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Advice & prayer needed - my dad is becoming a JW

R
ReviveUsLord May 29, 2007

Dear brothers and sisters,

it's been for a while now that I wanted to share this with you and ask for your advices and prayer. I know there've been some threads here for witnessing to JW etc. but I need a more specific advice since this is happening in my home.. I will try to describe the situation to you giving you some spiritual history about my dad because it's essential to your understanding of the situation:

My father and mother come from eastern-orthodox background, i.e. they had no true knowledge of the gospel. In his late 20s my father realized that his health was not very good and he's been diagnozed with some sort of arthritis. Since then he was desperatly looking for solution in doctors, medicines, inventions.. These didn't help him too much so he was mainly left to help himself. He then also looked for help in the orthodox religion by observing the orthodox holidays, celebrations and traditions. Finally in his late 30s he came in touch with a protestant Christian (while staying in the hospital due to his illness) who explained him the gospel and took him to several protestant services. He liked what he saw and was told, he believed that was the right way to worship God, accepted the way of salvation presented to him and brought the new teaching at our home.

None of us had read the Bible before and we were sceptic of this 'new doctrine'. But soon he found protestant church in a nearby town and he invited the pastor of the church to come to our home to preach the gospel to us. I will cut the details here and I will tell you that soon our whole family got converted and was baptized and started going to this protestant church. There was sheer opposition from everybody around (and we have an orthodox priest for a neighbor); there've been terrible lies going around (not less made up by the orthodox church itself) for us being a sect etc. but my dad stood firm at all these attacks, boldly defending the gospel and witnessing. In fact he was so much 'on fire' for his new-found faith that he spoke about Christ and salvation in every possible occation, always carrying with himself gospel tracts and New Testament to give away. By his testimony people got better impression of protestant christians and realized we were not dangerous, demonic or similar, and a few also came to Christ.

Now I will cut here the in-between part, which is ~10 years, and come to the recent time.
My father became more and more dissatisfied with the church we attended and apparently this grew to a rebellion in his heart. (I was in Germany for 4 years until 09/06, so I wasn't direct witness of the process of 'cooling' and 'inward rebellion'). A few weeks after my coming back from Germany, my dad invited JWs into our home who were going from door to door in the building we live. Now this wasn't accidental, that he just opened the door to them. It was actually purposeful. His rebellion caused him probably to 'look for other ways' and there they were, the witnesses knocking on our neighbors doors, and he especially invited them in, before they even came to our door. While he was 'active' at the protestant church he didn't approve the JWs (that was what our pastor was teaching) and even though he had met them before in our home, he told them that he has his knowledge of the Bible and if they came to bring another doctrine they should stop comming to our home, which they actually did. But now he was really interested in their teaching and wondered why the pastor had told him to shun them, perhaps because they were right and had even better doctrine and the protestant pastor was being now what the orthodox priest had been before when he came to the protestant church?? So he invited them to come again, and so they started coming every week, explaining him their doctrine.

I didn't like them coming to our home and neither did my mom, so she insisted when they came again that they must not come again and somehow made them not to come to our home. Well this didn't stop my dad to meet them at another place and to continue "fellowshipping" with them. What started seemingly as "trying to see what they're teaching" became soaking of their doctrine like a sponge. They got him on the Trinity and he surrendered to them for everything else afterwards. His heart was so open to their doctrine that he was ready to forsake all that he had heard and learned from the Bible, the protestant church and other Christian books, for the sake of this new doctrine. This was a total shock to me, my pastor and all believers who knew my dad. They all knew him as a very zealous Christian and now he left our church for the Watchtower..

