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Raising Financial Support?

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Isaiah64 May 11, 2007

This is an issue I have been struggling with for a while now. I know there are those whose "ministries" are of the flesh. They are the ones who are constantly asking for money, sending letters saying things like "Without your generous support, this ministry will fall!"
"Then let it fall!" as one preacher put it. If it's of the flesh it will crumble, but if it's of God it will stand.
But is there a biblical basis for raising support for your ministry? If the Lord has called you, are you to ask for the help of men? Or are you to simply to make your needs known to Him only? I don't mean accepting gifts that brothers and sisters in Christ generously give out of the abundance of their hearts. I'm talking about going around and asking for money. I've heard testimonies from different men. Some say to ask only the Lord; others say that it seems more spiritual to only ask God, but sometimes He would have you "make your needs known." It is unclear for me right now from the Scriptures. Anyone have thoughts on this/bible verses to back them up???
Thanks.

sermonindex May 11, 2007

While preaching the gospel and ministering to the congregation, Apostle Paul worked as a tentmaker to pay for his clothing, food, and lodging and gave his surplus to the poor (ACTS 18:3, I COR 9, II THESS 3:8). This way, he couldn't be bought or compromised by wealthier members of the congregation. It also meant he wasn't a parasite to the poorer brethren. Supporting yourself while learning, preaching, and ministering is a win/win situation.

For further information on how effective (if less glamorous) "tentmaking" is in missionary work today, check out [url=http://www.globalopps.org/faq/index.htm]Missionary Tentmaking (Work & Preach)[/url]

D
death2self May 11, 2007

Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I believe that God pays for what He orders. There's a wonderful synposis of the life of George Müller at [url=http://www.authenticchristianity.net/Authentic%20Christianity/Text/George%20Muller%20-%20A%20Study%20of%20the%20Principles%20of%20His%20Prayer-Life.pdf]George Müller: A Study of the Principles of His Prayer Life[/url]

Another excellent book to see how this looked in the day-to-day life was in the life of Rees Howells in the book entitled Rees Howells: Intercessor which is an incredible book and a reflection what I believe is to be the normative Christian life.

Blessings to you dear one...

sermonindex May 11, 2007

This is thread a must read on the subject:

[b]Christian Ministry Finances: Zac Poonen[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16685&forum=35&6

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Isaiah64 May 11, 2007

Thank you all for the help and for the links. That about answered my questions.

sermonindex May 12, 2007

While preaching the gospel and ministering to the congregation, Apostle Paul worked as a tentmaker to pay for his clothing, food, and lodging and gave his surplus to the poor (ACTS 18:3, I COR 9, II THESS 3:8). This way, he couldn't be bought or compromised by wealthier members of the congregation. It also meant he wasn't a parasite to the poorer brethren. Supporting yourself while learning, preaching, and ministering is a win/win situation.

i agree completely with what Corey said. except, i want to share something i saw when i was in college. i went to a christian school for college. i knew a guy that focused on ministry of the gospel after college. he double majored in bible and computer engineering, but sadly the attitude that he was doing that with was not all that christian. it was more of i don't want/need anything from anybody. ok maybe i should stop talking about someobdy else(well, i will include this- i was no better by the way. i studied engineering for the same reason- just to prove to others that i was just as smart and intelligent as they)... what a crock...now it's a mockery to me. for this reason, i don't know if i could ever go back to that profession again. something prideful rises up in me when i am doing that. sadly, there were plenty in my class including me that felt that way. all this to say- we would be wise to do it with humilty. i am really convinced part of the reason revival is not here is because the cost in the physical, spiritual, emotional, financial ways would be great, - just look at the current revival in Uganda... and what a dear price they had to pay to get there.... Obote, Idi Amin, AIDS not to mention the colonization years. yeah, i always wonder- does it mean no job for me because gas will be too expensive for me to deliver papers with my car? no delicacies because we would barely have enough for the regular essentials? we know what the cost is spiritually or emotionally well. tears, more tears, reproaches....
i am not saying i am better than all of you,- actually i am more worse off than just about anybody here... because i am still trying to count the cost. i don't believe one could overcome without counting the cost.

