I am dating a girl... in a very well known christian band, at least I thought that...

STFU- Speak Truth for UNSAVED (Otherwords- If your pretending to be holier than thou, better to just shut up)

First understand... I am a christian, born again, I Love Jesus, I Love God, we talk often. But im not gonna walk around acting like 21st century Jesus... Because im not, your not, we never will be. There was one Jesus, and it aint me or you.

So. Im seeing a girl, who is a major role in a major band. You probobally know who they are. Now let me tell you, they are mostly made up of family. And when they are in the limelight, and performing, they are holier than holy, I mean, they burp and fart innocense and prayer, they sweat perfection... and everyone smiles and shakes hands with people and signs autograghs. (all the while I might add, passing judgement on people, which is joked about on the ride home) The rest of the time, the adults who manage this motley crew because of their relation to them, are completely out of line in their roles as "Christian Leaders" they have marriages where the man fears the wife, the kids though mostly happy, are sometimes driven to hide out of fear from their... very, very happy one minute unbalanced the next, punishment. Although the band loves eachother, most of the time they cant stand eachother.

Looking from the inside, I see a group of individuals all trying to serve a God, but defeating themselves through much of their behavior with each other. Especially the parents dissapointing performances. I Love my Girl friend, and we very likely have a big future in store. Being that this is a popular band, holding what is basically a family together, even if the glue is fake sometimes... She wavers from wanting to leave, wanting to stay wanting to leave wanting to stay... Well, I want nothing to do with any of them really except her... because when I am around them I just feel like kicking myself in the forehead... So when we decide to marry, I dont think I could handle being close to the band/family at all... While she shouldnt have to leave her family... I dont think I should have to subject myself to something she only wants to be part of half the time anyway. That I want nothing to do with. Is it wrong, that I would expect, upon marriage, to flee the insanity with her leaving them family and record deal all far behind?

I am also concerned, her mother is a very controlling person and often disrespects her father by over riding him on several things, from car use to purchases to discipline... (of which there is very little, and when there is, she doesnt stick to her guns) My GF has many characteristics of her mom, and being that she grew up never knowing if her mom is cuttingly sarcastic to her or joking or angry, she is always on the offensive at any sign... the stress of her family and other relationships often rolls over on me as she will argue with me about anything...

When things are good, they are great, and its usually when she and I are together (Long Distance Relationship) at my parents house away from her environment) I would like to be with her when she is that person... but not the crazy girl she sometimes turns into under any stress... wild like her mom. She needs to understand that marriage with me, is not like marriage with her dad and mom.... I have no respect for her family or band, I will not be asking permission to marry her, because I love her and her only.

Anyways, you dont have to comment, but I feel, about... 2% better now...

I think you should perhaps talk to a pastor who knows both of you best.

However, with that said it seems like you are seeing enough red flags that are telling you that you should not pursue this relationship any more. Especially since you consider her a wild crazy woman when things get difficult. Your girlfriend is not two people... a sane person then an insane person. She's one person. And if you marry her, you will marry that one person, with the good and the ugly.

The true measure of a person's character is how they act during trials. And marriage is perhaps the ultimate trial. If the person you are considering marriage with cannot consistently get through a trial in a Christ-like manner, then you should plan on a divorce.

Thankyou... Very wise advice... The reason that we are still together is that I do Love her and step forward to meet the occassion when she is upset, particularly over her family matters. The Wild and Crazy is mostly with her family, and when she, on occassion, carries that on to me, she is appologetic. I just worry that in the future... I know many people say, if you want to know what your wife will be like, look at her mom... Well let me tell you, that does not excite me... I hold hope that perhaps she really is a much diff person... I just get scared when I see certain characteristics flare through... I think... what if we do marry, everything is great, then I find out, that she is doing what her mom does... I dont believe in divorce, but to avoid it, I would not want to be like her father... quietly enduring the madness on eggshells.

KingJimmy wrote:
I think you should perhaps talk to a pastor who knows both of you best.

However, with that said it seems like you are seeing enough red flags that are telling you that you should not pursue this relationship any more. Especially since you consider her a wild crazy woman when things get difficult. Your girlfriend is not two people... a sane person then an insane person. She's one person. And if you marry her, you will marry that one person, with the good and the ugly.