I was not ready for this. I immediately started searching for verses that were proving my previous learned doctrine, to prove firstly to myself that I wasn't believing lies before and things that weren't in the Bible and at the same time I was sharing them with my dad. Now this sharing was more like giving my arguments from here and there as I was finding them, that our prevous knowledge was right and JWs were wrong rather than calmly and humbly speaking the truth in love. There were other believers who came to expose him the right Bible teachings esp. concerning the Trinity, but that didn't help. He is convinced that the Trinity doctrine is wrong and therefore all the confusion and divisions in the trinitarian churches, and therefore all the sin in the church reaching to the leadership positions of the churches (homosexuals, adulterers, criminals etc.) He believes that the JWs in fact have the true fruits by which "we know they are Christians", in the fact that they don't mix with politics, they have strict order by which everything functions properly and godly.

As he is progressing more and more into this new doctrine I am becoming more and more aware that this is utterly serious and is not playing games. My personal conclusion is that my father had never really been trully saved, and that's my impression the more he tries to "witness" to me. I couldn't understand this, (I think you can understand me now that you've read a bit of his spiritual history), but this has helped me tremendously in the way I need to 'treat' my father. He is actually "natural man" who "receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." And I was trying all this time to show him the truth through scripture. Not that this was necessarily wrong, but I was just expecting him to see what he was not seeing and I was getting frustrated with that. Many times I was not aware that I am not fighting against flesh and blood, and was getting emotional in my conversations instead of representing Christ. Recently I try to avoid discussing Scripture as it has shown in vain, but now he is provoking, and he starts "teaching" at home, at which I (sometimes) have to reply back. On one hand I feel I can do nothing by talking, on the other hand I just can't sit and watch how my dad is slowly but surely getting entrapped in the mighty tentacles of the Watchtower Society.

Please brethren pray for me that God will give me wisdom how to behave towards my dad. He thinks I'm hardened in heart in religion and I'm blindly following men's doctrine and I'm against him.
If anyone has any advice, please share.

I know the verses in Heb.6:4-6 and 1Joh.5:16, but I don't know what they mean. I am still praying for my father and hoping that God has better plan for him and our family than what the devil has deviced. I hope that this will all turn for the glory of the Lord by my dad's genuine repentance and conversion and so I pray. Please join me in prayer if you feel led to.

Thank you for reading.

Your sister in our Lord Jesus Christ,

Milica

sermonindex May 29, 2007

If he's darting around from Orthodoxy, to Protestentism, to JW, maybe he's looking for something he hasn't found yet? Or maybe he's come to an interpretation of scripture that isn't aligned with your current denomination? Or maybe he's carrying around some hidden sin that he hasn't yet been delivered from?

You may want to remind him that Solomon wasn't satisfied with the overflowing wisdom God gave him - he committed every type of sin and abomination in his quest for knowledge - up to and including building groves and idols for Astoreth and other Baal on the hills. Solomon ended up the bitter old man who declared in Ecclesiastes, "Vanity! Vanity! All is vanity!"

This is the destiny of all who aren't satisfied with the answers God gives us.

Perhaps you could show him this scripture:

"Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: [b]That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive[/b]; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ..." (EPH 4:13-15)

T
tjservant May 29, 2007

I will let others with much more wisdom than I answer your questions and give advice, but I have prayed and will continue to do so for your situation.

Peace be with you

H
hmmhmm May 30, 2007

http://www.towertotruth.net/


you can get some good info here

H
hmmhmm May 30, 2007

30 Questions to Get a Jehovah’s Witness to Think!


Resurrection of Jesus

If Jesus was resurrected as an invisible spirit, like the Watchtower teaches, why did Jesus say he was going to raise his physical body from the dead (John 2:19-22)?

If Jesus, the man, ceased to exist at his death and was raised from the dead as Michael the Archangel, why did Michael deceive the apostles into believing that they were witnessing Jesus in a resurrected physical body (Luke 24:39)?

If Jesus is now living in heaven as an invisible spirit creature, like the Watchtower teaches, why did Paul write many years after the ascension of Christ that he is dwelling in heaven in a physical body (Colossians 2:9)? Note: The Greek word, somatikos, means physical, tangible body.

If Jesus is now Michael the Archangel, why does 1 Timothy 2:5 say that the mediator between God and men is the man, Christ Jesus, and not the spirit, Michael the Archangel?

