Where does American Christianity End?

This is nonsense I belive. If you are a man and you get bored in the house of God , then get saved for the love of God.

Many church leaders would like to do a better job reaching men, but don't know how, says a bestselling Christian author. But a new program isn't the answer, he's adds.

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How do you attract and pump up men for Jesus on Sundays?

David Murrow, author of Why Men Hate Going to Church, suggests Sunday worship services with a masculine accent.

"Go for the Guys Sunday" is a newly released action plan for churches to take the first step to assure their service resonates with men, who are often bored in or absent from the pews.

Men are the world's largest unreached people group, according to Church for Men, founded by Murrow. They currently make up less than 40 percent of church attendants at a typical worship service. Murrow argues that services are built around feminine values with worship songs that are sweet and sentimental and sermons emphasizing the home, marriage and family.

Men need more masculine imagery and more opportunities for men to use their skills, he says. They have their own language, culture and unique needs.

Traditionally, a church that offers men's ministry hosts breakfasts, outreach and other programs. But when Marty Granger - who will be heading the upcoming large-scale men's assembly Stand in the Gap 2007 at the National Mall in October - asks if churches have "a ministry to men" rather than a men's ministry, church leaders often get puzzled.

"I say, 'Do you recognize the needs of men, do you actually work on your worship services and your programs being masculine friendly and masculine language?'" Granger would ask them. "Oftentimes, that's where the disconnect is."

Church for Men encourages a different approach. Although a men's ministry may flourish as men act masculine only in that context, when it comes to attending church on Sunday, men often have to "check their manhood at the door."

Rather than a separate men's ministry, Church for Men promotes the integration of a masculine spirit with church life.

A "Go for the Guys Sunday" would meet the culture and needs of men that Murrow believes have been ignored too long.

When hosting a "Go for the Guys Sunday," especially as Father's Day approaches, one suggestion is to decorate the sanctuary around a chosen theme – such as "Great Outdoors Sunday" – so men feel at home and not uncomfortable on cushiony pews with fresh flowers and quilted banners traditionally inside a church.

And shorter is better when reaching men. Church for Men recommends Sunday worship services be wrapped up in one hour or less.

Worship songs should also have lyrics that men can relate to. While hymnals are full of anthems for men, today's praise songs, Murrow argues, sound more like love songs. Men prefer upbeat songs and songs that do not repeat over and over.

Avoid the overtly evangelistic message, the organization recommends. The special service is designed to change men's perceptions, that it's boring or irrelevant, of church.

And the special service will not only pique the interest of men but also of women.

"Here's the wonderful truth about women: they are comfortable with guy things," argues Church for Men. And with one out of five married women worshiping on Sundays without their husbands, most women will gladly try something new in order to attract their husbands, sons and fathers to church.

Bottom line: give men some attention. "Men have been neglected for years. They're bone dry - but give them a little personal attention and they grow like mad," according to Church for Men.

Churches that have more men in the church (60 percent or more) are more likely to be growing than those dominated by women membership, a study by Hartford Seminary found last December.

"We're hoping churches will recapture the spirit of masculine involvement in the churches," says Granger

this is very sad!
in His love
charlene

What is the real reason whay men are not coming and not leading? they need to be broken for their God, a man after God's hearts. God is Holy, we are to fear him.

Hi Krispy,

I agree with you that this is just another flavour of a seeker friendly, flesh-pleasing church service idea, BUT what do we do about the fact that there IS a whole bunch of men missing in the church...the single 25 - 45 year olds.

Why isn't this demographic being reached? We, the church, and particularly the leaders, need to ask ourselves that question. I once heard on a radio program that according to statistics approximately 50% of the population is single and of that the split between male and female were approximately even yet this is not reflected in the church population( btw...this was a British radio show, but I would guess that these stats would be similar for North America.) I have been going to church for about 20 years and have visited most denominations and see the same thing...one single guy for every seven to ten single women.

What bothers me the most is that the leaders don't even blink at this. Though I don't consider myself "desperate" as the Lord has given me the grace to walk as a single woman, I do occasionally feel disheartened at what I see. And I know the pain and frustration of friends in the same boat. But it is like pastors out there don't even see this as an issue. And there is no acknowledgement of the quiet grief some single women who wanted a husband and a family but never did and now it's too late experience.

I would expect that the men should be reaching other men, correct? So, my question is, are they? I doesn't appear so.

Sonja

But we still won't go to the church. I'm keeping my mouth shut on this one.

These jokers love to talk about when Paul went to Greece and he related to the Greeks on their level by talking about their gods. But they fail to mention that he also told them the truth plain and directly. Paul never shied away from proclaiming the gospel.

I have heard such things as the churches need to take out some of the flowers and add a deer head for the men because the decor was so feminine. I have to admit, I have never once thought about it before I heard that.

