I've talked with several people lately that have brought up things from the OT. It got me thinking, what still applies to Christians and what doesn't? I know we don't have to kill sheep anymore, but what about the non-sacrifical laws. I've heard people use certain scriptures for their arguments, but then when you bring up a law from the next half of the chapter they say we don't have to do that. What gives?
Jordan
Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind, and strength.. and love thy neighbor as thyself. Both from Deuteronomy and both noted by Jesus as fulfilling the Law in totality. The heart of the OT is the sovereignty of God displayed in so many forms-- that's what remains, and is in effect forever-- and that's what God wanted to teach us via it as a way to understand God as God via his specificity (Israel) judgement (Sodom, Adam, etc.) and love/mercy (Jesus) [which while you may not think is in the OT and many people act like He isn't... IS actually in it... just gotta read between the lines!]-- pretty much. Other people can expand and expound.
Jordan
P.S. The heart of the Law remains.. the formalities of it does not. Bringing up scriptures from the OT in their formalities and out of context is an erroneous act that many do without understanding the New Covenant contextual basis of it.
I believe that many things are no longer applicable like sacrificing animals. However there are other things that are though not 100% necessary. Like for instance certain foods that are unclean may be unhealthy and so it would be good for us to obey the law, or to rest one day a week. Though I don't think to many Americans have a problem with that. Then there are things that we are still forbidden to do like Murder or steal, if we do these things how can the love of God abide in us?
When asked about the greatest of the Commandments, Jesus replied, "The first of all the commandments is, HEAR, O ISRAEL; THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD: AND THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THEY GOD WITH ALL THY SOUL, AND WITH ALL THY MIND, AND WITH ALL THY STRENGTH: this is the first commandment. And the scond is like, namely this, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. There is none other commandment greater than these." (MARK 12:30-31)
Adam was created to love his Creator more than anything or anyone else. He was also made to love his wife, and all their offspring, as himself - but not near as much as he was to love God. But Adam loved Eve more than God, and trusted her word over His... and as one sin broke those two perfect and profound Commandments, the exponential multiplication of sin resulted in the exponential growth of laws and judgements to counter the effects of sin...
When Jesus was asked about divorce he said, "Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so." (MATT 19:18)
If we obeyed the second Commandment, and loved our wives as ourselves, there would be no need to leave her and no need for divorce law. The multitude of sins created the need for a multitude of laws and punishments. Lawmaking got way out of hand by the time Jesus came to Jerusalem.
When the Pharisees caught the Desciples picking corn on the sabbath, and accused them of lawlessness, Jesus replied, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath..." (MARK 2:27)
The sabbath was instituted by God as a day of rest for free men, slaves, and even animals - a day to worship, recoup, and refresh our minds, bodies, and souls. But we weren't created to serve the sabbath; the sabbath was created to serve man.
The first God-given "human right", if you will.
“If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free… ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.” (JOHN 8:31-38)
My opinion of this scripture is that the lawyers and pharisees got way too focused on fault-finding, making laws to counter those errors, and finding loopholes in theose very laws to escape their own condemnation (being mortals and thusly, sinners themselves). As the chief sinner, Satan, accused and persecuted Man, they, as children of Satan, accused and persecuted everyone but themselves.
Jesus, as the defender of Man, swept away the laws of worldly men by taking the sins of Man onto Himself on Calvary, killing them as He was killed, and dumping them, and the countless, pathetic, futile laws of men, where they belong... in hell.
He has returned us to the original two Commandments -Love God above all else; Love others as you love yourself. If one obeys these two commandments, it is impossible for him to sin.
Forgiveness and mercy now trump law and judgement. Instead of finding a law somewhere that condemns the person that hurt me, I find I love him as myself, forgive him as I've been forgiven, and get on with my life. Freedom!!!
(Though I personally am nowhere near as forgiving as I ought to be).
“Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.” (II COR 3:17)
"So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.” (GAL 4:31)
“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” (GAL 5:1)
The just shall live by faith.
In Christ
Jeff
I think its the fact that the essentials of the Law is no longer an external set of rules but written on the heart. (Jeremiah 31: 33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD. I will place my law within them, and write it upon their hearts; I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
HomeFree89 wrote:
I've talked with several people lately that have brought up things from the OT. It got me thinking, what still applies to Christians and what doesn't? I know we don't have to kill sheep anymore, but what about the non-sacrifical laws. I've heard people use certain scriptures for their arguments, but then when you bring up a law from the next half of the chapter they say we don't have to do that. What gives?Jordan
Not the Law but the means of fulfillment of it, has changed.
