Why did Jesus speak in proverbs during most of His ministry? Why didn't he speak plainly to people?
John 16:25, "These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."
JaySaved wrote:
Why did Jesus speak in proverbs during most of His ministry? Why didn't he speak plainly to people?John 16:25, "These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father."
Just as it says in John 15:25 -
He didn't want to be understood too soon. His ministry was a careful balancing act between spreading enough word, and getting Himself killed at the wrong time, since that date was already prophesied in Daniel.
[color=993300]Daniel 9:25. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.[/color]
Jesus had to be dreadfully careful not to build Himself up too fast, nor get Himself 'cutoff' too soon.
He had to enter Jerusalem on a Sunday, the 10th day of the first month on the Judaic calender, and probably quite early in the day to allow enough time for everything prophesied to come true. Being God, and in constant communication with the Father, He could stage manage this part, which had to be very carefully handled.
One, to be the passover Lamb, He had to be presented and inspected by the Priests at the Temple four days before a Passover that fell on a Wednesday Evening, our way of determining days, but on the beginning of the 14th day of the first month, which by the Judaic way of counting things, starts when the first star can be seen in the evening, and would have been termed Thursday by the Jews on that week.
That way, Jesus would be in Jerusalem, seen of all men for the ritual four days that a lamb was to be tied to the gate or door of each household.
(Why did He have to present Himself in Jerusalem, hailed as the Messiah, and to prove Himself blameless before the priests in the Temple? Why the Temple? It was His house, and everyones.)
Then, he had to be killed before Wednesday Evening (Thursday by Judaic Calender), according to the time when all the lambs were slaughtered for a ritual - Starting by 3:00 pm, when the roasting needed to start (Imagine if you will how many priests had to be slaughtering at once for all of Jerusalem to be off and cooking before sundown.)
Then from the time Jesus was killed, there had to be three days and three nights in the grave, just as long as Jonah was in the belly of the whale. So he had to be buried before sundown, and on top of that, those who buried him had to wash up quickly before sundown, or they'd be ritually unclean for the Passover Feast.
But, because of the way Jews count days the night first, and then the day, it goes thusly: Thursday night, Thursday day, Friday night, Friday day, Saturday night, Saturday day.
Sunday night was the beginning of the Feast of First Fruits, on which Jesus had to rise, or be out of line with all the prophecies.
We, of course, don't start Sunday until Midnight, but Jesus could be up and out of the tomb Saturday evening as we count, or early Sunday evening as the Jews count. Yes, that calender overlap is deadly on the American brain! And European, and every where else the day ends at midnight, which I think is just about everywhere but Israel.
So, those proverbs were necessary...a few would get them, here and there, and in the meantime, His works, which He told people to believe on, even if they didn't believe in Him, would keep the fascination growing until the critical months before Passover the year of Christ's death, when Jesus could be more and more plain about Who He was, so that the palm leaves would be laid, and Hosanna would be cried when Jesus entered on that donkey, as per prophecy.
As if you didn't know...but a good question to be expounded upon, and much misunderstood by the Christian Church, who tend to go by what the Roman Catholic's taught originally, and what many Protestants are afraid to check on. From what I understand coming from a Catholic Mom, Catholics are neither into Scripture, nor Prophecy. And they count badly as well. Not their fault - it goes back to Constantine's time.
But when Jesus says the sign of Jonah, that means three whole nights and three whole days, not bits of each crammed into 1 & 1/2 days to fit what somebody who coudn't read clearly nor count, from the evidence (Augustine?) said hundreds of years back.
[color=993300]Exodus 12
1. And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,
2. This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
3. Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
4. And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
5. Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6. And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
7. And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
8. And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
9. Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
10. And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
11. And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the Lord's passover.
12. For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord.
13. And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
14. And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
15. Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
16. And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
17. And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
18. In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.
19. Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.
20. Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread.
21. Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.
22. And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
23. For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
24. And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
25. And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the Lord will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.
