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The View of the Church through a Dream

R
RumbleBee May 12, 2007

On the night of May 6, 2007, I believe God gave this vision to me in a dream:

The atmosphere was black, ink-like – blacker than anything I could have ever imagined. It was close, and had an unusual heaviness that I could feel. Utter dread and terror was there – an evil. I couldn’t move or say anything because I was frozen with fear. I knew something was happening in that blackness but I couldn’t yet see or hear it.

Ahead of me in the distance, the scene was dramatically different, albeit late in the evening. It was dimly lit. Neither the sun nor the moon was visible, but the sound of people laughing, singing, carrying on simple conversations and pleasantries could be heard. The area was decorated with Chinese lanterns, small strands of lights were hung, music played as an undertone in the background, and tables were lavishly decorated and laden with more food and refreshments than any of the guests could possibly consume.

I could tell it was a gathering of people who knew each other, and shared a common bond or familiarity with one another. The attire was not formal, although a few dressed for the occasion. The night air seemed as though it was balmy because no one wore wraps or jackets. It was a garden party, but these people appeared completely unaware of the danger on its way. They were undaunted by the fact that the pitch-blackness surrounded them and butted up to the edge of the party area. I don’t know if they even noticed it.

The oppressiveness of the blackness drew my attention to it again and I could now see what the darkness had previously obscured. It was an animal that bore only faint resemblance to one for which great controversy has swirled in life.

This animal was lean - almost half-starved. I could see the outline of its ribcage and the sunken hollows around its hips. Its coat was sleek and black, and its eyes were dark, but there in the depths of those eyes, I saw a fiery hatred containing singularity of purpose. Its eyes glowed deeply like the smoldering glow given off by large logs in a fireplace fully consumed, but continuing to burn.

This animal I recognized as a wolf but it was not the beautiful, majestic and free animal one sees in pictures or on nature programs. This animal was not a pack hunter and its hunger was never satiated.

The dread I felt was not for me. I was an unnoticed observer in this dream. The dread I felt was for those people at the party. At some point, I realized the wolf had crossed the unseen, unmarked boundary line of the owner’s property and into the backyard. He crossed at a dead run and in a straight line. Nothing was going to turn him from his chosen course. He displayed no sign of fatigue, and made virtually no sound as he slipped through the night. His objective was clear. I knew his intent was to destroy and devour those people who appeared not to have a care in the world.

It was at this point the dream ended because I suddenly woke up …very disturbed.


It is said that dreams can take only fleeting moments to occur, and that we usually do not remember in great detail the content of those dreams, if anything at all. I can say that the second part of that statement for me is true. There have been only a handful of dreams that I can say with certainty what they were about. Out of those, none have held more clarity and definition than the dream I’ve laid out in the paragraphs above.

There is quite a bit of applicable symbolism in these short paragraphs.

The darkness that encompasses the scenes indicates sin in the world. Darkness hides or obscures sinful activities whether they are in thought or deed. Darkness is an absence of light and makes no allowance for clear vision. Darkness creates fear and dread of the unknown. Darkness also demonstrates a lack of God’s presence – a lack of true faith.


The dim light emanating from the party can represent man’s wisdom and “righteousness” - a manufactured holiness.
The setting was a garden party. Typically, garden parties are held for statesmen, royalty, and social elites. Enormous amounts of preparation go into the planning and execution of these types of events, and the ambiance is a main ingredient of such an affair. In this interpretation, these people consider themselves elites – they have “arrived” as Christians and they haven’t the desire to venture outside of their own social circles. Therefore, they take no thought for anyone outside of their spheres of influence, and have no regard for lost and dying souls. They have no motivation to reach out to others in need, and as long as they are comfortable, well fed, entertained, and validated in their positions, life for them, is good – nothing else matters. Complacency and apathy has set in. The balmy atmosphere represents a situation in which the spirit of conviction is absent in any messages preached. Comfort is of paramount importance. They’re convinced that their brand of spirituality is sufficient. They have a form of righteousness, but because the party is taking place outside, the implication is that people who attend church can still be outside the Will of God.