I am believing more and more each day that the very thing that our churches desperately need is the very thing many of these seeker friendly type men are trying to strip from the meetings; i.e. good ole' fashioned [i]Holy Ghost Conviction.[/i]

It's the quality of the men preaching the cross. Puff and protest all you want. We've been Dobsonized and MacArhurized to death. Look over the landscape. real holiness.

Karsten

1Cor. 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

It's the quality of the men preaching the cross.

This is where I chime in to say a lamentable, "agreed". I can't speak regarding MacArthur, I haven't heard him, but I can say this...

I am 22 years old. I was raised in a church, graduated from a bible college, and served as missionary and youth pastor... before I had ever repented and been converted. Not one man ever confronted me on the filthy music, corrupt shows, and idle idiocy I indulged in because they were all in it too. I don't speak with maliciousness, but with deep fear for many of them and great sorrow. I never knew a man that forsook his paycheck and vain, pleasure loving friends to please Christ. My pastor harped on the biblical ligitimacy of tithes, and never demonstrated scriptural tears over sin. I knew no one who fasted weekly, read for hours daily, remained pure from TV's pollution.

In short, the parade of men who lead and instructed me and those at my church and college were, it seems, (and I say again with fear) somewhat well-intentioned men who loved the pleasures of entertainment too much to know the power of the Spirit.

At 21 years old I heard Paul Washer, Paris Reidhead, and Ravenhill, all in one month. I repented and was converted. I received the filling of the Spirit and have pursued Christ with a new nature ever since.

Praise God for holy, simple men.

I really resent this guy for saying that these are "feminine values". I like to think of myself as a man's man... and I love my beautiful wife and my 4 incredible kids. I am totally sold out to them. Does that make me feminine? If so... give me a dress.

Good stuff Krispy. The problem is evident enough the solution is utterly absurd. If I might and with apologies before hand to the sisters here, there are men here, right here and my hunch is that the averages would over weigh the consensus prevalent in the numbers out there by a pretty good margin. This is not a church but it might give off the possibility that the messages are what true men after Gods own heart are after.

It is difficult to split the sexes on this because our sisters are just as truly after Gods own heart as anyone. But since this has it's bent around the issue with men ...

This is certainly a load of rubbish. Think someone gave me a book by John Eldridge surrounding some similar ideas and couldn't bring myself to partake of it, flipping through some of it briefly.

I think if we had some godly men in the pulpit preaching similar messages that are found here, the men would come because they are based on truth and reality. The ... elements of whatever it is men are supposed to be according to the world and that which is what was designed by God are blurred and confused and a great deal of that has to do with this strange effort to 'make' things palpable to every taste and every whim and every demographic and on and on the marketing approach goes. It seems to me if they would just quit talking about it and making all these fleshly unprayed for humanistic impulses the mode of operation ...

The scriptures are replete with gut retching realities that even the cleverest horror film or the craftiest drama couldn't touch, but it has become something other, so much so that Jesus is made to be ... Oh goodness, we know all this.

Not everything here is off as was mentioned on the premise it is just that it has gone so far south that it becomes an effort of overcompensation Integrity, character, [i]suffering[/i], humility ... patience, virtue ... these are virtues that have been stripped of their meaning and replaced with hijinks and alternatives. [i]Chivalry[/i], any one remember this word? There is great power in 'weakness' as many of us could attest to and as the scriptures point out and I am not setting aside just Whose power we are speaking of here. Promise Keepers has attempted some of this and I don't really follow or necessarily endorse much of it as it would just as well tie in with some of the similar notions expressed here ... too over blown in many aspects, too theatrical and flash and bang and all the other things thought needful to 'draw' men in. But, at least there is an appeal for men to be accountable and responsible in the realm of family and faith, to some degree ... it's a start perhaps.

But where a lot of this gets all off track is in bringing to bear all of the scriptures, the whole counsel of God. The flavors and presentations and manipulation and constant counterbalancing everything according to the tastes of the world of mere men and their schemes is that very ...

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

It is that "I think" has trumped "Thus sayeth the Lord" and it is backfiring incredibly. It is just as difficult to generalize every man but I think most men don't want to be patronized or pacified even if it is to appeal to their masculinity. Fake is fake and a sale is a sale, lures are for fishing and the kind of fishing we are after, for the souls of these men to be brought to their very knees isn't going to be accomplished by trying to pull the wool over their eyes or by using some cheap lure to get them biting. This is just more fodder for even more compartmentalization.

You want to get the men's attention, [i]preach![/i]

It's almost funny but still remember seeing the "Real men love Jesus" bumper stickers and quite often in my realm of construction in those days. And it evaded me partially though brought a curiosity to see these hard working men, tough, rough even, the worlds primary concept of what constitutes them (there is of course biblical warrant and truth in this) and still I would have smirked a bit underneath despite that, thinking that it didn't square, that Christian 'men' were effeminate and ... weak ... soft. Still, something intuitively told me they were right and I was wrong.