The moral law was always in force but man couldn't keep it. The ritual law, (sacrifices etc) was all fulfilled in Christ. They were "types" or leading up to what Jesus did, so are not needed since He came.
Blessings
jeannette
LittleGift wrote:Not the Law but the means of fulfillment of it, has changed.
I had someone tell me that, but Jesus gave us new commands (John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.) and God did say we could eat unclean things which we couldn't have done in the OT.
Thanks,
Jordan
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Where we follow Christ in truth, we are not subject to the law, because we have obeyed. Where we fail to follow Christ, the law guides us back to Him.
Interestingly enough, we must read the law as part of seeing what Christ is doing in order to follow Him.
What Still Applies to Christians from the OT?
Tithing... according to most preachers.
;-)
Krispy
Tithing... and every other part of it! ;-)
Tithing... according to most preachers.
I know this is a little off topic, but does tithing matter anymore? Aren't we to give all that we have to Christ? If we do give all, we will give what the Lord wants us to give so we wouldn't have to tithe.
Jordan
Maybe more to the heart of the original post, I have heard a number of people on this forum cite passages from the OT law when making an argument about why people shouldn't get tattoos.
Are we still under that law regarding body markings? What is the determinant of which laws we still must follow?
An excellent series of sermons by Charles Leiter here on SI might help your understanding:
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=8300]The Law of Christ Pt1
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=8301]The Law of Christ Pt2
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=8302]The Law of Christ Pt3
I think it will help you to differentiate between the Old Covenant, and the Scriptures in the front of our Bible from Genesis to Malachi (commonly called The Old Testament).
God has done away with the Old Covenant He brought in by Moses. He has brought in a New Covenant.
And, we are not "baptized unto Moses," as were the Israelites of old, whom God bound thereby unto that Covenant from Sinai; we are baptized into our Lord Jesus Christ, and an entirely New Covenant that goes forth from the Heavenly Mount Zion (Heb. 12. 18-24).
So, while there are some in the earth who still try to relate to God on Old Covenant terms, this is utterly impossible. Only through the New Covenant of which the Lord Jesus Christ is mediator is it possible to draw nigh unto God.
Open your heart to Him (and keep on opening it) and let Him write His Law upon your heart and mind. He will be faithful to do this.
The Old Covenant is gone. Forever. However, the Scriptures from Genesis to Malachi, as many continue to discover, are a wondrous treasure trove of truth... but a treasure which can be opened and enjoyed ONLY with the KEY of the New Covenant. There is great untold wealth there, NEW COVENANT wealth, which we need the Holy Spirit to open up to us, to illumine to us, and enable us to enjoy.
We must come to Him as a little child, confessing our ignorance and blindness, and ask Him to "show us wondrous things out of His law."
And He WILL show you: He'll give you, if I can put it this way, a pair of "New Covenant glasses," saying, "Look at it all through these."
It has helped me immensely, in my own search for truth, to realize-- and if there's one thing I could emphasize more than anything else it's this-- all Old Testament Scriptures must be seen and interpreted in the light of the NEW Covenant.
(And if you see how immensly the aposltes of Christ quoted from the Old Testament, and pay attention to how they interpreted those Old Testament Scriptures, you will be among the wise.)
Hope this helps a bit.
AD
It has helped me immensely, in my own search for truth, to realize-- and if there's one thing I could emphasize more than anything else it's this-- all Old Testament Scriptures must be seen and interpreted in the light of the NEW covenant.
Paul refers to the 'work of the law written in their hearts';“Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)” (Rom 2:15 KJVS)...this is not the same as the 'work[u]s
The 'work' of the law is the underlying principle of righteousness upon which Israel's law was based. The Sinai law was a particular and local and temporary application of a much more ancient code of behaviour which is written in the hearts of all humanity. The Sinai law is no longer in effect having ended with the coming of the Seed. (Gal 3:19) However the underlyng principles of that law are distilled into 'one word' (Lev 19:18,34; Deut 6:5; 11:1; Matt 5:43; 19:19; 22:37,39; Mark 12:30-31; Luke 10:27; Rom 13:9; Gal 5:14; James 2:8).
In Galatians, Paul describes this as 'one word'“For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”(Gal 5:14 KJVS)It is interesting that in the Greek our English phrase 'thou shalt love' is actually just one word; agapEseis.