This is where many of our congregations are in terms of their walk with Christ. They think once they’ve been saved, and have found inclusion, the job is finished – it is the notion of a “once-saved / always-saved” religion, which is not biblical. This is an appealing idea, but it’s a dangerous doctrine to live by. We have eternal security as long as we stay within the confines of God’s laws.
Some people even put a different spin on that same idea. They think that simply at the moment of Christ’s crucifixion, all sins were automatically blotted out – that there is no personal responsibility to actively accept His forgiveness and seek His Will, because there is no sin to forgive. Christ was the propitiation for sin, but until we approach the throne in brokenness, His sacrifice cannot be applied to our lives and purpose.

The setting can also lead to yet another interpretation. The shepherd of the flock has abandoned them, or has possibly even joined them in needing a guide. Although they’ve been led to green pastures and are, for a time, grazing on the bounty set before them, they are extremely vulnerable to attack without a guardian to protect them and lead them out of danger. The light they used to have has faded because they have been seduced by things of the world and are following and perpetuating false doctrine.

Some of our congregations have been abandoned by the ministers in their pulpits because the ministers have become more missions-minded, whether out of a true heart for missions, or out of the personal recognition they can gain from demonstrating all their works in that area. The appeal of listing numerous accomplishments overshadows genuine soul-winning. The local church has been, and is being neglected.

Some of our congregations have lost their shepherd because he has lost his way, his drive, his heart for ministry, or has found himself discouraged and only goes through the motions for the sake of a steady paycheck. In many cases, the anointing of the Holy Spirit on the man’s ministry has never been offered and, although he may be sincere, he has led his congregation down the wrong path through faulty teaching. Not enough of the flock is grounded in, nor studies the Word themselves to discern the remedy for this type of a situation. They are unable to hear the voice of God speaking. Therefore, they begin to equate the simple act of attending church with salvation. The definition of sin and resulting judgment are not an integral part of the ministry of the church, so it is salvation that is broadly defined.

In both interpretations, spiritual darkness and sin has crept up on them unawares and is at the door. Sin has not been beaten back. Sin is not recognized, but it is embraced. It’s like the difference between a coral snake and a scarlet king snake. One is venomous and the other is not, but knowing the difference is vital to survival.

The description of the wolf is the most vivid because he stands out in stark contrast to the happy, capricious guests at the party. His appearance and manner is troubling - unnatural. He looks emaciated. He’s hungry but he possesses a beautiful black coat, and he’s running at top speed with a deliberate destination in mind. His gait is measured and his path does not jog.

To rationalize it in our own understanding, a starving creature would not have the strength or the stamina to move as quickly as this one did. He would also not be able to eat a great deal at one sitting because of his starving condition. The body could not possibly absorb large quantities of food. This creature should not have had such a luxurious fur coat because of his malnourished condition. It should be dull and patchy. Logically, the coat of this animal should appear as unhealthy as the substance of his frame.

Wolves, in general, are pack hunters and social beings, but shy around humans. They work in hierarchical cooperation with one another. The wolf in this dream was neither social nor part of a group. He was alone. He was neither the Alpha nor Omega, but in his world, he was both.

This wolf symbolizes Satan in his natural element. He possesses a burning hatred of God and His people. This wolf’s purpose is to seek out the weak of the flock, as well as those who are ignorant of danger - to devour all. Until completely satisfied, he will always have that hunger. The sleekness of his coat is significant because it suggests that this wolf is not a sick animal. He is as healthy as he ever was. He has feasted well on all those individuals he’s kept from turning to God. But his appetite is focused on The Bride of Christ who is to be holy - wholly without spot or wrinkle.