The true measure of a person's character is how they act during trials. And marriage is perhaps the ultimate trial. If the person you are considering marriage with cannot consistently get through a trial in a Christ-like manner, then you should plan on a divorce.

nice screen name, and it sure did it's job well startling me! :)
As crude as it sounds, genesis 2:24-25

24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

I think you should copy and paste what you just wrote here, to her.
I'm not married, i don't even have a girlfriend, but i believe that in this sort of relationship - because it says you will become one flesh, you will have to deal with issues such as this together. what better time would it be to do that than now? you don't want to deal with stuff like this by the time you get married.

by the way, we are all called to walk around like 21st century Jesus. Why do you think he said "He will do even greater things than these" in John 14. or the great commission in matthew 28:18 or

John 14:12

12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

John 14:23

23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25"All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

if i may, i would like to ask you to read the entire chapter of John 14. don't do it if you don't want to.
your brother in Christ,
stan

The Wild and Crazy is mostly with her family,

Consider if and when you get married, you will be part of her family.

I know many people say, if you want to know what your wife will be like, look at her mom...

This is generally true. I've seen my older sister become more and more like my mom since she's been married. Not to mention since she's had her own kids!

If the person you are considering marriage with cannot consistently get through a trial in a Christ-like manner, then you should plan on a divorce.

mark 10:6-9
6"But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.'[a] 7'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[b] 8and the two will become one flesh.'[c] So they are no longer two, but one. 9Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

I don't mean to be a mean bible-bashing type, but that's what it says.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not advocating divorce. I don't believe in divorce save for adultery. I'm simply saying that this brother will be setting himself up for one if he's not careful. His marriage would only be one in the technical sense of it.

Hello...

I will be praying. It is wise to remember that there are no such things as "super-spiritual" Christians. No matter how well respected a person (including a minister) might be, they are still prone to the same temptations and problems as the rest of us. When a person goes to great lengths to disguise their true fallible humanity, it could be an indication of deep lying pride or even sin. I know that there are Christian leaders who oppose anyone who will not "submit" to their authority. That can be a dangerous situation.

I am glad that the Bible includes the biographies of many "great" individuals -- including all of their strengths AND flaws. We often learn as much from a person's mistakes and flaws as we do from their successes. My dad used to admonish me to "Learn from others' mistakes -- instead of making all of them yourself!"

Like I said, I will be praying. God knows this situation much more clearly than any of us. I pray that He may be glorified through it all. After all, He will still be glorified by everyone in the end.

:-)

STFU,

As I read your post, all I could think of is find another girl! Really! Not only will you be marrying the girl, but her family comes in that package. You will have to deal with them later on...all the time. They will not go away. And if your wife gets aggravated at you, she just might side with her family and leave you set, high and dry. So what will your options be? A very lonely man at the least.

When things are good, they are great, and its usually when she and I are together (Long Distance Relationship) at my parents house away from her environment) I would like to be with her when she is that person... but not the crazy girl she sometimes turns into under any stress...

Sir, this is all part of the package...you cannot separate it, unfortunately. I personally know of a man who married a lady because she was so charming, fun to be with. He thought it would be nice to be maried to such a girl. Well, they married and she was one big pain to live with, made life very miserable for her DH and children.

Now if the girl would separate from her family, be independant of them for a long time where she could separate herself from their lifestyle, thinking habits, behaviors, perhaps there may be room for reconsideration. Notice I said a long time....unless the girl does this she is on a road to disaster and do not consider yourself as the knight in shining armour waiting to rescue a hapless maiden!

Brother, you are seeing red flags: listen to them! God put them there for a reason!

ginnyrose

Keith Daniel told an interesting story in one of his sermons that I think applies here. He said that when he asked for permission to marry Jenny (I think that is her name) that her father told him to take a close look at Jenny's mom and see if he liked what he saw because in 20 years that is exactly what Jenny would be like. I believe from my experience with my own wife that that statement is at least in part true. That is not to discount what the Lord can do in changing the heart of a person but we are very much the product of our parents.

I wish I could remember the name of that sermon, you should listen to it, perhaps someone else here will remember it.

In Christ,

Ron

STFU- Speak Truth for UNSAVED

:-o I'm glad you told us what your screen name means, because I remember when I was unsaved that "STFU" means something completely different in a secular chatroom/ forum.

Thankyou Ron... I really appreciate your response... I am only 22 and with so many things in life, jobs career paths, choices choices choices... it can be a bit overwhelming at times. With prayer and great guidance from folks like yourself, I am blessed.