26. And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?
27. That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the Lord's passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.
28. And the children of Israel went away, and did as the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.
29. And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
30. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.
31. And he called for Moses and Aaron by night, and said, Rise up, and get you forth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve the Lord, as ye have said.
32. Also take your flocks and your herds, as ye have said, and be gone; and bless me also.
33. And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We be all dead men.
34. And the people took their dough before it was leavened, their kneadingtroughs being bound up in their clothes upon their shoulders.
35. And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment:
36. And the Lord gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them such things as they required. And they spoiled the Egyptians.
37. And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
38. And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.
39. And they baked unleavened cakes of the dough which they brought forth out of Egypt, for it was not leavened; because they were thrust out of Egypt, and could not tarry, neither had they prepared for themselves any victual.
40. Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.
41. And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the Lord went out from the land of Egypt.
42. It is a night to be much observed unto the Lord for bringing them out from the land of Egypt: this is that night of the Lord to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations.
43. And the Lord said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:
44. But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.
45. A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.
46. In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof.
47. All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.
48. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.
49. One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
50. Thus did all the children of Israel; as the Lord commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.
51. And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the Lord did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.[/color]
Hal Lindsey recently did a show on this, and completely missed it by half a day, by not explaining the differences between the Judaic Calender, and our calender. And of course he didn't even mention the four days the lamb had to be tethered to the house, so people would make a pet of it, then know a little of how God felt when He had to kill His own Son. I wanted to spank Hal, then I thought, well, for most people, that would pass well enough, and adding in the Judaic calender for those that don't know their Bible would have taken a full extra half hour, and Hal would have lost his audience to boot. I just hope he's really smart enough to know better. He lives nearby me (about 35 miles, from which where I live in California is the next town), but then I thought, oh well, he doesn't have the staff to answer me, let it gooooooo!
Blessings,
Forrest
He didn't want to be understood too soon. His ministry was a careful balancing act between spreading enough word, and getting Himself killed at the wrong time, since that date was already prophesied in Daniel.
But people's souls were at stake. Is it fair that Jesus did not speak plainly to these people so that they would understand? Why did he have to be so figurative so that so many people were confused.
Why did Jesus speak in proverbs during most of His ministry? Why didn't he speak plainly to people?
No doubt this will provoke more questions...
Jay, my dear brother,
Before Jesus died everyone was under the law. Yes, it would have been nice for them to believe, but actually, it was the small cadre of 120 in the upper room that received the Holy Spirit after Jesus's resusrrection that were crucial, for it was they that spread the Gospel, which before Jesus's death wasn't the Gospel.
Nothing was finished until Jesus died, and until He came back and explained things to the Apostles, and the Holy Spirit came upon the upper room at Pentecost, no one understood what Gospel they were to spread.
The beginning, with Jesus claiming to be the Messiah, was enough for then. Understanding wasn't required. The works should have been enough for belief if God had wanted belief. If He had, their hearts would have been opened to receive what was said.
But the whole point of Christ coming was that God was highly 'wroth' with the Jews, and sick of the Law that they didn't treasure, and knew, from the beginning, that Jesus had to come and take care of the mess. That the Gentiles, we Messianic Gentiles, would have a chance for a while, that the prophecy about the world being blessed in Abraham would come true.
Yet even so, God promised there would be a remnant of Israel. And they will repopulate the earth after Jesus comes.
And we will be there to be His government officials, His Teachers, Judges, Counselors, Preachers, Exhorters, Policemen, Firemen, IRS, DMV and the Post Office! Everything that Jesus want's done not by a living human, but by one in a glorified body, and hence immune to corruption, we will do.
[color=993300]Matthew 11
1. And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities.
2. Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
3. And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
4. Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
5. The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
6. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.[/color]
The Law died with Christ, but Christianity really began with Pentecost. Before then, God treated people under the law according to their works and offerings, and what faith they had in Him. Did they love Him at all? Did they value Him? Did they make an effort, even as we are to do so?