Weak yes! In the truest meaning of the word but hardly associated with the attachments that even the church has laid upon them. The strongest men in the world do love Jesus and they are real men indeed.

Oh why not, there is some unfinished thought in this ... There is still this grand misconception that conversion brings an ease and not a bloody battle. Temptations don't get easier because we are now free to deny them, the attacks are only stepped up and more sinister and from every available angle and scheme of the devil ... Now we [i]know[/i] some things. We know enough of our condition to last the remainder of this life in the fight against our own selves. Not about to get into the whole of deliverance and Who does what and how but the scripture is true and accurate about just who and what it is we fight against. Principalities and powers has become too glib and possibly over used to miss the reality that it expresses. Have been giving a lot of thought towards just what constitutes the atmosphere we find ourselves in at any given time and day to day circumstances. Out in the world, in the business world, wherever it is, even the Church itself! It is hostility even in the pleasntries. The dichotomy between that and the prayer closet, in close contact with the Savior in intimacy ... another retched out of it's context word. [i]Sheep amongst wolves[/i]. It is sheer warfare in the spiritual realm and we are spiritual people, not disembodied, compartmentalized, abstract notion holders. The nobility of a Christian is lost in the mire of the compromise at core levels, the surface having overtaken import and importance, is that not what this whole business is about? How to reach men by appealing to those things thought make a man? This is the most incredible life possible and the only real life there is and we would have it cauterized and compromised so that no one is offended and everyone is left dull one moment or flashed with excitement the next and duped into thinking this is what it is all about.

My, a bit of a soap box here, not particularly beside myself at all just ... bemused, again.

My question is this, if men are not coming why?
If women are coming why?
I don't think it because of the message. or the worship
Over the past two years God has put this heavy on my heart. Why men are not men but boys. Why?
Why is the question, so many women are asking. where are the men, where the men not willing to lead?

Could the promble be in the lack of older men, the leader of the Church not reaching these men?

There every few Church that have bible study just for men, not men's outing or eating, but digging deep in the word. Or training for young boys how to be men, and they are ask to do things that men do. I have seen every few older men hanging out one on one with the younger guys. I know many older women ready to meet with younger women. I have had many older who I met with. The Church I went to was quick to start prayer groups with the women, but not the guys. The leader are lacking? But my brother in the Lord had a hard finding just one older man to meet with him. Why?

I think the lack traning is missing. These younger man, don't know what there role is, they don't what it means to seek after God. they have to grow and be men. We are just playing games with them. We need the men in Church to come beside them and teach in the ways of the Lord.
and when this happens, they too will reach to other younger boys in the Church.

But with Childern that is the father job. But the Church can come beside and help them?

I think we need to preach the Gosple, and willing to die to share it. To train men who understand the cost of Christ.
Do men understand the cost?
what about prayer, are the men praying, without prayer they are powerless? To many prideful men, who want thing there way, and not God;s.
I have seen that alot of guys in the Church don't lead, because they have never been ask, or ever told it is something they should do. There are lots of guys who brought up in home with father who don't know the Lord.

If men are not coming then, we need to preach the gosple. The gosple saves, and will bring men.
who will want to worship our God

We have a job when new men come, reach out to them.
In his love
charlene

Where the Holy Spirit is - thats where people(men and women) will be. If we could just have one tru touch of the power that happened at pentecost it would change everything. i agree with most of the posts here. If repentace/holiness were preached (or Gods whole word) were preached in love from a person filled with the Holy Ghost who prayed and fasted my what a change there would be....! Instead of all the pandering to youth/men/women if the person in the pulpit would reach to God the people in the pew would as well.

I think a lot of the reason men are not acting like men anymore is because our society as castrated them. Crude, I know, but true. Scripture sometimes uses crude parallels too.

Cost. The sense of this is altogther missing because 'by grace you have been saved' and the Protestant line absolutely correct has been exagerated to proportions never intended. Where now it is easy and painless, quickly remedied and the whole host of notions characterised by OSAS, not to worry over examine yourself ...
The push is to tag and bag them rather than exalt God and give up and over the creature life in endurance and self reputating effort. How else the application to place the man to ape our cliche' over them crying out "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

It is indeed the meassge that is stripped of it's inherant power by the wiles of mere men. Musing on this whole thing the verse;

Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

How is this completley missed in this ideal? Would we expect men to give up to that which is greater than them by kowtowing to their percieved needs of 'manly' attributes?

This is completely unscriptural... but we cant blame the women completely. I blame the men for letting go of the reigns. Men have turned it over.