In the dream, I mentioned the point at which the wolf had crossed a boundary line. Because it was dark and there were no obvious barriers the creature had to negotiate, the boundary itself was an implied boundary. I think this is significant in the meaning of the dream because the church has been so soothed and massaged by popular culture and anemic preaching to such a degree that it is difficult to distinguish where the world’s boundary ends and the church’s boundary begins. Satan has had his way with the world. His final and ultimate goal is to destroy God’s most treasured possession – His Bride.

The church used to have absolute boundaries. She used to hedge herself in the Word of God, but she has acquiesced to social, political, economic, and moral pressures.

The Bridegroom has not yet returned and I’m afraid when He does, He won’t find His bride ready. She has not redeemed the days wisely in preparation for His return. We will all stand at the judgment and give an account of what we’ve done and for the motivation in which we’ve done it. It is not God’s desire that any should perish, but He will let us if we so choose.

I wish for a great conviction to fall on us - one that drives us to our knees in prayer, not only for ourselves because we are undone, but to offer up sincere, agonizing, intercessory prayer for lost souls. Christ needs obedient people to pray so fervently as to stagger the gates of Hell. Prayer is the most effective weapon we have in our arsenal, but we don’t even know how to pray – we don’t take the time to seek God’s face or ask to be given the mind of Christ. Churches don’t stress the importance of it anymore.

I don’t mind telling you that I am disturbed because of the lack of anointed, God-called, Spirit-filled men who are compelled and dare to preach holiness and judgment - who will stand in pulpits across this nation and proclaim the gospel, being concerned only for what God’s opinion is of them. We have some, but they are few and far between, and we should thank God for them. We should be in prayer for God to raise men up to lead the flocks in the pathways of righteousness.

To some, this dream may be the foolish ramblings of a troublemaker with radical, legalistic ideas. Others may actually see the correlation between the symbolism and the condition of the church today, at this moment. They may see it, but aren’t alarmed by it. Not yet. They feel Christ won’t return for a good, long time. Things need to get really bad before He steps out on that cloud to bring to a close this earthly existence.

Christ may not come back for hundreds of years, but we aren’t guaranteed the next minute. At that time, will we be prepared, or will we be found then scrambling for the oil to trim our lamps? How much darker does it have to get before we decide? We are neither hot nor cold, and God doesn’t take fence sitters. We must pick a side. Whatever side we choose is the one in which we will spend eternity.

Mrs. Carol Eads
Houston, Texas

sermonindex May 14, 2007

Hi Carol

You don't really need to apologise for this dream or justify it - it speaks for itself and is so tragically true.

That is indeed the state of the Western Church in these days.

How many are awake and aware of what is happening?

How many grieve at the blindness and idolatry even in the "born-again" areas of the Church?

Dark days are coming, but so few are aware of the Spirit's warnings.

Yours in Christ

Jeannette

S
staff May 14, 2007

Hi rumble bee,
I believe that God reveals uses dreams widely so as to your dream I have no commment but below is just your own personal belief their is as much arguement for "once saved always saved "as to the arguement of you can loose your're salvation.I mean take staying in the confines of Gods laws,how legalistic is that!Can you list all the laws I have to stay within.Do I have to keep every one?
I am not saying that sinning as no consequences,nor I am saying that you cant loose rewards but I am saying "where sin abounds grace abounds even more" and it takes alot to loose your're salvation if at all possible.
[size=x-small][color=0000FF]This is where many of our congregations are in terms of their walk with Christ. They think once they’ve been saved, and have found inclusion, the job is finished – it is the notion of a “once-saved / always-saved” religion, which is not biblical. This is an appealing idea, but it’s a dangerous doctrine to live by. We have eternal security as long as we stay within the confines of God’s laws.[/color][/size]


However this does not make the dream invalid but it does shade how you interpret it,
rgds staff

R
RumbleBee May 15, 2007

Hello Staff,

Thank you for your response.
The thing I can say about the confines of God’s laws is that they are His divine laws, not man’s.
He’s the one that has defined sin.
“Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4). To further illustrate that we separate ourselves from the Father, John 3:8 tells us that whoever commits sin is of the devil.
The answer to the question you asked is, yes. We are commanded to keep all of God’s laws as delivered by Christ.