The underlying principle of the law was 'thou shalt love... God, neighbour. As the Lord expressed it“Jesus said unto him, [b]Thou shalt love[b]Thou shalt love[b]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
The natural man has relics of this original 'law' written on his heart and his conscience, if it has not been cauterized, will bear witness to it and then either approve or disapprove of his actual behaviour.
One of the great promises of the New Covenant is “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:”(Heb 8:10 KJVS)There is an interesting connection to the giving of the Sinai law and the coming of the Spirit in Acts 2. The Feast of Pentecost was, and is, celebrated by the Jewish people as the anniversay of the day when they received their law at Sinai. The coming of the Spirit in Acts 2 follows this same pattern. Christ goes 'up' to receive the covenant law having told his discipes to 'tarry' until the Spirit comes. The coming of the Spirit established the new covenant law in the hearts of God's new covenant people. Then all they had to do was live it!!
“And he said unto the elders, [b]Tarry[b]a cloud
“And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but [b]tarry
“And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and [b]a cloud
Maybe more to the heart of the original post, I have heard a number of people on this forum cite passages from the OT law when making an argument about why people shouldn't get tattoos.Are we still under that law regarding body markings? What is the determinant of which laws we still must follow?
While we're not bound by the OT laws, NT teachings do show that the principle for the OT Laws are still in play. For instance, tattoos... Paul exhorts us to abstain from even the appearance of evil. When you see someone covered in tattoos is your first thought "Now there goes a man of God..."? Doubtful. We associate tattoos with the world.
God forbade tattoos in the OT because it was something pagans did, and He wanted His people to be seperate, peculiar, set apart from the world.
Today... most Christians want to be just like the world, thinking 1) I'm free in Jesus to do as I please, or 2) If I act and look like the world I'll be able to lead them to Christ.
I know Christians who have tattoos... and this is my conclusion: I will not judge someone for getting one, it's between them and God. But as for me, this is what I believe God has brought me to.
Krispy
this is just my own view, but often we try to see how much we can get away with without sinning, how close can i come before it is sin, Cant remember where, I'm sure someone can help with the passage, doesn't Jesus say somewhere to his disciples that they should "do everything the teachers of the law told them"? they should not just do what they did, but their "doctrine" was right, just not their actions. They where hypocrites. Often we as Christians have a lower standard of holiness then them from the OT. Yet they did not have the Holy Spirit as we do, and another thing that often blows me away is that Jesus said John baptist was the greatest man ever born of woman, greater the Moses, greater then Elijah, greater then Abraham.... yet the smallest of us Christians are greater then him....
and about tattos... if we are the temple of the holy spirit, i have a hard time picturing someone repainting the temple with some graffiti, should we treat our body's with less respect? i don't think so.
God bless you all
We need to know the God of the law. Jesus said, "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." Someone said on here that it is not necessary that we keep 100% of the law and I do agree but we need a spirit of submission to even the things we don't understand in the O.T.
We don't have to follow the way the Jews ate in the Bible or even eat (Kosher) today but they are much more healthy than we are! My best friend and her husband (Bill) went on vacation and Bill accidently ordered her Kosher food the entire vacation!! LOL At first she was aggravated at him but her meals ended up being much better than his and he had the diabetic menu.
My humble opinion is not written in stone and I am NOT talking about keeping the letter of the Law strenously. But I am encouraging any and all to read and know the God of the O.T., He and it (the Law) is the teacher who indeed leads us to Christ and once we are led to Christ, we should not forget Him.
That's one reason why I like listening to Art Katz... his sermons have taught me so much about the God of the O.T.
God bless you!!!
K_DAY wrote:
Maybe more to the heart of the original post, I have heard a number of people on this forum cite passages from the OT law when making an argument about why people shouldn't get tattoos.Are we still under that law regarding body markings? What is the determinant of which laws we still must follow?
That's what I've been trying to figure out. I'm not trying to get away with sin and I don't want to be under the Law, but I heard people try to convince others with OT passages that divorce and remarriage is OK. However, when asked about things like not having two types of fibers in your clothing they say that we don't need to do that.
If we use one part of a chapter and excuse another doesn't that nullify our argument?
Jordan
As you say, "Old Testament Scriptures must be seen and interpreted in the light of the NEW covenant."
And many NT principles were first introduced in the OT, especially by the OT prophets, which will help one in its understanding.
ginnyrose
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