO) ?

SO don't treat sinners like lepors or like they have leprosy -- trust me on this score, they will not bite you !! Nor will they contaminate you or pollute your walk with God. Only if you let them influence you the wrong way - then does it become an issue.

So Again the scribes and pharisee's had a real problem coming to terms with Jesus associating with sinners, because to them you should make the clean break - and steer clear away ... from all the "vermin" out there.

The only form of evangelism they seemed to ascibe too was this - trying (to proselyte) people from one (religious faith) unto ANOTHER !! And they did this - because it was probablty seen as much easier to convert somebody who already had faith and believed in a "God" of sorts -- than to convert the (out and out) filth of the world, otherwise known as ... the SINNER'S :-

Ohh to get the balance on these issues - and not make the same mistakes as the father's did (no) ?

But then theirs the other extreme ended thinking that says ~~ it's okay to "run" with them - and to frequent the same places they go and WHERE THEY attend :-?

For instance i heard a fellow believer say recently that he has a friend that goes into all the bars and pubs during "happy hour" time and witnesses to all the sinners there -- whilst swishing down one beer after another - with them.

Is he indeed witnessing ? or is he just talking up politics, religion and local current affairs -all of which i use to do anyway - before i too became a disciple ... more like a good excuse to drink lots of beer and just throw in few discussions about God and religion ( and call it witnessing ) i don't think so friends !

What a poultry and pathetic excuse - to still mix with the old crowd ~~and to indulge in "happy hour" $1.00 drinks ... is more accurately to the point -- i'd say !

Calling a spade - a spade ( that is ) !!

The scripture are clear - on this wise though

~~ If sinners entice thee consent thou not
~~ All things are lawful to me
~~ But all things are (NOT) expedient
~~ Be not partakers with them
~~ But rather keep thyself pure young Timothy
~~ Jesus was holy, harmless, undefiled and SEPERATE from sinners

SO WHAT FELLOWSHIP THEN HATH BELIEVERS WITH UNBELIEVERS ?

AND WHAT ASSOCIATION HATH CHRIST -- WITH BELIAL ?

Is it lawful or acceptable then for a believer to be seen, or to indulge in the following things ??
** frequenting masonic lodges
** playing bingo at the bingo halls
** visiting the saloons at "happy hour"
** palm and tea reading cafe's and the like
** places known for semi-nude swimming & bathing
** Betting agencies & horse racing events
** Even Theatre going and cinema attendance
** playing poker for money, and other "time wasting" festivities etc etc

To ask the question - is to answer the question !
( IOW: rhetorical questions beloved )

But still many excuse such behaviors and the like

Ive heard pastors and ministers say it is good to watch and attend the movie houses and to watch movies like harry potter and (LOTR) because one can gain knowledge and many an allegorical spiritual truth -- from viewing these "occult" ( my emphasis ) movies.

Ahh man ~~ give me a break !! Of all the lame and poultry excuses in the world - that has to be the icing on the proverbial cake. Such preaching is seducing - and is aimed at your SALVATION beloved.

Remember the words of John regarding those who would "seduce us" and lead astray !!

Ive heard and witnessed these statements coming from the lips of well known mainstream and pentecostal/ charismatic ministers - out there.

They even show excerpts of well known "block-buster" movies in their services as a means of allegory - or to support their views on doctrine.

Again though: what fellowshp hath Christ with belial - or how can we drink from the cup of the Lord table and the cup of devils tables at the same time ? ( i ask you )

Be not decieved about any of these things beloved

And i know their may be some in here ~~ who might say im too old-fashioned, or im too narrow-minded, or a legalist ... or even a bigot !

But suffer it to be so -- for i'd rather err on the side of caution (thanks) ... than to be gullible, or to conform, or to give into worldly or "christian" peer pressures ( thanks )

Brother Stephen wrote:

Jesus ate with them - and supped with them. So how then do we "reconcile" all this - with the other warnings in scripture about not being "unequally yoked" with the unbelievers ?