Can you show me a verse in the bible that clearly says Jesus is the Archangel Michael? How can Jesus be Michael since Hebrews chapter 1 stresses the superiority of Jesus over the angels and that all the angels worship him? Why would Jehovah command that the entire angelic realm worship another angel? Note: The Watchtower bible changes the word worship, in Hebrews 1:6, to “do obeisance to”. However, see section below on the New World Translation.

The Watchtower Society

Since the Watchtower was wrong in the past about many of its teachings and the light continues to get brighter (Proverbs 4:18), how do you know that the current teachings are correct and won’t change?

Why did the Watchtower magazine (Nov 15, 1981, p. 21) say to “come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation” when Jesus never directed us to an organization for salvation but to him?

When you joined the Jehovah’s Witnesses, did you read information for and against the Watchtower so you could make an educated and well rounded decision based on both points of view?

Has anyone become a Jehovah’s Witness after reading the bible alone without the aid of Watchtower material?

If I were to join the Jehovah’s Witnesses, would it be okay for me to do research into the Watchtower’s past by reading non-Watchtower material?

Since the Watchtower was in error many times in the past, are you obligated to believe that all the current teachings are God’s truth?

False Prophecies

If Jesus’ invisible presence began in 1914, like the Watchtower teaches, why was the Watchtower teaching in 1929 that Jesus’ invisible presence began in 1874? How did they finally figure out that that teaching was false? Reference: Prophecy, 1929, p. 65.

Since the Watchtower claims to be God’s prophet (The Watchtower, April 1, 1972, p. 197) and have falsely predicted Armageddon to occur in 1914, 1918, 1925 and 1975, do you think they meet the criteria of Deuteronomy 18:20-22?

Can you show me in the bible where it says to give false prophets a second or third chance to get it right?

If the Watchtower really is Jehovah’s prophet, like they claim, can you show me anything they predicted that came to pass?

The New World Translation

Why did Hebrews 1:6 in the 1970 version of the New World Translation say, “Let all God’s angels worship him” and not “do obeisance to him” like the new versions say?

Why does the New World Translation insert the word “other” four times into Colossians chapter 1 when it isn’t in the Greek manuscripts at all? Doesn’t this change the meaning of the text?

Why does the New World Translation place the comma in Luke 23:43 in a different location than it does every other time when Jesus says, “Truly I tell you”?

Can you show me a list of Greek scholars who approve of the New World Translation’s New Testament translation?

Can you show me a list of the people who were on the New World Translation Committee along with their credentials in the ancient Biblical languages?

The 144,000

If the Watchtower’s teaching that the 144,000 were filled in 1935 is correct, can you explain how Jesus, his apostles and their immediate followers couldn’t get 144,000 converts in 1800 years, but the Watchtower got 6 million converts in 125 years?

Why does the Watchtower teach that only 144,000 people are born-again when 1 John 5:1 says that everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God?

Why is there only one judgment period from God to test the endurance and worthiness of the 144,000 before they are guaranteed of eternal life, but the other sheep have to endure through this life, the 1000 year millennium plus pass an unknown final test before they are counted worthy of eternal life? Why is salvation so much easier for the 144,000?

If Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not part of the 144,000 with a heavenly hope, why does Jesus say in Matthew 8:11 that they will be in the kingdom of heaven?

Identity of Jesus

According to Jesus in John 17:3, how many true Gods are there? Would you say that whatever is not true is false? Doesn’t the New World Translation call Jesus “a god” in John 1:1? Since there is only one true God and all others must be false, is Jesus a true God or a false god?

If Jesus was God’s Master Worker in creation, why does Jehovah say, in Isaiah 44:24, that He created all things by Himself?

If Jesus is a created being, why does he get twice as much worship, in Revelation 5:12, as Jehovah gets in Revelation 4:11?

If Jehovah created Jesus, why does John 1:3 say that all things came into existence through Jesus and apart from him not even one thing was made? Doesn’t this place Jesus outside the realm of created things?

