How much leaven do we absorb when we read and listen to other men as they expound upon God’s Word? I can truthfully say that I never heard of Preterism until today and thought that all my beliefs concerning the end days were based on hours of Bible Study and revelation of the Holy Spirit. Have I fallen victim to someone’s agenda unknowingly? Lord help us all.
Eddie
Go back to the Word, read it without aids and discern through the Spirit what the Word is saying about the end times.
One of the problems in the church today is that we spend too much time dwelling on the end tims and not enough dealing with the work God has given us for this hour. Lift up your head and see that the fields are ripe for harvest.
Dear brother Eddie,
"Have I fallen victim to someone’s agenda unknowingly?"
I think that I had much of this problem that you mentioned here, especially about Eschatology, when I was first converted.
I can really see where it is easy to allow other's ideas and interpretations to form and mold how we see scripture, instead of the Scipture forming and molding our ideas themselves.
Brother, if you want to talk or have things you want to share about my inbox is always open.
Chris
You shouldn't be falling for any man's agenda if you are rightly dividing the word of God. It's a matter of HOW your reading it and WHAT your hearing. For example;How much leaven do we absorb when we read and listen to other men as they expound upon God’s Word? I can truthfully say that I never heard of Preterism until today and thought that all my beliefs concerning the end days were based on hours of Bible Study and revelation of the Holy Spirit. Have I fallen victim to someone’s agenda unknowingly?
Jesus said this 2000 years ago,
Do you believe that Jesus was speaking in His present day? I am sure He was speaking of His day. For we see on the day of Pentecost that 5 thousand men were saved, not counting the wives and children. Then on another day thousands more came in, such as should be saved.John 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white[b]already[/b] to harvest.
Many have put the Kingdom of God off into the blue yonder, yet Jesus said that the Kingdom of God was here. This was said 2000 years ago.
If every man is pressing into it, than it's obtainable now, wouldn't you say? Here is another verse that is like this one but said differently.Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Now remember these words were spoken 2000 years ago.Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
Would God give us a serpent if we asked for bread? No, of course not. So if we seek first the kingdom of God, do you think that we might obtain it in this life? Here is another verse that completes this;Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Do you feel deceived by what I have shared here?2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
rowdy2 wrote:
How much leaven do we absorb when we read and listen to other men as they expound upon God’s Word? I can truthfully say that I never heard of Preterism until today and thought that all my beliefs concerning the end days were based on hours of Bible Study and revelation of the Holy Spirit. Have I fallen victim to someone’s agenda unknowingly? Lord help us all.Eddie
I relate to what you have said, Eddie. I've been a Christian for quite a few years, and I never heard of Preterism before today either.
But I read the Widipedia article suggested by Philologos in the Preterism thread.
I was relieved to discover I am not a Preterist, either Partial of Full.
At the same time, I haven't fallen victim to the fundamentalist eschatology (for a long time, I never knew there was such a thing as this, either)...that puts the Kingdom of God way down the line somewhere at the end of the time charts.
But by study of the Scriptures with the essential help and revelation of the Holy Spirit-- and adding to this the help of a few vital ministries which fed me with "the finest of the wheat"-- it's clear to me the Kingdom of God has been growing in the earth since John the Baptist began to herald its coming. (He heralded it, and It arrived in the person of our Lord Jesus Christ, who was then, and will be forever, the King of that Kingdom.)
"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it" (Lk. 16.16).
And so Jesus went forth, preaching the gospel of the Kingdom of God. Everything He said and did was an expression of that Kingdom. Just one illustration: "But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you" (Lk. 11.20).
Isaiah prophesied of the "increase" of that Kingdom (Isaiah 9.6). And that's what happened when the Devil succeeded in having the King crucified so he could put a stop to that Kingdom. Exactly the opposite happened. For the King arose from the dead, and ascended to the Throne at the right hand of the Father, and sent forth the Holy Spirit into the earth, and the Kingdom, instead of being stopped, increased greatly!
"For the Kingdom of God is... righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Rom. 14.17).
And from then till now the Kingdom of God has been growing in the earth, like a field of wheat, Jesus says, in one of his parables. It will continue growing till it comes to fulness. It's been hit hard at times throughout history. Is scarcely observable at times. These days it seems the tares are sure getting ripe! That can only mean the wheat is close to full maturity too!
And that's what we wait for when our Lord Jesus encourages us to pray: "Thy kingdom come; Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."
It's the FULNESS of the Kingdom we pray for, the day when He deals with all the evil, deals with the tares, purifies and sifts the wheat." That day is at the door. "Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear" (Mt. 13.43).
...There's so much more to this; this is a very vast thing, the Kingdom of God. So as you said: Bible study and the revelation of the Holy Spirit. Let's stick real close to this. "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" (1 Thes. 5.21).
AD
I thank each of you for your replies from the bottom of my heart and your quotes were from the water that has brought me this far. When I saw my understanding defined for the first time by someone else it shocked me. I don’t know exactly why, but it may be that I have grown so accustom to my views being rejected that I was shocked to see myself so well defined by someone else. I think I have heard all the understanding that I have expressed by others but where do you go to church and be with those that believe that John saw the transition of the earthly kingdom into the spiritual kingdom of God. I have not recovered entirely but I know that even the more feeble parts of the body are necessary so I will continue on in peace.