I see it as when Paul is teaching about being "unequally yoked" he is actually pointing to the "affection" that we have in common with those who walk in darkness. Do we worship the same idols as the world? Do we have the same hopes as the world? Do we seek to find fulfillment in the same activities as the world?

2 Corinthians 6

12 You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted by your own affections. 13 Now in return for the same (I speak as to children), you also be open.

2Cor. 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?

The affections we have that are found to be in common with the world, these are the affections that distance us from our Lord.

In Christ
Jeff

Thanks for addresssing me by my first name
Bro Jeff

Still i would hope for more feedback

than just the one contributor - thus far !

Because likewise bro Stephen does not bite :-)

Seriously im a friendly guy ( seriously )

Though i may be prone to a little ... thunder"
( at times )

In a manner of speaking that is ;-)

Thanks again bro Jeff !!!

Sometimes, I don't know if we don't take the Lord's name in vain, when we do things that oppose Him, yet call ourselves Christians.

Like, you mentioned, frequenting masonic lodges, playing bingo etc.

For me, those are ungodly practices, and I wonder if we don't grieve the Holy Spirit when we do those things.

As for associating with sinners, I don't doubt that we should know where to draw the line.

We can't do everything that Jesus did.

Jesus fasted 40 days. Hands up all those who have ever done that?

Not that we can't fast 40 days, we just won't.

He also raised the dead and called people vipers and hypocrites. Not too politically correct was He?

There is a balance in this.

I have been to the homes of sinners at their request, but it was to talk about God, the word of God etc.

If it's just to pretend I'm 'one of them', then no, not a chance.

I think by and large we know what to do.

Sinners don't compromise with us, why should we compromise with them.

Good post.

God bless.

Some good thoughts / comments
by Bro Enid ( here )

Hard to know where to draw the line - i know this to be true in my own life

Some things are obvious ( enid ) others not so sure !

Let every man persuaded in his or her own mind
We have the witness with-in however, i don't know about you ... but i get "checked" in my own spirit about things - that may be blurred or im just not sure - wether this is the right thing to be doing etc etc

Romans chapter 13 has some great advice on these very issues !!

Thanks for your insightful contribution Enid

As always this brother "adds" to me - and provokes my own walk in the Lord. !

A big thank you
my brother !!!

Great question and great posts as well.It's a tough one to answer but you folks nailed it down well with the Word.Bottom line "bad company does corrupt good habits" and on the other hand we are "Kept by the power of God" God sent a Christian to share the Gospel with me in a barroom of all places and God used this guy to save me.Would I go into a barroom and do the same probably not but that was God's call for him at that moment and it's a little outside the Christian box but God is infinite and does what He wants when He wants to.If and it's a big if someone seroiusly gets a call from God to go somewhere,Anywhere He will get the power to escape that temptation present there I mean really God knows all things If a persons heart is not right with Him and hes not a real believer God may well let that man succumb to His own ways.So should we worry if God calls us to "Nineveh" He will keep us in it.

Am I the only one on this thread that still sins? I think I am a saved sinner please keep this simple for me but.I truly have compassion for them they have no clue what's up.I could quote a pile of God's Word to illustrate these things but you guys know your Bible's and Love the Lord and people too I know that.And that's commendable.However The moment I think I dont still struggle with sin this side of heaven is the moment I'm either decieved by the enemy and my own heart with my conscience "seared as with a hot iron".Or I think I'm better than "Them" He takes the habits away (Alcohol,Drugs,Porn etc.)But now that I'm saved Everything imaginable can potentially viewed as a "
sin or weight easily besetting me"

Bottom line: I want to be in a place where God will use me and preserve me from the sin around because if were honest we can't go anywhere without meeting sinners and please dont get heavy on me but "God loves sinners(people)" And wishes that "All repent" so I a (Sinner) saved by Jesus (Born Again) can tell that burned out mess of a sinner (Person) that God wants to take that sin away and give them His life and freedom from (Habitual Sin) I work in a liquor warehouse ,21 yrs. now and the guys (Sinners) I used to sin with see me radically different and 15 guys recive a day recieve a hand-written bible verse everyday,People have goten saved etc.would I recommend any Christian apply fot this Job, no But This is where i was when He saved me so here I am I a very dark place shining His light.