Miscellaneous

If everlasting life comes by taking in knowledge (John 17:3), how long do I have to study with the Jehovah’s Witnesses to be assured that I have enough knowledge to live forever? 1 year? 5 years?

If we pay for our personal sins when we die, like the Watchtower teaches, how will the great crowd who survive Armageddon pay for their sins since they will never die but go right on living into the millennium?

C
crsschk May 30, 2007

Dear sister,

Read this last night with a heavy heart... Like tjservant, my prayers over any advice. Seems to me that often any advice in the form of an argument especially at this stage and from your description ... perhaps it depends, depends on the state or frame of mind at any given moment.

What came to mind;

Pro 15:1 A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.

I know there are some very good helps out there from those who have been both well entrenched or in a similar situation to your own. Did look around a bit but couldn't find what I was looking for ... something from the broken heart to another broken heart, something that has spiritual understanding over a doctrinal discourse per se. I just suspect this may need a different treatment along with much prayer. It well may be primarily your silence and the Lord speaking through it that is what is in order. My prayers are with you sister.

P
PreachParsly May 30, 2007

I will pray also.

I haven't spent much time on the below site, but I've heard really good things about it. It may be of some help.

http://www.witforjesus.org/

sermonindex May 30, 2007


Dear Sister Milica,

My heart truly goes out to you. Like others have stressed, I to want to stress prayer. "Prayer" and "fasting" both, for God to enlighten the truth to your dad. I believe that some things can only be done by prayer coupled with fasting. I will take it very personal to do the same, to pray and fast for your dad and for our Lord to give you a rest and to give you his peace with this whole matter.

Would like to make known to you a website of help.

http://www.carm.org/

Brother Julian

sermonindex May 30, 2007

I am praying for you, dear sister, and for each member in your family, especially your father.

Love in Christ,
Joy

T
Tears_of_joy May 30, 2007

Dear sister, dear brothers and sisters,

Would we allow God to break our hearts for prayer?

Are we jealous for God's glory? Are we not grieved that the wicked one is not choosing ways how to destroy and devour even those few who left?

Are we not grieved that his kingdom is spreading more and more as never before and so many are deceived?

The thought the stamp in my mind is:

[b]Am I dangerous to his kingdom? Or he is laughing at me?[/b]

Are we pulling down his strongholds and destroy his plans?

Isn't the Creator of the heavens and the earth, the Almighty God with us?

Oh, to humble us more and make us nothing so we may be used for His glory!

This last Saturday, I believe God sent me two JW's to talk with them and may feel just a bit of His sad heart!
I was at a brother's house and two women (older, obviously more experienced and young girl) came to his house. I was working something and while my brother went to see what they want, I realized that they are handing Watchtower magazines. In those seconds I was thinking should I go to them or not and I went. My brother had to do urgent work in his garden and I left alone with them.
99% of people here don't read the bible, and they didn't expect at all that will meet someone who can oppose their beliefs from the Scripture.
This was my first so long talk with them, I didn't know exactly what to expect, my attitude is more not to talk with them, but I felt God is giving me grace and leading me to do that now.
After few minutes of talking and sharing scriptures, something begun to break in my heart. I saw two lost souls in great need for Jesus and salvation!

They started to be anxious and wanted to go away, seeing that this discussion would be fruitless for them, but my heart didn't want to leave them until they not heard the salvation power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

I asked them, "Please wait I want to ask you something, are you new born, are you saved" They got confused, and asked what you mean by new born, and then said, we don't know are we saved, we will see one day! And asked me, Are you saved, I said them yes, and they got confused even more, what a bondage is this! I said to them how you go and share the salvation when even you don't that you are saved! It was so sad and heart breaking, I had chance to share them in a few minutes about the salvation power of the Gospel of our Lord Jesus and then they left!

This experience was heart breaking for me, days after that these lost souls couldn't left my mind. I feel like I want to tell them and pray more!