Yes, they were bound to the letter of the Law, and had ways out of sin by offerings. And their whole society built up such a mass of rules about how to keep the law that yes, one could be blameless for long periods of time.
If you note in the Scripture regarding the Rich Man, he told Jesus He had kept the law from his youth, and Jesus did not correct him. The 'Fence around the Torah' does such a good job at leading Jews through Life, that with great care, they don't sin...with their bodies. But oh, how they sin with their minds, as we do! Only we are aware of it so greatly because of Jesus.
But it didn't matter if their heart was clean if they were under the Law. That's our burden in Christ, to try and stay clean on the inside, and not break the Laws either, where they apply to us. And the cleaner your mind and heart, the easier it is to hang onto Jesus, and get rid of the temptations.
Christians are supposed to spend this life learning how to accept love from God, learn how to love, and practice loving one another. If we
do this, we'll keep far more laws than we think.
In addition, it does say that Jesus spoke to all the people in Hades/Sheol (Not Hell) during the three days He was in the grave. If they were'nt already on the wicked side, but in Paradise, the souls that could be saved were offered a chance at salvation in Christ. And we are talking millions of people from the past.
[color=993300]1 Peter 3:18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the spirit:
19. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20. Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22. Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.[/color]
And the rest, who are operating under the Law...that's why the White Throne Judgement will be so painful. So few will get by on their works. But God, blessedly, will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and compassion on whom He will have compassion. Faith and Trust might count a great deal. After all, He sure liked it in Abraham.
[color=993300]Romans 9: 12. It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.[/color]
Lots of great stuff, huh? And lots of hope as well, for I cherish a suspicion that Paradise is in eternity, and all people who are not given over to wickedness will also hear/have heard that same Sermon that Jesus gave to the spirits.
Sorry there's not scripture on where/when Sheol/Hades is.
I'm 13 hours past my bedtime...must get some sleep.
Blessings!
Forrest
It appears to me that it was God’s purpose and plan to keep the majority of the 1st Century Jews from believing on Jesus. He did this in order to bring salvation to the Gentiles.
Matthew, John, and Paul all quote Isaiah 6
Isaiah 6:10
Make the heart of this people dull, and their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."
Matthew says that understanding of the parables is granted to certain people, but not others.
Matthew 13:10-17
“And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”
He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘ Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I shouldheal them.’
But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.”
John says that the unbelief was a fulfillment of Isaiah in that He has blinded their eyes and He has hardened their hearts. Who is the He?
John 12:37-41, “But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:
“ Lord, who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?”
Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
“ He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”
These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.
Paul says in Acts that the fact that the Jews did not believe and agree means that salvation has been sent to the Gentiles who will hear.
Acts 28:23-29
“So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening. And some were persuaded by the things which were spoken, and some disbelieved. So when they did not agree among themselves, they departed after Paul had said one word: “The Holy Spirit spoke rightly through Isaiah the prophet to our fathers, saying,
‘ Go to this people and say:
“ Hearing you will hear, and shall not understand;
And seeing you will see, and not perceive;
For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”’
“Therefore let it be known to you that the salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will hear it!” And when he had said these words, the Jews departed and had a great dispute among themselves.
The verses following the Matt 13:10-17 verses are those which deal with the different kinds of soil and their response to the 'seed'.
I wonder whether he used parables to decrease their culpability while at the same time revealing truth to those whose hearts were 'good and honest ground'.
I wonder whether he used parables to decrease their culpability while at the same time revealing truth to those whose hearts were 'good and honest ground'.
I like this explanation!
[color=000099][b]For the hearts of this people have grown dull.[/b]
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes[b]they[/b] have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”’[/color]
These verses hint on a lack of repentance and an unwillingness to know the truth about God. If a person doesn't desire God, nor have the humility to recognize their position of absolute nakedness and need before God, then the person isn't (yet) a candidate for salvation, nor revelation.