I belive God loves sinners and will use us to rescue them at all kinds of places.

I'm sorry that I have to point this out, but I'm not a brother!

Can't help but smile when people make that mistake.

Enid was actually my mother's middle name.

So now that is sorted out, back to the subject.

God bless.

:-o There you GO

FORGIVE THE MISTAKE !!

I don't subcribe to many "worldly acronyms" if that's the right ( word ) to use here

But to err is human ( in this case ) ~~ but to forgive ( s.o.t ) is divine

Forgiveness actually is Divine ~~ for God forgave us first !!!! :-)

God bless !

caldwell wrote:
Great question and great posts as well.It's a tough one to answer but you folks nailed it down well with the Word.Bottom line "bad company does corrupt good habits" and on the other hand we are "Kept by the power of God" God sent a Christian to share the Gospel with me in a barroom of all places and God used this guy to save me.Would I go into a barroom and do the same probably not but that was God's call for him at that moment and it's a little outside the Christian box but God is infinite and does what He wants when He wants to....Am I the only one on this thread that still sins? ...But now that I'm saved Everything imaginable can potentially viewed as a "sin or weight easily besetting me"

Bottom line: I want to be in a place where God will use me and preserve me from the sin around because if were honest we can't go anywhere without meeting sinners and please dont get heavy on me but "God loves sinners(people)" And wishes that "All repent" so I a (Sinner) saved by Jesus (Born Again) can tell that burned out mess of a sinner (Person) that God wants to take that sin away and give them His life and freedom from (Habitual Sin) I work in a liquor warehouse ,21 yrs. now and the guys (Sinners) I used to sin with see me radically different and 15 guys recive a day recieve a hand-written bible verse everyday,People have goten saved etc.would I recommend any Christian apply fot this Job, no But This is where i was when He saved me so here I am I a very dark place shining His light.

I belive God loves sinners and will use us to rescue them at all kinds of places.

So do I. And if you can work in that place, and show a light, I'm all for it.

Liquor is not, in and of itself, the enemy of mankind. Man is the enemy of himself.

Also, I happen to enjoy a good wine now and again, and a sip or two of Tia Maria at the holiday meals - warming, but hard to overdo.

But I also have no weakness where alchohol is concerned, or pharmaceuticals and illegal drugs. Not my virture, just a place I don't seem to go.

But I have my weaknesses elsewhere, and yes, in my mind, I do tend to sin, fall down on the path, have to drag myself back up, dust myself off, ask God for forgiveness for my weaknesses, and for strength to go on, but this is a day by day, even hour by hour problem some days.

And frankly, anyone who says otherwise is lying.

Not everyone thinks they need to repent for blowing it - Dead Wrong!

'Repent' means to turn around and go the other way. From the Greek, Metanoia.

Easton's Bible Dictionary
Text: There are three Greek words used in the New Testament to denote repentance.

(1.) The verb metamelomai is used of a change of mind, such as to produce regret or even remorse on account of sin, but not necessarily a change of heart. This word is used with reference to the repentance of Judas (Matt. 27:3).

(2.) Metanoeo, meaning to change one's mind and purpose, as the result of after knowledge. This verb, with

(3.) the cognate noun metanoia, is used of true repentance, a change of mind and purpose and life, to which remission of sin is promised.

Evangelical repentance consists of

(1.) a true sense of one's own guilt and sinfulness;

(2.) an apprehension of God's mercy in Christ;

(3.) an actual hatred of sin (Ps. 119:128; Job 42:5, 6; 2 Cor. 7:10) and turning from it to God; and

(4.) a persistent endeavour after a holy life in a walking with God in the way of his commandments.

[color=993300}The true penitent is conscious of guilt (Ps. 51:4, 9), of pollution (51:5, 7, 10), and of helplessness (51:11; 109:21, 22). Thus he apprehends himself to be just what God has always seen him to be and declares him to be. But repentance comprehends not only such a sense of sin, but also an apprehension of mercy, without which there can be no true repentance (Ps. 51:1; 130:4).[/color}

Oh, you'll still go to heaven if you don't repent for day to day sin's, because Grace trumps Sin, but frankly, Paul said we were not supposed to let that happen.