Thanks to each of you, Eddie
by rowdy2 on 2007/5/24 12:52:24
How much leaven do we absorb when we read and listen to other men as they expound upon God’s Word? I can truthfully say that I never heard of Preterism until today and thought that all my beliefs concerning the end days were based on hours of Bible Study and revelation of the Holy Spirit. Have I fallen victim to someone’s agenda unknowingly? Lord help us all.Eddie
LOL No, I believe that's the way God wants it! I spent a lot of time in the 90's studying the end times too and even thanked God for bringing me out of some (to me) obvious error in thinking only to listen to Zach Poonen about two months destroy everything I had previously come to know!! LOL (I can't remember what sermon I was listening to of his).
And through that, the Lord showed me that it's not about when "we think" He's coming (because we can be prideful in our studying just knowing "we're" right and "we" reached a conclusion no one else has!!!) LOL, but it's about HOW we live in Him today that is going to effect our eternity and our place in it.
A resounding AMEN!!but it's about HOW we live in Him today that is going to effect our eternity and our place in it.
The reason why there are so many different viewpoints on eschatology is because they all sound good and right, especially if it's coming out of the mouth of someone important. We never question a celebrity preacher. Celebrity preachers are men like Wilkerson, Ravenhill, Tozer, Scofield, Darby, Rice, Swaggart, Graham, and you can add your list to this. It's only when you don't like a preacher is when we really refute what they are saying. But when we have an affection for them, we rarely dig into the scriptures to see what they are saying is true, we just accept it.
My Dad used to say that a lie told enough times will generally become truth in our thinking. I have heard people who finally hear the truth will exclaim, "Bible or no bible, my grand pappy told me the truth and I know he wouldn't lie to me"
Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
That's why we must be discerning and not take everything a preacher we like says at face value. We all make mistakes, famous men alike. We elevate them to a higher status than the rest of us followers of Christ, I think unrightfully. I too have been guilty of this with my own pastor;however, when I looked at one of his sermons next to scripture once, it was somewhat eschew. Usually, he had it right on...
My point is that we should follow the spirit, not men, because men will fail you, but God will not. I respect these men, but they are not God himself...
Eschatology is very confusing, but just be open to the spirit.
We never question a celebrity preacher. Celebrity preachers are men like Wilkerson, Ravenhill, Tozer, Scofield, Darby, Rice, Swaggart, Graham, and you can add your list to this. It's only when you don't like a preacher is when we really refute what they are saying. But when we have an affection for them, we rarely dig into the scriptures to see what they are saying is true, we just accept it.
Think there is a great deal of truth in that, but a closer examination of some of these would have them themselves inferring that we [i]do not do that!
"Plug into to your framework" I would say and then go and test it ...
([i]By the way brother, noticed your signiture quote, just recieved the book and the DVD, might have to compare notes somewhere down the line
Reply
I pray that my temporary oppression and affliction has strengthened the bonds that bind the body together, Brotherly Love and Charity the bond of perfectness" (Col. 3:14). They are the influences of the Spirit that testify to the world of the peace and righteousness in the body of Christ. You all have endeavored to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eddie
i don't know why, but i really don't think Revelations is that complicated. to me, the book of Hebrews and Romans is more complicated than Revelations. i believe that most of the problem that arises from Revelation most of us don't understand how the spiritual realm really operates. to give you an example let me say something i was astounded by from a teaching of a pastor in Africa. he says, Christians in the spiritual world are known by the love that they show in their life...WRONG. there is light that emenates from each of us in the spiritual world and the rest is dark, pitch black. so, Satan and his hosts only direct their resources at those lights they see. The world as we know it apparently in the spiritual world is pitch black dark. i was astounded when i heard it. do i believe it? yes i do. and then the verse, let your light shine before men" came into my mind as i first read that teaching, and wondered i wonder, when the Lord said that, he meant that let that spiritual light that the devil and all the hosts of heaven, be wicked and Holy, see it. apparently, that light emenates according to our walk; it can be as strong as a towering city disco light, or small as a candle, depending on the walk/access we have with and to Christ.
sb1175 wrote:
he says, Christians in the spiritual world are known by the love that they show in their life...WRONG.
In fact, it is actually both. You see, scripture teaches that we are a city on a hill and that the world will know us by our love. It does not have to be one or the other. Don't believe me?
Here are the words of Jesus himself:
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." John 13:34-35
and
"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid." Matthew 5:14
As for the rest of your message, if I am not alone, your demonstration on how easy it is to under Revelation is confusing.
This is fascinating. Do you have the name of that pastor and the message that he preached by any chance? Next question. What doctrine does he hold to?
sb1175 wrote:
i don't know why, but i really don't think Revelations is that complicated. to me, the book of Hebrews and Romans is more complicated than Revelations. i believe that most of the problem that arises from Revelation most of us don't understand how the spiritual realm really operates. to give you an example let me say something i was astounded by from a teaching of a pastor in Africa. he says, Christians in the spiritual world are known by the love that they show in their life...WRONG. there is light that emenates from each of us in the spiritual world and the rest is dark, pitch black. so, Satan and his hosts only direct their resources at those lights they see. The world as we know it apparently in the spiritual world is pitch black dark. i was astounded when i heard it. do i believe it? yes i do. and then the verse, let your light shine before men" came into my mind as i first read that teaching, and wondered i wonder, when the Lord said that, he meant that let that spiritual light that the devil and all the hosts of heaven, be wicked and Holy, see it. apparently, that light emenates according to our walk; it can be as strong as a towering city disco light, or small as a candle, depending on the walk/access we have with and to Christ.
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