Charismatics versus Cessationists

Dear Saints,

Since I was saved in 84 I attended charismatic churches. There were many excesses that originated from the charismatic movement and brought it into discredit. This, I believe is one of Satan’s greatest recent triumphs.

We get a lot of preaching against the Toronto Blessing and its more recent derivatives. While I think it is necessary to expose error and refute excess, I have never come across any preaching advocating the proper use of the gifts as in 1. Cor 14. Paul brought correction into the chaotic Corinthian church.

I have recently met ex-charismatics who became cessationists because of the excesses in this movement. This is a very long standing and debate that is still going on. To my understanding this is pouring the baby out with the bath.

Has anyone come across any sermons that delivers a balanced position and advocates propriety in worship?

Narrowpath

I don't think either are correct. Because both are 'too extreme'. Most Charasmatics, from my experience, get too mystical and forget solid teaching and discipleship. Cessationists, on the other hand, tend to put God in a box and not be open to His movings.

Both are extreme and I think both aren't biblical.

We need a church to follow the footsteps of Jesus each and every step.

narrowpath wrote:
Has anyone come across any sermons that delivers a balanced position and advocates propriety in worship?

I would have to do a bit of "re-listening" to pick out specific sermons, however names like Art Katz, Paris Reidhead, Leonard Ravenhill, David Wilkerson, George Verwer, David Pawson, and our very own resident "theological dynamo", Ron Bailey:-P, all come to mind as balanced individuals who accept the charismatic as being for today.

The issue is one of avoiding throwing out the baby with the bath water. Look to the charismatic roots, rather than the excesses today. The same can be said of evangelicalism's acceptance of emergent theology. Do we reject evangelicalism as a result of such an excess creeping in? Of course not.

David Pawson has an excellent teaching series entitled "Charismatics and Evangelicals". I don't know if it is available freely for download anywhere, but it can be purchased at [url=http://www.davidpawson.com/anchor/anchor.nsf/MP3-List?openform&Cat=MP3*David+Pawson+-+Studies+on+The+Church&]www.davidpawson.com[/url]. This teaching is excellent, in that it gives a thoroughly Scriptural, supported by history, and gives a well balanced appraisal of both sides of the equation, with pros and cons.

Good luck in your search. :-)

Hi Narrowpath,

Try this message by John Piper where he examines specifically the Gift(s) of Prophecy - expositing from Romans 12 - and looks at the arguments of two prominent Reformed scholars: Richard Gaffin (cessationist) and Wayne Grudem (Charismatic). Though he admits to siding with Grudem's definition of prophecy and the resulting argument for continuation, he presents both sides with due respect.
[url=http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/2004/186_Using_Our_Gifts_in_Proportion_to_Our_Faith__Part_1/]Using Our Gifts in Proportion to our Faith: Prophecy [/url]

One book i'm currently reading at the moment is [i]Are Miraculous Gifts for today? 4 Views[/i] which is edited by Grudem and features contributions by Gaffin, Robert Saucy (neutral), Douglas Oss (Pentacostalism) and Sam Storms (Third Wave/Vineyard Movement). Each author presents their own case, while the others review and comment from their own POV. Certainly worth the read regardless of individual stances on this issue.

I attend and am assistant pastor at a Calvary Chapel. Our approach to the gifts is very different then most. We get accused by Pentecostals of being Baptists and by Baptists of being Pentecostals.
We do believe the gifts are for today. We believe however that as Paul says everything should be done decently and in order.
You will almost never hear a pastor or anyone else speak in tongues on a Sunday morning or in almost any public setting.
Calvaries typically reserve that for what we call an afterglow service; specifically set aside time to seek the Lord and have a working of the spirit.
And I can assure you, that you will most likely never see barking like dogs; slaying in the spirit; running around and making a spectical of oneself in any Calvary Chapel afterglow; unless it's from an uninformed or mislead visitor who will be corrected.
Hope that helps. Pastor Chuck Smith is the tool of God that was used to start this movement. If you'd like more info on any of it, I'm sure you can probably find some of his teachings on this website or you can go to his churches website http://costamesa.calvarychapel.com/
Oh and his book on the subject is "Living Water".