Rumblebee

P
PJ47 May 15, 2007

Thank you for posting the dream and interpretation, it confirmed many things the Holy Spirit has been showing me.

I've taken the liberty of copying it..and would like to send it to a few close brothers and sisters in the Lord, with your permission. Like myself, they have been shown similar things as well.

As I read more then post, will check back to make sure of having an ok from you, before sending it to my friends.

God bless...

E
enid May 15, 2007

Noticed that PJ47 has copied it, so have I.

For me, dream or no dream, it is so transparent.

The Church, I believe, is in a worse condition than we could even possibly imagine.

Much darker than we know.

Also, I don't believe once saved always saved.

That is yet another man made teaching and goes wholly against scripture.

One example in scripture is found in Hebrews 10v38, 'Now the just shall live by faith, but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.

Verse 39 warns of those who draw back to perdition, perdition is destruction.

Thanks for sharing this with us.

God bless.

U
UniqueWebRev May 15, 2007

Deleted - wrong thread!

R
RumbleBee May 15, 2007

Dear PJ47,

Yes, you have my permission to send it to whom you like.
We are to be encouragers of each other and are to work to bring others to our Lord.
You have indeed encouraged me by asking.

Thank you so much, God Bless you as well.

Rumblebee

R
RumbleBee May 19, 2007

We need your prayers now more than ever for this matter.
We just handed over to our pastor a copy of the dream and our interpretation exactly as it is listed at the start of this post.
We would also appreciate anyone’s input on how we should prepare or proceed because this will result in a meeting with the pastor himself.
Our prayer now is to lift him up so he will be up to the task of taking the church to the level it is meant to be.

We appreciate your prayers and advice.

Carol Eads

sermonindex May 19, 2007

Hi Carol!

I just wanted to stop by and encourage you, I will be praying for him and you. I hope he comes through for you but if not, I pray your faith rests in Jesus Christ alone.

This is just Lisa's view, but one thing I've noticed in people is that our belief system is built like a wall. (I hope I explain this right and understandable). When someone comes along who shares truth we us, we MUST either keep one of our bricks or take it out of the wall. And the majority of the time, that one brick is the foundation for many other bricks and in order to believe the new truth or admit it's truth, several bricks must be taken out. Some people aren't willing to let their wall fall.

Let me explain on a more personal level, when I confronted my ex-husband about certain issues in our marriage, I saw it in his eyes - he almost admitted the truth but then he knew that in order to admit one thing, he would have to had admit to several other things. I watched his eyes go cold as he denied anything and I knew he had chosen his path. I also saw literally almost the same thing with the pastor where I used to go to church when I confronted him about some things I knew. I'm not saying your pastor has lied!!! I was just trying to explain how I've come to notice how people behave when the truth comes knocking on their door!

And if you're pastor doesn't embrace the truth the Lord has allowed you to see, be patient with him because in order to believe this new truth you've posed to him, it could be possible that so many things he has based his ministry on may have to change. He may not be willing (right now) to do consider that.

Hopefully, he'll take the leap of faith! But if he doesn't, it doesn't mean you have to leave your church. Pray for him and give him time to digest what's he's learned and to pray about it all and most importantly - give God time to work in your pastor's heart and mind - and we all know that God doesn't get overly excited about anything that we do!! LOL Nor does God rush into things. And I may be barking up the wrong tree here but if the devil did tempt you to leave, then it might take even MORE years for your pastor to this new belief.

Patience is the name of the game! And it's one of the fruits of the Spirit!! I'm sorry if I barked up the wrong tree, your pastor sounds like he's a good man and willing to read. There are so many that aren't.

Yours truly in the Lord (from Andrew Bonar!),
Lisa


R
RumbleBee May 20, 2007

Hi Lisa,

I truly appreciate what you've said.
It helps me put the issue in perspective and I thank you for your wisdom and advice.
Thank you so much for taking the time to consider our situation and respond so thoughtfully.