It is very much the fact that the discussion has turned to 'where are the men?' that ought to wake up the church that it is too much like the world for these same men to take any notice of it. And that is because the Church has by and large replaced it's exaltation of the Lord as King and ruler over the hearts of men and drawn it's attention to [i]pleasing[/i] them rather than pleasing God. All the deep, searching truths presented here, the Tozers of days gone past exemplifying the Holiness of the Lord, the true reverential [i]fear[/i] of a Holy God, the turning away of eternity for today's fleeting thrills, the fact of death biting at the heels, hell's wide open gaping mouth swallowing up it's inhabitants and the crossless, painless, costless redemtion made fodder for clever marketering and easy acceptance ... Pontificating? Or as our brother put it 'Puff and protest' ... perhaps, but it is still the gut retching, actually maybe that is it more than I know, the lack of it!

Robert is correct about the need for some good old fashioned Holy Ghost conviction. Somehow we have to get this thing turned away and off the eyes of men and get them to put their eyes on Christ, make their brains sweat, their hearts break and give up this notion that we can create or manufacture it to come to pass. If we would just stick to the text ....

Maybe the problem is this generations idea of what makes a man.. There is a bibical description of what makes a true man, David's charge to his son Solomon...1 kings 2
1.Now the days of David drew nigh that he should die; and he charged Solomon his son, saying,

2.I go the way of all the earth: be thou strong therefore, and shew thyself a man;

3.And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself:

It takes true courage to be a man like this, to do the will of God will cost you everything, everything that seems to us good, but will give you true lif. If a man models his life on these things he will be challenged to excel in what is truely noble and will know himself a man. He will not need outward things to prove to himself that he is a man, he will know that he is.

Jesus came to reveal what a true man was meant to be , He came to restore what we were created for, to return to us our lost estate.. what a man would have been before the fall into the lust of the flesh, lust of the eye, pride of life. If we look at Jesus we see the true image of a man. Honour, purity, bravery, nobility, courageous, everything true and good. Strong enough to care and willing to die for what he lived for, others...

Have you ever noticed that when you watch a movie when men are fighting for a good cause and one gives his life for his friends, when you see true nobility of spirit, you are lifted up with admiration? Something inside you is exultant, O, well done, your inmost man cries!

Maybe we are not showing them truth, maybe they do not want to hear because something less than true manhood is being portrayed as christianity?

Maybe we should stir their conscience by showing them the absoulute, the only man that has ever walked this earth, show them Jesus, and say to them, can you be a man like this? Can you walk as he walked? Do you have the courage of true godliness? Is your spirit noble as his was?Can you be a true man?

Is the reason for this great falling away that the way, truth and life are not being taught?

Interesting how this topic is a buried frustration in not only the church but also society. All one need to do is raise the question in a men's meeting "Is the church too feminized?" and you will recieve unanimous agreement it has been...and also unanimous confusion as to why or what to do about it.

I certainly agree with what has been said so far. Liberal policies (from both partiesl) in this country have educated, conditioned, and downright intidimidated manhood right out of our society. Just look at this generation of effeminate presidential candidates. Could you imagine even a 'liberal' from the first part of this century standing next to his contemporary counterparts? Relatively speaking, even 'unreligous' new deal men like Roosevelt and Truman had substance, had measurable achievements to talk about, and a length of moral character by which to lead the country. Today's candidates have no real world achievements except graduate degrees, the abililty to articulate their feelings and the only moral concern they care about is global warming.

The baby boomer generation has turned every issue into matter of preference... even the church comes in cappicino flavors. And after the baby boomers are thinned out, we are going to have to find our leadership from a generation of narcissistic sensual mama's boys who believe someone else is obligated to pay their way for them.

I also want to bring up the topic of non-resistance...which is a seperate but I think related issue. It is related in that I want to make sure that the conversation of true Christian peace is not confused with the leftist mentality of avoiding personal responsibility. I find that many liberal evangelicals are finding bedfellows within absurd idealogical movements simply because they superficially agree with their rhetoric, without considering the spirit behind the words.

We all would like to be more sensitive and loving...but let's face it; weak men always seeking material ease, moral relativity, and social popularity don't know the meaning of love.

And now that I've vented my manly frustrations, I am going to have my lunch: a half portion of grilled salmon on a fresh bed of spinach leaves with fat free vinegarette, a fruit yogurt cup, and a cup of hazelnut coffee with imitation sugar.

MC

I'm back from my lunch. They didn't have the fruit cup so I was forced to order the lobster bisque. I was a little dissapointed.

Now where were we...oh yeah;...where are all the men, fired by adversity, tempered with sacrifice, and hardened with endurance, at in our society?

I sure would like to know!

Now about those liberals again. As I was saying earlier...

MC