Dear sister, I think this was just a very small part , just a bit from what you are going through! My heart and prayers are with you and your family!
This is indeed spiritual battle and I am praising God that He is giving you enough grace in these times of trials to stand firm for Him!

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14161&forum=35&start=10&viewmode=flat&order=0https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14161&forum=35&start=10&viewmode=flat&order=0#109748]These testemonies are so encouraging[/url] to remind us that we serve a [b]prayer answering God![/b]

Be encouraged sister,

Isa 63:1 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling [b]in the greatness of his strength?[/b] I that speak in righteousness, [b]mighty to save. [/b]


And as brother Keith Daniel asks in the message, what will God, putting the strongest possible emphasis upon God because man can do nothing, what will God not do and what lengths will He not be willing to go to, in order to answer our prayers about the things that grieve His heart!

We serve a prayer answering God!

C
CJaKfOrEsT May 30, 2007


ReviveUsLord wrote:
Please brethren pray for me that God will give me wisdom how to behave towards my dad. He thinks I'm hardened in heart in religion and I'm blindly following men's doctrine and I'm against him.
If anyone has any advice, please share.

...

I am still praying for my father and hoping that God has better plan for him and our family than what the devil has deviced. I hope that this will all turn for the glory of the Lord by my dad's genuine repentance and conversion and so I pray. Please join me in prayer if you feel led to.


Milica,

While all the advice that has been offered so far has been great, I wish to offer something of a more philosophical type; Be persuaded. Paul spoke of being persuaded that neither life, death, principalities and power, etc... could separate him from the love of God.

Either what you believe is the truth, or what you father has embraced is the truth. There is no compatibility between the two. Salvation is in no way an intellectual thing. It is utter foolishness and total insanity to those who are perishing. Not only do I know that "Jesus loves me...because the Bible tells me so", but I know this also, for the same reason. Everything about it attracts ridicule. Sin, the jealousy of God, Judgement, the Cross, even the very preaching of the Cross, is utterly ridiculous. Fortunately, for those who are saved, the preaching of the Cross is the power of God, unto salvation.

AW Tozer in his sermon [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=316]The Voice of Reason[/url] (well worth a listen), Tozer says that "the Christian message at times transcends reason, but never violates it." (slight paraphrase) I may be reading something wrong, but I detect a little wavering in your post. Although this is quite understandable, in your present situation, this can also be quite dangerous, as when further buffeting comes, it can be hard to hold onto Christ.

By saying "be persuaded", what I mean is allow God to prove Himself. Don't fall for the trap of convincing yourself of God's faithfulness and integrity, or even of His very existence. Weigh everything that you have been "told to believe" about God against the Scripture, and allow It to prove Itself to you. The Bible is up to the task.

Allow yourself to stare in the face of the offensive elements of God's character, and then make peace with [b]that[/b] God. Consider why he sanctioned the slaughter of the Canaanite nations, in Joshua. Learn why the Bible records Jephthah's slaughter or his own daughter, and the events recorded at the end of Judges, when Israel had no king.

Above all, consider the Cross. Consider the rationale of God, in giving His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. Weigh up Christ's statements in the Sermon on the Mount, and come under the weight of them. Learn what it is to take up your cross, and do it. Make sure you count the cost first, though, so you don't end up as the man with the half finished tower.

The man, woman and/or child who is persuaded, is persuasive. Mind you, this cannot be your motivation for being persuaded. After all, the chief end of all being is the glory of God, and to enjoy Him forever, and one of the verses that the Westminster Catechism uses to back up this statement, is "For all things are of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever, Amen" (Rom 11:36). In essence, if "all things are of Him", then wouldn't that mean that your predicament is also? Not to say that God is necessarily [b]in[/b] this, but if all things are of Him, then they had to have their origin in Him. After all, who gave you your father? Who gave your father the faculties of choice, with which he chose to involve himself in this deception? Could you bring yourself permission to give Him glory, and express your gratitude to Him for such a gift?