Carol

R
RumbleBee Jun 2, 2007

To give everyone an update, my husband and I have an appointment with the pastor July 7, 2007.
He's read everything and we are meeting to discuss this directly.
We are in prayer every night at 8:00, along with some of our other church members, that feel the need for the Holy Spirit to move in our midst.
If you'd like please join us to pray at 8:00 for your church and ours. I must say, your prayers are most coveted.

Your sister in Christ,

Carol Eads

U
UniqueWebRev Jun 4, 2007

Carol,

This dream is very clear in it's symbolism, and should be shared with any who will listen to you.

I don't recall very many dreams at all, but when I recall a detailed one with lots of symbolism, I pay attention.

I will pray that your pastor will take it very seriously, since it is a very clear portrait of exactly what is going on.

As for not being in the last days, well, who can believe that with Israel back at home?

And frankly, I'd just as soon be home now, if only God would let me.

I hate living through all this, and what I see is what you have seen.

Oh, Jesus, come quickly!

Blessings,

Forrest


PS> Sorry for the acidental post earlier - I thought I had said something to the point the first time!

C
ChrisJD Jun 9, 2007

Hi everyone.

The Lord Jesus said


[b][color=660033]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. [/color][/b]


He said His sheep follow Him.


God commanded the children of Israel to


"...make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:"


Saying also

"...it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring. That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God."


The Lord Jesus said His sheep hear His voice, and they follow Him.

But unto the children of Israel He said


[i]...that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring[/i]


But Christ says His sheep follow Him.

[b][color=000000]And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left. [/color][/b]


[b][color=660033]...and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.[/color][/b]


A living Head. A living Saviour. A living Lord.


sermonindex Jun 9, 2007

Sis, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but I believe your dream was from The Lord, but may I just say there's two sides to most all prophecy.

Most times, in the O.T. it was for 'then' and for the 'future' at the same time. (So God could condense THE WORD to a size we could carry to Church :)

I appreciate your interpretation and am not taking away from it ... but again, I believe it's much broader than just for The Church.

It's for America and corperate/political/relious folks too and the people of this nation - besides Israel.

When even Dobson, of all people, have all these Messianic and Christian prophecy scholars on for a Whole Week, two weeks ago, saying we're going to war with Iran, in one way or another and using Eze. 38 and them saying (which I've heard from politcal sources before), that if that happens, "China" and "Russia" will join in against us and Israel ... That we and they will be hit. That God will save Israel, though later they have to deal with 'the man' that's coming in Christ's place, but we will take a blow - especially economically.
These are things I've heard for 20 yr.s from politcal folks also, so it's not just those prophecy folks and I'm not Pre-Trib.

We've, as a nation, have used the Chinese system of slave labor to produce most of our goods and have given them most of the technology they have, including war-technology.
Even all the Christian book store items are made there. Even Kinkade's stuff, etc. etc..
How very sad. Look at all of our flags being made there also ... and they are some of the worst on Christian persecution and civil rights violations. But the Christians have them make their 'stuff' and they are granted most favored nation statis, despite what they're doing there to the poor humans.

These are just a few verses that went with your dream, below.
There are many more verses that would go along with this judgment on US and why, but I can't post them all ... but I think you could piece things together from these, being pointed at us and Israel. I see them more pointed at us, but not because I'm Replacement Theology or anything. I explained about Israel's future.
We've had all the Power and the greatest merger of the 'elite in business' with government, though our motherland has too.
We're the ones who were suppose to be a Righteous nation and spread His Word and govern by His decrees and what have we done with "China", just for one ?

The "chinese lanterns" ... the "garden" party ... and as you said, these people you would think were dignitaries or the elite, that I agree would be both in this nation.

These verses show the 'merger' between big-business, politics and the Church or those called by His name, who have gone apostate, putting their trust in Princes, as the Word says and love this present evil world and the 'things' in it ... comforts, etc..