Matthew 7:6 uses no uncertain terms.
[color=000099]
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
[/color]
Jesus used parables and riddles when addressing multitudes, or unrepentant individuals like the Pharisees that didn't really want to know the truth.
When Jesus addresses other individuals, he often used plain speech. When he does use 'riddles' it looks like he is provoking the person to more faith, thought and seeking; and not trying to hide the truth in any way.
Jesus spoke quite plainly to the young rich man. I think he genuinely wanted to know the answer to his question - until he saw the price tag!
PassingThru
(Edit : fixed a couple of typos)
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
The passage goes on to say that [i]they
The parables may have been used to reveal the fact that folk believe what they [i]want
John 9:39-41
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
The parables in a sense were dividing the sheep from the goats. Those who wanted to 'hear' would listen. The parables were often simple and made the learned pharisees angry no doubt. How we receive what the Lord says is indicative of how we feel towards Him. This is true of everyone we love, generally. Folk put the best construction on the behavior of those they love; but if our hearts are not towards a person they can do no [i]right[i]wrong
At the root of this is pride. They matched their own traditions and laws and wisdom against the very Oracle of God. The foolishness of God is wiser than men. God could speak nursery rymes to them under an unction and out smart their lofty long winded explanations. The foolishness of preaching? The foolishness of parables? Why?
1 Cor 1:27-29
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 [u]That no flesh should glory in his presence.
It appears to me that it was God’s purpose and plan to keep the majority of the 1st Century Jews from believing on Jesus. He did this in order to bring salvation to the Gentiles.
Paul anticipated this thought:
Rom 11:19-20
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21-23
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, [u]if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Notice [i]why[u]if
The issue at hand is no different than when Moses came down form the mountain. They did not desire to look to see the fullness of the Glory of God within the Law. They could not handle the 'light' coming off the revelation at Sinai. The people simply did not want the 'Glory'- the tangible evidence of the presence of God. Give me the book- but keep the Glory at a safe distance. They had turned from God Himself in putting the veil on Moses' face. We don't want to see you God!
2 Cor 3:12-18
[u]Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And [i]not as Moses
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 [u]Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
The parables, so it seemed, not "great plainess of speech" were merely an audible manifestation of the vailed word; shielded from manifesting it's full glory. Why? they would not turn to the Lord. Lord? What Lord? And the Lord is that Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty. Yet, they did always resist the Holy Ghost. They would not stop resisting the Holy Ghost so they were taught appropriately. This is a fearful thought! Can a person resist the Holy Ghost and hear anything clearly from God?
Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
It was not given to them because they did always resist the Holy Ghost. If they had turned to God, the vail had been removed from their hearts and they could have been grafted in to the olive tree again. It was up to them.
What did they do? They took their religion after the Temple was destroyed and the priesthood gone and developed a religion that could exist without the tangible presence of God. We know it, as [i]Rabbinic Judaism[i]that
RobertW wrote:Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
It was not given to them because they did always resist the Holy Ghost. If they had turned to God, the vail had been removed from their hearts and they could have been grafted in to the olive tree again. It was up to them.
What did they do? They took their religion after the Temple was destroyed and the priesthood gone and developed a religion that could exist without the tangible presence of God. We know it, as [i]Rabbinic Judaism[i]that
Would we have reacted the same way, not been able to bear the nearness of God? I suspect so...
Jeannette
" Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,And seeing you will see, and not perceive; For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.”’
Today [i]if
Deut 29:1-4
These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
2 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land;
3 The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:
4 Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.
Obedience is required if ever we are to expect God to reveal things to us. The people were a 'stiffnecked people' and we see the results. God did not give them a heart to perceive, eyes to see, or ears to hear. Why? They were always in rebellion against the Holy Spirit. Going back to people saying they don't 'understand' the Bible. They never will until they cease turning from God. When they turn to Him- He lifts the vail. Seems almost to be an axiom of scripture; turn and you will see, hear, and understand.
