Christians that do not believe in the gifts and Unity

Hi,
I want to share something that God showed me a few years ago.Basically during some study he showed me that their is a strong link between gifts and unity.It seems anytime gifts are listed unity is also mentioned.Since then I believe that the church can't have full unity without the gifts being in operation.Not alone that they have to be in correct operation.(everybody has to do what god called them to do;his/her own ministry and not try to perform a ministry they don't have)
Eph 4 states if you reverse the logic that without apostles,prophets etc we can not have "unity of the faith".Its not possible.You cant have it.

Eph 4:11\t\tAnd he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

\tEph 4:12\t\tFor the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

\tEph 4:13\t\tTill we all come in the[u][size=x-small][color=CC0000]unity of the faith[/color][/size][/u] , and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ

Cor 12 deals with unity of the gifts and if you read the entire chapter from the start its all unity(oneness).Paul explains how God puts the parts of the body together so as to avoid schism(the opposite of unity),some have one gift and others have another etc

12:23\t\tAnd those [members] of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely [parts] have more abundant comeliness.

\t1Cr 12:24\t\tFor our comely [parts] have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that [part] which lacked:

\t1Cr 12:25\t\tThat there should be no schism in the body; but [that] the members should have the same care one for another.

\t1Cr 12:26\t\tAnd whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

\t1Cr 12:27\t\tNow ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

\t1Cr 12:28\t\tAnd God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

\t1Cr 12:29\t\t[Are] all apostles? [are] all prophets? [are] all teachers? [are] all workers of miracles?

\t1Cr 12:30\t\tHave all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

\t1Cr 12:31\t\tBut covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Their are different types of Unity for instance if a brother or sister gossips or back bits against another that can cause a disunity;I'm not talking about that kind of unity.
To those of you out there who don't believe the gifts are for today,then I say this to you either is unity.You can't have a fully correctly operating church without the gifts,yes we can still all get along together in love but we still will miss out.Unity is for today,the gifts are for today,love is for today,just perhaps revival is for today also.
Rgds Staff
P.S Their is a third less obvious listing of gifts but I cant find it off hand maybe someone could track it down

Staff,

I'd love to see some unity somewhere, other than in a disaster when everyone in all the various churches is willing to reach out to help people.

What I don't see is how to bring about the unity.
Can it be done without tribulation to make us cling to one another? Or is there a way to use the gifts to create unity?

Do we have to have persecution to drive us underground, and into one another's arms? It seems so, yet I look at the gifts, and wonder, why can't we use them to do something!

[color=993300]1 Corinthians 12

1. Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3. Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9. To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10. To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11. But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[/color]

I, alas, think only persecution and trials will bring unity, and both are coming soon.

Sadly,

Forrest

I think true unity is actually the first sign of the Holy Spirit's presence and accepted sovereignty in a group of people. In Acts 2, unity preceded the more noted signs of His presence.
[color=000099]
Acts 2.1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, [b]they were all with one accord[/b] in one place.
Acts 2.2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
[/color]
Before unity can exist in a group of people, the Lord needs to be on the throne in the individual lives. If two people are totally submitted to God's Spirit, The same Spirit is having His way in both lives and there won't be any differences of interest, even if there are differences in opinion on trivial matters.
[color=000099]
James 4.1 From whence comes wars and fightings among you? come they not hence even the lust that war in your members?
...
James 4.7 Submit yourselves [b]therefore[/b] to God...
[/color]
Quoting Derek Prince, "When you see a 'therefore', find out what it's there for." :-)

PassingThru

Have you ever heard of a Pastor by the name of Bill Wilson? He runs an inter city childrens ministry in New York city. Any way it's a story that needs to be told and you , my dear brother need to hear it. I think it was when young Bill was 8 years old his mother, while in Florida left him at a street corner and told him to stay there and wait for her (she couldn't really handle motherhood). Three days later he was still at that street corner waiting when ONE christian man reached out to young Bill Wilson and took him to a christian center, I believe that's what it was. One person reaching into the life of one person. Now fast forward it to this day, who is Bill Wilson? He started a ministry to children 12 and under, and presently ministers to over 20,000 children every week in NY city, the method he employees to reach these children is being used in over 1000 places world wide. So let ask you, what you have labored for in prayer and do labor for, are you willing to allow God to touch you and use you once again for His glory? Will you be that one who will reach into the life of one??

Hi Compliments,
Just to say with a split like the one you discribed not alone do you have people not in harmony but the gifts could not function properly so you would have dual difficulties.
Rgds Staff

Hi Forrest,
Definitely I think the gifts can bring about unity.The gifts are not for today; its just not true!They are central.

Look at eph 4:12
For the perfecting of the saints means that if we are getting perfected surely that helps cause unity to break out.

Look at Eph 4:13
Its self explanatory till we all come in the unity of the faith.Just noticed as I am typing that it says "all" and "in the unity" rather than "to the" so maybe it does need some explaining

Look at eph 4:14
The gifts below or offices are so we be not tossed to and fro but are stable in our beliefs this can only help the cause of unity.

Eph 4:11\t\tAnd he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

\tEph 4:12\t\tFor the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

\tEph 4:13\t\tTill we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

\tEph 4:14\t\tThat we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
rgds staff

Hi passing thru,
You have to ask yourself why we were they in one accord?It was because of the giftings of the apostles who knew they had to stay and wait on the lord,
RGDS staff

Hi Staff

You have to ask yourself why we were they in one accord?It was because of the giftings of the apostles who knew they had to stay and wait on the lord.

To lint pick, the apostles tarried in Jerusalem because Jesus instructed them to.

Unity came before the other manifestations. I believe unity comes as a result of each person being harmonized with God's Spirit, not as a result of the gifts themselves.

I for one do not have any distinct supernatural gifts operating in my life that cannot be explained in the natural. That doesn't mean I don't have God's Spirit and it doesn't exclude me from experiencing unity.

I believe the [u]baptism[/u] in the Holy Ghost is distinct event in itself and not necessarily part and parcel of being born again, but that's a topic for another thread.

That said I believe that genuine gifts, used exclusively for their God given purposes, are much needed today. The Bible urges us to seek them and I think we should be obedient in this.

PassingThru

hi passing thru,
What I mean is that Jesus used the office of apostle to command them to stay in Jerusalem and also through the Holy Spirit he commanded them earlier,what he commanded is not said.I would say that while they were waiting for pentecoste the apostles were active within the group.

[size=x-small][color=CC0033]Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:[/color][/size]

The gifts apostles,prophets etc according to eph 4 are to help us come in the unity of the faith.
EPH 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
I'm not talking about gifts on an individual basis but as a corporate body.Without apostles,prophets,teachers etc we cannot have a unified body.
rgds Staff