Heavy stuff sis. If you are a 'patriot', I pray you can understand where our real citizenship really is. Preach The Word and righteousness, Amen to that.

I'm not one to believe that very many 'dreams' are worth much. But hold on to His Word alone and stay humble.

For prayer ...

Jer 5:4 Therefore I said, Surely these are poor; they are foolish: for they know not the way of the LORD, nor the judgment of their God. Jer 5:5 I will get me unto the great men, and will speak unto them; for they have known the way of the LORD, and the judgment of their God: but these have altogether broken the yoke, and burst the bonds. Jer 5:6 Wherefore a lion out of the forest shall slay them, and[b] a wolf of the evenings shall spoil them[/b], a leopard shall watch over their cities: every one that goeth out thence shall be torn in pieces: because their transgressions are many, and their backslidings are increased.
Jer 5:12 They have belied the LORD, and said, It is not he; neither shall evil come upon us; neither shall we see sword nor famine:
Jer 5:13 And the prophets shall become wind, and the word is not in them: thus shall it be done unto them.
Jer 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.
Jer 5:15 Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the LORD: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say.
Jer 5:16 Their quiver is as an open sepulcher, they are all mighty men.
Jer 5:17 And they shall eat up thine harvest, and thy bread, which thy sons and thy daughters should eat: they shall eat up thy flocks and thine herds: they shall eat up thy vines and thy fig trees: they shall impoverish thy fenced cities, wherein thou trustedst, with the sword.
Jer 5:18 Nevertheless in those days, saith the LORD, I will not make a full end with you.
Jer 5:19 And it shall come to pass, when ye shall say, Wherefore doeth the LORD our God all these things unto us? then shalt thou answer them, Like as ye have forsaken me, and served strange gods in your land, so shall ye serve strangers in a land that is not yours.
Jer 5:20 Declare this in the house of Jacob, and publish it in Judah, saying,
Jer 5:21 Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
Jer 5:22 Fear ye not me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at my presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?
Jer 5:23 But this people hath a revolting and a rebellious heart; they are revolted and gone.
Jer 5:24 Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest.
Jer 5:25 Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withheld good things from you.
Jer 5:26 For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.
Jer 5:27 As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich.
Jer 5:28 They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked: they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge.
Jer 5:29 Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD: shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?
Jer 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
Jer 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Eze 22:24 Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.
Eze 22:25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
Eze 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they showed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.
Eze 22:27 Her princes in the midst thereof are like [b]wolves[/b] ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.
Eze 22:28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered mortar, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.
Eze 22:29 The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.
Eze 22:30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.
Eze 22:31 Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord GOD.

Zep 3:1 Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city!
Zep 3:2 She obeyed not the voice; she received not correction; she trusted not in the LORD; she drew not near to her God.
Zep 3:3 Her princes within her are roaring lions; her judges are [b]evening wolves;[/b] they gnaw not the bones till the morrow.
Zep 3:4 Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law.
Zep 3:5 The just LORD is in the midst thereof; he will not do iniquity: every morning doth he bring his judgment to light, he faileth not; but the unjust knoweth no shame.
Zep 3:6 I have cut off the nations: their towers are desolate; I made their streets waste, that none passeth by: their cities are destroyed, so that there is no man, that there is none inhabitant.
Zep 3:7 I said, Surely thou wilt fear me, thou wilt receive instruction; so their dwelling should not be cut off, howsoever I punished them: but they rose early, and corrupted all their doings.

Hab 1:8 Their horses also are swifter than the leopards, and [b]are more fierce than the evening wolves[/b]: and their horsemen shall spread themselves, and their horsemen shall come from far; they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat.

Could have posted whole chpt.s but this is enough I believe. Was hard enough to post these, for many reasons.


Shalom!

sermonindex Jun 9, 2007


RumbleBee wrote:
To give everyone an update, my husband and I have an appointment with the pastor July 7, 2007.
He's read everything and we are meeting to discuss this directly.
We are in prayer every night at 8:00, along with some of our other church members, that feel the need for the Holy Spirit to move in our midst.
If you'd like please join us to pray at 8:00 for your church and ours. I must say, your prayers are most coveted.