[color=993300}Romans 3: 20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30. Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.[/color}

Am I saying that we should follow the Law? No, I am saying we should not abuse Grace, that we might have victory in this life, as well as Eternity.

And if this is not required in order to die to sin, I'd like to know how to die to sin any other way. So far, I haven't found one.

[color=993300}
Romans 6

1. What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2. God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7. For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9. Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17. But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[/color}

Caldwell, you asked to keep it simple. Well, what I said was simple. I just backed it up by a lot of scripture.

Keep shining on!

Blessings,

Forrest

sonofthunder wrote:
Jesus was a friend to both publicans and sinners and he ministered to them - he told the Jews he came not to call the "righteous" but "SINNERS" - to repentance.

They that are WHOLE need not a physician - but rather ... they that are SICK ( This said he: in a figure )

Concurrently and still on topic ~ we see that Cornelius from (book of Acts fame) invited his kinfolks and "NEAR FRIENDS" to hear the preaching of Peter !

So the question then begs: Is it wrong to have friends that are -SINNERS- in the world ??

Jesus ate with them, did he not? - and he supped with them. So how then ... do we "reconcile" all this - with the other warnings in scripture about ... not being "unequally yoked" with the unbelievers - out there ?

Where does the balance lie then ? (that is to say with-out compromising one's own convictions) regarding that of purity, and of holiness ?

....SO WHAT FELLOWSHIP THEN HATH BELIEVERS WITH UNBELIEVERS ?

AND WHAT ASSOCIATION HATH CHRIST -- WITH BELIAL ?

Is it lawful or acceptable then for a believer to be seen, or to indulge in the following things ??
** frequenting masonic lodges
** playing bingo at the bingo halls
** visiting the saloons at "happy hour"
** palm and tea reading cafe's and the like
** places known for semi-nude swimming & bathing
** Betting agencies & horse racing events
** Even Theatre going and cinema attendance
** playing poker for money, and other "time wasting" festivities etc etc

To ask the question - is to answer the question !
( IOW: rhetorical questions beloved )

But still many excuse such behaviors and the like

Ive heard pastors and ministers say it is good to watch and attend the movie houses and to watch movies like harry potter and (LOTR) because one can gain knowledge and many an allegorical spiritual truth -- from viewing these "occult" ( my emphasis ) movies.

Ahh man ~~ give me a break !! Of all the lame and poultry excuses in the world - that has to be the icing on the proverbial cake. Such preaching is seducing - and is aimed at your SALVATION beloved....And i know their may be some in here ~~ who might say im too old-fashioned, or im too narrow-minded, or a legalist ... or even a bigot !

But suffer it to be so -- for i'd rather err on the side of caution (thanks) ... than to be gullible, or to conform, or to give into worldly or "christian" peer pressures ( thanks )

Hey, Stephen! Long time no hear from! How are ya?

I missed your posts!

Anyway, Basicly, don't marry an unbeliever, neither in marriage, or in life.

Shaking hands is perfectly okay. It just depends on the personal weaknesses of the witness.

Jesus had no weakness and could go anywhere He chose. As I said in the just previous post on this thread, I have no bar room weaknesses. Don't have any gambling weaknesses (Yep, done, won, it was fun, no big deal. But I don't want to live there either. Too noisy, and boring.)

I may enjoy a glass of wine or a drop of Tia Maria (It's a coffee brandy, for those that don't know.) However, I don't drink more than probably once a month in my bad years.

So I could probably go play pool in a bar, and witness at the same time, so long as the band wasn't up yet - you can't talk over loud music, and that's not my music anymore. (Fun music, but not essential, and the lyrics are dangerous to put into your mind)

Bingo, all the rest of the stuff - fun, but not an obsession for me, same thing. If it's legal, and normal, not paranormal, I can probably do it safely.

You do need to keep your witness appropriate to place. Now, If I want to play pool in a bar, from my walker (Which I've done!), I can, but I still only drink bottled water.