Thankyou

Speak Truth...particularly to her!

If you really love her, you will stick around to see if she is tied by the bellybutton to her family, or not. But only a lot of time, like several years, is likely to show these things. And at your age, that will be very hard, particularly in a long distance relationship.

Oddly, for those that think that women turn out to be like their mothers, the opposite can be true (it was in my case), but your girlfriend seems to be taking after her mom, whom you can't stand when it comes out in your girlfriend. Or maybe you can't stand the whole family. It doesn't matter.

The controlling, emotional manipulation that causes people to walk on eggshells around you, describe my mother to a T. And what that control was about was fear. She was a terrified, insecure person who had to be in control, and manipulate her husband and family, to feel stable.

We tip-toed around her emotions. And yes, she was critical, great at talking and criticizing people behind their backs (sounds like your girlfriend's family, talking about people, and laughing all the way home). I hate to say it, but a critical spirit is very hard to get over.

At 22, it's hard to sort your emotions out from your pheromones. And love hurts so much, and when in love, we can hurt each other even more than we help them.

For your girlfriend, the major test will not be whether she can adapt to you, but can she even stand on her own two feet? Without you, and without family? And then there's that famous band problem...so hard for any people to walk away from unless they have heard a big calling from God to do something else.

Oddly, after reading the thread, I wanted to say something encouraging to you, but instead, I seem to be explaining why the others said what they did.

In my family, my brother and I switched gender representatives. I became like my dad, on purpose, and considering the circumstances. My brother inadvertantly became like my mon, even though he hated her!

And at 55, the poor man is still controlling and manipulating in his own blustery way, walking in fear and insecurity although for different reasons, and I don't see anyone but God changing him, and then only if he will accept God.

The question remains. Will you tell her the truth, even if she, being in a suddenly tense situation, freaks out on you? And if she does hear you, can you wait for her to find her own footing? For wives and mothers do have to handle things, and can't leave it all to their husbands when they come home.

And that long distance relationship? They tend to drag out the resolution of the relationship, sadly, because you don't see enough of each other to settle any problems before you marry.

Frankly, the only way I see it working for you is for your girlfriend to move very close to you, get a real life kind of job, and find out who she is. And even then, she's got all those years of training by her mom to overcome.

You know the problems, you've seen all the red flags, but your heart doesn't want to let go.
Tell her the truth, and let her make the decision for you. A real life. A real adulthood. A real, not fantasy-come-true job. And a real relationship. And unfortunately, a real hard look at her family, and herself.

Otherwise, my dear bro, I don't think your troubled friendship will ever turn into a workable relationship and marriage. And even then, you'll still be stuck with her family.

Praying for you,

I dont think I should have to subject myself to something ...

Why not?

[i]Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil; rejoiceth not in unrighteousness, but rejoiceth with the truth;
beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall be done away; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall be done away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part: but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things. For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I have been known. But now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; and the greatest of these is love.[/i] 1Co 13:4-13

Will be the dissenting voice and throw out the word of caution. To draw off others experience and put that into the grid work of consideration is one thing, for those experiences to be made case study and application I would take with a very small grain of salt. They are not you or your situation, there is far too much that is not being stated for people here to advise outcomes. The dynamics will aways be changing and if your trust is fully in the Lord, it is to Him I would look for advice more than any other, talking all things even of the good Brethren and their intentions here in serious prayer and not be swayed except by what the Lord intimates to you. Not all applications are transferable. It can be a bit unnerving to wonder at where our faith in the Lord is sometimes.

The reason for saying all this is because experience has continually proven that the Lords way's are not our ways and that means even amongst our own kind. Consider ...

[i]Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.[/i] 1Pe 4:19

If you truly love her, love will overcome all things and you will endure whatever is necessary if that is so. Here is my little tid bit of advice, something I picked up along the way that startled my presuppositions ... It was a seemingly innocuous testimony of sorts given by a woman who was having difficulties with her husband and I seem to recall it was a caller on a Christian radio program or the like. She had been praying earnestly that the Lord would change her husband and somehow it was inverted back onto herself and I forget just how but the emphasis that struck was that she had it all wrong and began to pray ...

"[i]Lord, change [b]me[/b][/i]"

There is enough in your account here that it would be worth taking a long hard look at this and perhaps to make it a prayer of your own. You will be quite surprised at the outcome and what you are capable of 'enduring' right on through life.