Your sister in Christ,
Carol Eads


Carol,

I printed it out and reread your dream and then reread it again. I'd like to ask you to prayfully consider some questions that I have. You may not like me when you've read all this but I believe it needs to be said and I cannot be with the crowd on this one and urge you on with this meeting.

First, what is it exactly that you want your pastor to solve at this meeting? Or agree to? I noticed several quotes from your dream intrepretation:
The shepherd of the flock has abandoned them...
The local church has been is is being neglected...
Some of our congregations have lost their shepherd because he...
Although he may be sincere, he has led his congregation down the wrong path through faulty teaching...
Not enough of the flock is grounded in...
The church used to have absolute boundaries...

Just so you know, I do NOT disagree with these statements!! I just wanted to humbly ask if you think that YOUR pastor can solve all the problems above? Please remember that the Lord gave YOU this dream, if He wanted the pastor to do something different, He would have given it to your pastor.

This was your dream and you can't force it on anyone else or get upset it they don't accept it. I'm not saying that your pastor will or won't accept it but when we call for a meeting we need a solid idea of what exactly we expect from the other person and the outcome we want from that meeting. Has the Lord told you what to expect or what to do in that meeting? I beg you to only set a meeting AFTER the Lord shows you or tells you to make it.

Secondly, did the Lord ask you to do something specific with this dream? I may be wrong but I think that most times the Lord wants to see if we will be faithful to to just pray. Because I believe that if the enemy can get us worked up and rush in about how our pastor needs to accept this or that and if he doesn't, then yada yada yada is going to happen... If satan can do that, then he has us where he wants us and not praying about what the Lord wants us to be interceding about.

I believe that God gave you the dream, no doubt about that but (and I'm probably the lone voice here but) I'm concerned that satan is trying to use this dream to destroy 1. your witness 2. destroy and ruin your relationship with your local church and 3. also with your pastor.

Third, this one is personal but what part in all of this does your husband have? Is he as upset as you are or will he be the silent partner in the meeting with your pastor? If he is the silent partner, you might ruin his witness as well.

Please let God be disturbed about the state of the church, being disturbed is not our job. Our job is to love one another, pray, believe and trust! I do not doubt my God for a minute, His Bride will be ready when He comes!!! I'm not saying that I don't get worked up about all this, I do. The reason I know about getting worked up over an issue is because I have been there and lost a whole family of believers over an issue that I just knew I was right on (because the Lord showed me!!) but I didn't WAIT and let God work, I rushed in and stood for My Jesus and did all the work for Him and lost a church family all the while my ex-husband was a silent partner. Any witness he had was gone because he couldn't control his wife. Do I agree with that? No, but had I prayed and prayed and prayed and said, "God, I refuse to move until I see You move, period, or You tell me to move." I wouldn't have rushed in there. This is one of the ways how the enemy chews us up and spits us out. And then we wonder where the Lord was.

PS: There is a great sermon by J. Oswald Sanders titled, [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=11647&commentView=itemComments]Jericho Relationships[/url]. It's a keeper!

Take care, Carol. Please know that this was all said to warn in love.

C
ChrisJD Jun 10, 2007

Hi everyone.


I would like to connect with something that Intens4Him shared here


"...but had I prayed and prayed and prayed and said, "God, I refuse to move until I see You move, period, or You tell me to move." I wouldn't have rushed in there. This is one of the ways how the enemy chews us up and spits us out. And then we wonder where the Lord was."

Before this I had qouted from Numbers chapter 15, verse 38-40. This seems to be connected with what had happened in chapter 14. Verse 44 stands out especially.