This is the challenge that comes from being His disciple. And who knows, perhaps you will persuade him by your reality, in the face of his associates' deception. I do not say this lightly, nor imply that this should be an enjoyable experience, but neither is suffering on the cross. It is this very reason that James exhorted us to "[b]Count[/b] it all joy, when you fall into diverse temptations (can also be translated "trials")" It is by this means that our faith is tested, leading to us be truly "perfect and complete, lacking nothing". In order to "count it all joy", one must [b]know[/b] this.

In summary, be persuaded, and then be what you are persuaded to be. "Being" will lead to an inevitable doing, that is not feigned or contrived. It produces a spontaneous obedience that pleases God. Focusing on "doing", on the other hand, has potential to lead to spiritual and emotional exhaustion, ironically increasing the difficulty to obey.

Regarding God's will and Satan's will, my prayer is that God will truly reveal the reality of His Word, when Paul wrote, under inspiration, that "all things work together for good, in Christ Jesus". Not "some" but "all". :-)

Bless you sister,

R
ReviveUsLord May 30, 2007

Dear brothers and sisters,

I feel very blessed to have (had) the chance to share my burden with you, and I thank the Lord for all of you through whom He lavishes His love and care to me. I thank you all for your prayers, encouragement and admonition. Thank you also for the websites you suggested me. I had a look at www.toweroftruth.net and I noticed well-structured helpful information there which I plan on looking at more carefully. I will also check the other two websites you suggested.

You see, I have told my dad much chopped information (as I was getting it and as I had the chance to share) concerning their false doctrine, their false profecies and the direct consequences of this all, but I haven't really 'worked out a strategy' if I can say so, to win my father for Christ.

Brother Aaron, thank you for stating openly your detection in my post. As I wrote in the first post, when my dad got in touch with JW initially I myself had to dig through scriptures to prove myself I was believing the Bible and not men's made-up doctrine. I had doubts arising by the deceptive questions the JW were asking concerning Scripture and even though I knew I knew God, I was vexed by these doubts and was trying to clarify them in my mind. By His grace, the Lord gave me peace and assurance that I am in Him and my knowledge of Him is genuine. Yet I was still troubled because of my dad, because I believed he knew God and he had a personal relationship with Him. But soon I got more and more convinced him being a natural man, because I couldn't find Christ-ly reason for the faith he had before in Him, and certainly I couldn't find a Christ-ly reason for what he believes now. So I surely don't doubt that I have the truth and my father is deceived. I do believe that all things work for my good and even this deception into which my dad has fallen. I see it as a time when God wants to change things in me and in my family too and I try to listen to God's voice in this. I am open to God's admonition and I am willing to go through what it takes so that God can get the glory out of me.

I am also thinking that (perhaps) this is the only way that my father can become broken before God and admit his utter worthlessness in front of Him and accept Him as He has revealed Himself in His Word and giving Him the glory for who He is. I say "perhaps", because I am troubled by the verses in Heb.6:4-6 and 1Joh.5:16, and I fear "what if these verses are applicable for my dad"? So I pray as if they are not, but I subconsciously fear that my prayers will not be answered positively if these verses apply to him and I pray against Scripture. I have to clarify here that I believe that salvation cannot be lost, and therefore the verses in Hebrews sound very applicable to me in my dad's situation. I want to pray with my whole heart, knowing I pray in God's will and yet these verses stumble me.. So how can I get persuaded about this??

Yours in Christ,
Milica

I
InTheLight May 30, 2007

Dear Milica, know that you and your family are in my prayers also.

I do have a question about your father that may be helpful for me in praying for him; would you say that he is a stubborn man?

In Christ,

Ron

C
CJaKfOrEsT May 31, 2007


ReviveUsLord wrote:
I see it as a time when God wants to change things in me and in my family too and I try to listen to God's voice in this. I am open to God's admonition and I am willing to go through what it takes so that God can get the glory out of me.