N
Nile May 12, 2007


sb1175 wrote:

i agree completely with what Corey said. except, i want to share something i saw when i was in college. i went to a christian school for college. i knew a guy that focused on ministry of the gospel after college. he double majored in bible and computer engineering, but sadly the attitude that he was doing that with was not all that christian. it was more of i don't want/need anything from anybody. ok maybe i should stop talking about someobdy else(well, i will include this- i was no better by the way. i studied engineering for the same reason- just to prove to others that i was just as smart and intelligent as they)... what a crock...now it's a mockery to me. for this reason, i don't know if i could ever go back to that profession again. something prideful rises up in me when i am doing that. sadly, there were plenty in my class including me that felt that way. all this to say- we would be wise to do it with humilty. i am really convinced part of the reason revival is not here is because the cost in the physical, spiritual, emotional, financial ways would be great, - just look at the current revival in Uganda... and what a dear price they had to pay to get there.... Obote, Idi Amin, AIDS not to mention the colonization years. yeah, i always wonder- does it mean no job for me because gas will be too expensive for me to deliver papers with my car? no delicacies because we would barely have enough for the regular essentials? we know what the cost is spiritually or emotionally well. tears, more tears, reproaches....
i am not saying i am better than all of you,- actually i am more worse off than just about anybody here... because i am still trying to count the cost. i don't believe one could overcome without counting the cost.

Thank you for your testimony and wisdom brother.

U
UniqueWebRev May 12, 2007

Brother,

Considering that Jesus and the Apostles lived in a tribal agricultural society, with rules on hospitality, the problem is usually trying to translate the Bible into modern terms.

In the Judaic culture of the time, you could go to virtually anyone of your family, no matter how distant, or how linked and relinked by marriage, and stay a minimum of three days. If you got along well, and supllies were plentiful, you could stay forever.

Jesus, when he sent the disciples out said:
[color=993300] 9. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10. Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
11. And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12. And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13. And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14. And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.[/color]

Jesus himself lay down the rules. Ask to see who is worthy....

The Greek has it thus:

Strong's Ref. # 574

Romanized haplos
Pronounced hap-loce'

adverb from GSN0573 (in the objective sense of GSN0572); bountifully;

KJV--liberally.

In other words, you don't go to the poor for your support.

Yes, you can ask, for food, for lodging, for basic necessities, in exchange for what you give.

If you are a pastor, completely devoted to gving your time to the needs of your congregation, and live modestly, they should support you to the extent that they can. And if they don't want a pastor, well, you get a job and evangelize on the side.

But when it comes to evangelizing, in a culture where there is no rule of hospititality, no binding of kinship, then one does as Paul did. He did without, or he worked for his needs. He also did without a wife, or children.

But Paul went outside his culture, to the gentiles.

In our world, Christians are not welcome as they once were, and yes, people are tired of being hit up for money for what they don't understand that they have an obligation to do.

One preacher I knew taught thusly : Don't give me any money until you are taught of me. Then, when you know my value, you must give what God places on your heart. And he taught that giving is a blessing to the giver, even if that blessing is spiritual alone. Not a prosperity guy, just a true believer in the word of God, and very good at trusting God for his daily bread.

Everything was open and above board, and nothing was hidden that was done with the money, because trust is so hard to build with the corruption that is normal to mankind, and so prevalent now.

He passed the plate twice a service - once for the church building that was soon paid off, and then became missions and charity projects. The second time he passed the plate was for his personal support.

And yes, the support did become generous, because he taught well, and became valued. He gave half of it away after the first few years, and forbade any of his very successful people to give more than 50% to him, or even to the church charities, because he had more than enough, and God would want them to enjoy their success, since they were obviously not wed to the dollar.

One problem with this approach. If you are called of God, and a good teacher, you still have to invest years before people will trust you, and you have to be willing to live with that. And your faith in God's provision must be absolute. You have to be willing to have nothing to have anything, and teach the Gospel. And this is a hard thing for a man with a young family, and a wife who didn't understand how hard it was going to be.

Of the ministries I know that follow this approach, several things are noticable. No building is built until the last cannot contain the growth. Everyone involved becomes and lives debt free, not even a mortgage or rent payment. It takes an average of ten years to get modestly comfortable support, then another ten years before one receives what God perceives is your due. And wives may have to work in the early years, or you won't survive to reach a place of trust with your congregation.