RobertW said:
What a lovely testimony! The grace of God starting with Israel which rejected it; going to the Gentiles, and then returning full circle to bless and save.It is interesting to note that my instructor that was formerly Orthodox Jew went into a Pentecostal meeting and sensed the presence of God. It was that awareness that caused Him to turn to God and believe on Christ. He said once that he did not know what everything meant that was going on; but that he knew that God was there.
Rather similar to the fact that Missionaries from developing countries are coming to bring the Gospel back to places like apostate Britain and America, which first sent missioneries to them!
Of course Israel is a special case in its significance in the world, in history, and in the purposes of God. He always intended to bless the world through Abraham, and He did it this way, by blinding them in part "until the fullness of the Gentiles is come in".
Jeannette
These verses hint on a lack of repentance and an unwillingness to know the truth about God. If a person doesn't desire God, nor have the humility to recognize their position of absolute nakedness and need before God, then the person isn't (yet) a candidate for salvation, nor revelation.
I think this is well said. I know it sounds harsh, but it seems that God has set things up in such a way that if we are not willing to love Him then we cannot progress in any revelation. No revelation- no salvation. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word. God just seems to want folk who truly love Him and He has some powerful means of revealing if we do or don't. He also has some powerful ways of revealing HIS love that we might reciprocate.
RobertW wrote:These verses hint on a lack of repentance and an unwillingness to know the truth about God. If a person doesn't desire God, nor have the humility to recognize their position of absolute nakedness and need before God, then the person isn't (yet) a candidate for salvation, nor revelation.
I think this is well said. I know it sounds harsh, but it seems that God has set things up in such a way that if we are not willing to love Him then we cannot progress in any revelation. No revelation- no salvation. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word. God just seems to want folk who truly love Him and He has some powerful means of revealing if we do or don't. He also has some powerful ways of revealing HIS love that we might reciprocate.
No, not unwilling to love, for many, like myself, did not know how to love when I sought God, but that I was willing to listen, and study it, until I was convinced.
The Sanhedrin, and many others simply would not even listen, to see if what Jesus said was truthful or not.
And these men knew, or should have known, that the Messiah was due then. It's plain enough in Daniel. Others, like Simeon, were literally hanging on by their last breath to see Jesus born. Yet those that followed the Law would not even consider the idea of Grace.
Blessings,
Forrest
RobertW wrote:
I think this is well said. I know it sounds harsh, but it seems that God has set things up in such a way that if we are not willing to love Him then we cannot progress in any revelation. No revelation- no salvation. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word. God just seems to want folk who truly love Him and He has some powerful means of revealing if we do or don't. He also has some powerful ways of revealing HIS love that we might reciprocate.
Robert, I want to thank you for sharing your wisdom on this matter in your previous posts, it has helped me understand many things!
And these men knew, or should have known, that the Messiah was due then. It's plain enough in Daniel. Others, like Simeon, were literally hanging on by their last breath to see Jesus born. Yet those that followed the Law would not even consider the idea of Grace.
Yes, this is very true. It is strange how this played out individually and among the various groups. The Messianic concepts of the first century had some looking for a Messiah like David and yet others a suffering Messiah. The consistent view which plays out beyond the writings of the NT such as Josephus' writings is that the Messiah would be a deliverer. Gamaliel even compared the followers of Jesus to the followers of other would be "Messiah's".
Acts 5:36-37
6 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
Messianic expectations were HIGH in Galilee, especially. The Romans were dealt a lot of grief as a result. This helps understand Mark 14:70:
And he denied it again. And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto..
The TR includes the little snippet at the end... thy [i]speech agreeth thereto
It was the Messianic hopes and expectations that led to fight after fight in Israel until the Romans finally banished all Jews from Israel and renamed the area Palestine in retribution and Jerusalem [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aelia_Capitolina]Aelia Capitolina.
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