Speaking from experience, it can be a terrifying experience when God demonstrates your resolve to you in this area. I pray that you'll be able stand, having done all (Eph 6).


I am also thinking that (perhaps) this is the only way that my father can become broken before God and admit his utter worthlessness in front of Him and accept Him as He has revealed Himself in His Word and giving Him the glory for who He is.

I'd echo this statement. It is in keeping with His character. Perhaps a thorough meditation of Psalm 73 might help. Asaph was really onto something here.


I say "perhaps", because I am troubled by the verses in Heb.6:4-6 and 1Joh.5:16, and I fear "what if these verses are applicable for my dad"?

Consider the possibility that he was never "enlightened" in the first place. Ask yourself, has he ever truly repented? If not, then is it possible to renew him [b]again[/b] to repentance?

May I recommend Keith Daniel's sermon, [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=8195]When the Godly Fall[/url]? This may help clarify these two passages somewhat.


So how can I get persuaded about this??

The point of [b]being[/b] persuaded, is the "being". This is a call to an action, more than a condition. The point is to focus on the Persuader, and allow Him to persuade. I remember hearing of Martha Ravenhill, who when someone asked why her son David hadn't placed his trust in Christ yet, she replied, "Don't you dare try and talk him into it. If someone can talk him into it, then someone can talk him out of it."

You know, they always say that behind every great man, there has to be a great woman. :-)

sermonindex May 31, 2007

Dear Sister Milica,

Came across one of many books in regards to the JW and thought I would make you aware of it if you might want to purchase it. It's a very thin book and inexpensive but loaded.

Title: Jehovah's Witnesses, Verse by Verse

[edit]

By: David A. Reed

On the back cover:

* Immediately answers the Jehovah's Witnesses
misinterpretation of Scripture.

* Shows how to use the same Scripture in leading
Jehovah's Witnesses to Christ.

* Includes a verse-by-verse section which provides
helpful and handy refutational material.

* Discusses Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs, history,
and alterations in their Bible.

You can go to Amazon.com to get it

Brother Julian

sermonindex May 31, 2007

Dear sister Milica,

You and your family will be in my prayers! You keep looking unto Jesus!

I was quite troubled or grieved at times while reading your post, even despairing over your father's condition. I was focusing too much on man, his utter helplessness without a Savior. But the Lord reminded me of a verse now: "Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and [b]if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you[/b]" (Phil.3:15). And another, "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning" (Js. 1:17). This means that the spirit of revelation--this "being truly enlightened"--can only happen by the Spirit of God, by the Light that is Jesus Christ. Any human reasoning or form of self-assurance or persuasion will come lacking during trials; it will be tested and found wanting. Thus, I encourage you to keep praying for your dad--who is no different from any unconverted man, lacking spiritual understanding--and trust the Lord that you will reap in due season (Gal. 6:9). Remember that it is not your dad, his intellect, his past experiences, etc., which can save him, but Christ alone. "Flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father who is in heaven," the Lord Jesus said to Peter.

One more thing I would like to share with you, as an encouragement in the current situation, although it's really more humbling. I am staying at a friend's house for a couple of weeks this summer (he is an unbeliever). So last night he asked me to stay at his mother's house for the night; she is in her 70's I think, living by herself since the death of her husband a few years ago. I'd visited her before but hadn't spent much time with her alone.

So I went to her place. Now she is a beautiful old lady, even at this age, quite amiable. But communicating with her can also be very frustrating. She has Alzheimer's after a recent stroke, which means (and I am not an expert) that she forgets everything, all the time. For example, for breakfast this morning she gave me cereal, but said that she probably didn't have milk. We did have milk and I put it on the kitchen table in front of us and sat down with her. And then she got up and went to the fridge to look for milk for my cereal... It's quite painful, because she doesn't even remember her son visiting her the day before and thinks he hasn't come for a whole month now. And he visits her every day!