Not a happy situation unless the entire family is involved with the ministry, living and breathing it. It costs a lot. And it can cost you your calling or your family, your comfort and your pride, and sadly, these days is the only way it works. And frankly, even then, it only works if it is done in joy.

When it comes to approaching the wealthier Christians in your town, bring the matter to them as to a trusted friend, in complete honesty, simply laying out the problem. They will decide for you what your personal cost will be. And you have to talk over that cost with God first, and your wife second.

And lest you think I am being unduly cavalier about what your wife may think, God to me comes first.

And I am a woman.

Blessings,

Forrest

sermonindex May 12, 2007

UniqueWebRev said

When it comes to approaching the wealthier Christians in your town, bring the matter to them as to a trusted friend, in complete honesty, simply laying out the problem. They will decide for you what your personal cost will be.

But after he sees what side his bread's buttered, will he be so eager to preach the whole truth? Or will he pass over "it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven"? What if he offends his rich patrons with the unleavened message?

J
JoeGrey May 12, 2007

I realize that Isaiah64, who posted this thread, has already mentioned that his question was answered, but I thought to share this anyway...

Quoting from "Living with the Giants" Warren Wiersbe:

"DL Moody and Hudson Taylor...would disagree on the matter of financing the Lord's work. Both of them believed in prayer and trusting Go, but Taylor refrained from asking anybody for support. "When our work becomes a begging work, it dies," said Taylor. Moody, on the other hand, was bold in asking Christians for financial support and raised huge sums for Christian enterprises both in the US and the UK. While he greatly admired men like Hudson Taylor and George Muller, Moody felt that his own ministries operated by faith just as much as did theirs. He also felt, that sincere as they were, their emphasis on "making no appeals" was in itself an appeal. Thank God for men who can disagree without being disagreeable!"

Personally, I have made use of all... 1)Trusting God and making certain things known to Him and waiting for His supply thereof (He has been so faithful), 2)People has asked support for specific outreaches (on our behalf), 3)I receive a very small wage (far below my monthly expenses) for helping at a mission bakery and 3)I produce art as a tentmakers ministry.
What I think is, that there are times, reasons and seasons for all these and we should allow God to have His way!

D
dohzman May 13, 2007

Actually thoughs who have money don't lack in discernment generally speaking. They know all to well the value of having someone speak the truth in love to them, however whether they decide to take that truth and mix it with faith??? well that can be a whole other subject. Most pastors get to one of two extremes, either they soft sell the gospel and its claims to total committment inorder not offend thier flock, or they become to harsh in thier demands and actually fall into manipulation of the people given to thier care. It's a rare bird who possesses the balance to speak a word in season and that with a sense of conviction.

It needs to be mentioned that most of these men and women really do love people and want to help, in the journey they suffer great hurts at the hands of many who they have reached out to help. So like a person with a bruise who recoils at its being touched, these men and women often recoil at the thought of offending needlessly, so they try to exercise wisdom as they can. In the end though, I don't believe most wake up and say today I think that I will neglect to tell mr/mrs so and so the truth because I'm afraid they will stop thier support.

The seasoned pastor has seen God supply so often that he/she when speaking the truth or whole counsil as you put it, thier concern is more about the condition of thier own heart and how to deliver that heart/word in the wisdom of God, the wise makes knowledge exceptable, so that the hearers will be changed. There are a few hirelings out there, mostly just people who once had a burning desire for the glory of God and in life experiences lost that fire

U
UniqueWebRev May 13, 2007

The difficulty about being open and above board with your wealthy clients is to be honest and above board.

Of course you don't teach waht they want you to teach.

But you have to approach them with respect on how to solve the problem of financing the church, for they have business ability, or they wouldn't be successful.

Like I said, it only works if the whole thing is done by the whole church, and in joy, all living the same financial rules - no debt, alms freely given, and you have to pay for good teaching.

If you are not a good teacher, go work for a large ministry until you have honed your talents.
Just be careful not to be caught up in another's ministry.

Blessings,

Forrest

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