Grace be with you all,

Chris

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RumbleBee Jun 10, 2007

Dear GrannieAnnie,

Thank you for posting what you did.
I am fully aware that this can be applied to the world as a whole.
For about 40+ years, I've seen a gradual deterioration of standards, not only in the world, but in the church (our church movement, for example). I believe the two are directly related.
The pressures from the world have resulted in the church accepting far more than it's been willing to, or should have accepted, at any time in history. The only way this could have happened is that the church has drifted farther and farther away from God's laws. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, so it can't be that he is the one that has moved or drifted.
Before we can go out into the world to change it, we must start in the church. The Bible teaches repentence and admonishes to stay on the narrow path. Unfortunately, it will call for some degree of starting all over again because of how far it has drifted away from the Word of God.

I appreciate the time you took to read and respond to the dream I posted. Please feel free to apply it in whatever manner God calls you to.

In Christ,

Carol Eads

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RumbleBee Jun 11, 2007

Dear Intense4Him,

In response to your post, I shall answer your questions in succession. But first, I wish to thank you for writing and gently warning about situations that can go awry. Your warning has been noted.

In answer to your first question, [i][b]“what is it exactly that you want your pastor to solve at this meeting?”[/b][/i]

We are meeting the pastor of our church to discuss the types of sermon information he has been presenting to the congregation in light of what the Bible says. Sermons that don’t preach Jesus Christ and the full gospel are not sermons at all, and serve no purpose to bring people into the Kingdom.

The only thing to be solved is to have the gospel preached, for that is the Great Commission.

Yes, God gave me the dream. He has done the same with countless others. I believe this one is a warning. I don’t know the reasons He chooses to impart certain things to certain individuals. God uses those who are willing to be used, and He reproves us and draws us back as well, in various ways, and through various people. Leaders are not exempt.


In answer to your second question: [i][b]“did the Lord ask you to do something specific with this dream?”[/b][/i]

We are all ministers and are, therefore, charged to challenge each other to stay on the narrow path. Admittedly, no one person can claim the corner on all knowledge concerning spiritual matters. We have prayed, and still are in prayer, searched the scriptures, have taken notes, have gone back to listen to countless messages from the pastor, and have sought counsel before anything else was done. We do not take this lightly, and we are going directly to the brother (no matter the station he holds) to discuss the matter – which is of Biblical import. If we are to be burdened for souls, then we must do what we have been led to do by the Holy Spirit, and that is to approach the pastor.

In answer to your final question, [i][b]“what part in all of this does your husband have?”[/b][/i]

I appreciate this question because I am one who believes that the man should be the spiritual leader in the home. My husband and I are partners in all we do. Contrary to what you may perceive, it was not my idea to post the dream or forward it to any particular person. It took quite a while for me to even tell my husband because I was, frankly, afraid of the dream itself. He is the one, along with others wiser in counsel than I, who has encouraged me to share it.

I disagree with you on one point: [i][b]“let God be disturbed about the state of the church, being disturbed is not our job." [/b][/i]

I do not believe we are not to be disturbed at the things God is disturbed about. We do love this pastor and pray for him, but if we do not let him know the things that concern us, faith and love without actively being involved otherwise is for naught.

Thank you again for your words of admonishment.

They have been taken into careful consideration and I appreciate your willingness to share your concerns with me.

Carol

R
RumbleBee Jul 12, 2007

First things first; we are very thankful for everyone's prayers in this matter. Please continue to keep our pastor, the Church, and us in your prayers.

We met with our pastor last Saturday, and brought our concerns to him about his ministry and the spiritual direction of the Church, as the Lord had laid it on our heart.

Our meeting lasted just over two hours, and attended by the lead member of the board, and we brought our own silent witness.
The meeting went better than we could have expected.

As difficult as it was to discuss most of the subject matter, we were able to address the majority of our concerns revolving around the importance of his presenting the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and just how much his flock needs direction, and almost as important, for us to be fed by the Holy Sprit.

I am sure this was bitter medicine on his part, but with love, he took all we had to give him and said he would reflect on it and pray for God’s guidance.

We now are continuing in prayer for him and our Church, and look for God to move in our midst.

Again, keep us in your prayers.

Vince (Carol’s husband)

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