Witnessing in a betting room? Yuck - I think Christ already tried that from the cross, but they were gambling over that Guy's clothes, so I don't think they ever listen. Nor in a casino, or a bingo room...too noisy, and they are all having such a great time sinning!

Now outside on the curb, where the dejected ones are? That might make a good spot, especially if the guy's just lost his paycheck, and is getting kicked out of his house, family, or apartment.

Be ready with your own list of sins you keep repeating to your own hurt, or that Jesus saved you from. And maybe the address of Gambler's Anonymous. And a bed at the Mission, too, after you take him out to dinner. Don't take a her without your wife - too dangerous. No wife? Leave the gals to the gals. No Husband? Leave the guys to the guys.

Now going to sick movies...so that you can what? Pray about where that misspent money went? Now that is where everyone can draw the line. You know where your mind goes...so don't go to places that lead the mind in a wrong direction.

Same thing with popular music, although it's the lyrics, not the music that gets me. Put a godly set of lyrics to great rock, and I'm fine with it. I can rock out in the car, or at home, and praise God at the same time. I even wrote a rap song about God - Holy Spirit helping, since I don't play an instrument well! It's on tape, with many other songs of all kinds, awaiting some musician to stumble into my path.

Not that occult stuff, though. I spent years with that stuff - could make a good living at it if I wanted the demon at my shoulder to move in permanently. Jesus keeps him from bugging me, but I won't ever read a palm, or touch a Tarot Card again. Too good at it naturally and un-naturally.

A movie about the occult - mostly amusing to me, they are so off! But I don't waste my time there very often. If it's funny and star studded, well maybe - once every five or ten years. Know of only one good one of this type for Mature Christian Adults with a good sense of humor. But I doubt if they'd be interested, unless they're Sandra Bullock fans. Bad topic, great treatment in the film.

Porn? If I don't look or read, my mind doesn't go there. Very simple.

On the other hand, just the simple chore of digesting 1400 calories a day for a year and a half didn't take any weight off me - I gained weight! I'm now on steroids for chronic pain due to an over active muscle condition! A lovely Catch22 there. Can't eat, can't not eat.

Darned hard to do aerobics to raise my metabolism with a walker in that situation, so I might not be recognized as a good witnss. After all, I look like a great sinner, something the Holy Spirit was at pains to point out to me this week. I definately scream 'couch potato', although I don't own a couch - just recliners. Am I lazy? Sure. But I got lazier the more it hurt to move.

To get over that one, I had to remind myself that at least I'm as hard as a rock! (Don't hug me, I'll crush you!)

But I'm a great witness in the grocery store - no not my cart, silly, my smile! I have fun! I ride one of those cute runaround carts, and try not to run over people deliberately! I like people, exhausting though I find them these days! And I find a lot of Christians with absolutely no trouble. And I still witness, after all, car crashes happen to everyone, and might take you to hell if you're not saved, right?

But whatever you do, don't marry one of them. I tried it - it didn't work. I could put up with the cobra temper I didn't know was there, but not the Meth that aggravated it. I, being unversed in the illegal drug world, had no idea what those Friday night tirades were about every week for 13 years. I thought it was just venting the weekly rage, and thought it was good I had the guns put away - except for the Colt Cobra at my right hand! (I am not stupid all the time! I keep snake shot it in now.)

After an hour, I'd have a migraine, and two hours in, I'd say so. Three hours in, and a twelve pack later, the spouse was asleep, the problem was over for the week, and the rest of my marriage was really pretty good. Still, in the end, the former spouse walked, not I.

This is where the real danger lies, that you tie yourself to someone without your values, and without God to help you both get through.

The old law was about not using a pair in plowing the fields made of an ox and a donkey, lest you abuse the donkey.

In the new law, don't marry the non-Christian, lest you allow the abuse of the Christian. (Even yelling can turn out to be abuse, though I wasn't aware of it at the time.)

Stephen, in no way could a sane individual call you a bigot. Traditional, sure. Values oriented? A family kind of guy? Why not. A good Christian...only God knows. Nope, not even you. But, it's okay to look that way.

Blessings,

Forrest