She believes in God, but is not saved. A few days ago when I met her, I had a chance to read to her from the Scriptures, and we prayed together. So last night it was really hard for me being around my host, even talking to her. Even caught myself thinking to myself, "What's the point of me saying this and saying that, Lord, if she forgets everything and keeps asking the same questions over and over again. She has no understanding; she is like a child. How can she learn anything? How can she be saved?" I even thanked God that I wasn't like her, for everything would have been so much harder.

The situation was unusual for me: I'd never witnessed to people who couldn't pay attention to me, or hear me, or even remember what I'd told them five minutes later. I felt like my effort was in vain. And this morning I left and was walking and praying on my way to work, asking the Lord why He put me into this, and what the hope for Mrs. Evelyn was. And then He spoke to me, quite clearly: "Slav, you are just like her! You are just like her!"

And He reminded me how forgetful I was of His grace and truth; how easily I was caught into the things of the world; how at times I lost assurance of my salvation and my view of eternity; how I was learning the same lessons and the same truths over and over again, like a little child--God showed again how utterly helpless I was without Him, having no sufficiency of my own; he showed me that I was not in charge of my salvation despite my high opinion of myself. "But of Him you are in Christ Jesus," the Bible says, "who became for us wisdom from God--and righteousness and sanctification and redemption--that, as it is written, 'He who glories, let him glory in the LORD'" (1 Cor. 1:30-31).

Sister, know that God alone can open the eyes of the blind; He alone can rescue your father. Let your witness be not in the wisdom of men, but with a demonstration of the Spirit and of power. I love this quote by Martha Ravenhill below!

Bear patiently with your dad; give your burdens onto Jesus! Our God answers prayer; He is mighty to save--do you believe this? Then cry out to Him!

In Christ,
Slavyan

R
ReviveUsLord May 31, 2007

Thank you Ron and Slavyan for joining me in prayer for my dad and me.

Brother Ron, yes I would say that my father is a stubborn person. In fact he has some pride that he thinks that something (God) has always led him in life to the right things. He acknowledges that he has sinned, but this was just because he didn't know better at the time. And so God has shown him over time better way, the first step was in the Protestant church, and now he is even a step further with the JWs. And he is so stubbornly sure that he is right, that he was always right concerning the major decisions in life and his pride does not allow to hear anything that would undermine his convictions concerning the JWs and he gives all sorts of responses in his defence.

On one hand he tries dilligently to learn JWs doctrine and he even tries teaching us; but on the other hand when I keep telling him that the Watchtower Society is a false prophet and their doctrines keep on changing and that many people have died due to their doctrines, he simplifies his faith to:
1.Belief that God exists and has created everything, and has given us the Bible to teach us how to live on this earth.
2.The Bible is God's word but is not really to be exactly literally taken because everybody interprets it differently, so we need not be 'fanatic' about it. (He says that I am fanatic as I try to explain everything with the Bible).
3.The most important for us as people is to live, to make most of this life that God has given us, to develop our talents etc.
He sees JW doctrine as closest to his beliefs, that they have clear and logical way or living, but he doesn't mean to blindly follow just anything they say and command (conc.taking blood, and other similar issues)
When I hear this I really cannot understand how he can fit God or better say Christ, into his views...

I can in a way understand his dissapointment in the church in general, it is in a way the dissapointment of the modern church which is trully a shame to God (though it's not the only reason). But this dissapointment has led me to seek God all the more and to ask God to make me a broken vessel that His glory can shine through; whereas it has led him into total anti-Christ teaching. But I have been encouraged from reading and hearing about the lives of godly men whom God has used to change this miserable state, whereas he doesn't see anything beyond the misery.

I really think more than ever that I need to be the vessel so empty of self, that the beautiful person of Jesus can shine through me! I have so often hindered Jesus! I want to live a life that will convict people of sin and will draw them to Christ. Oh God, bring the breaking..
My father is often bringing me into guilt trips by accusing me for various things and I really need to discern whether he speaks because of his self-centered views or I am really not Christ-like in that certain point.

Brothers, thank you for your clarification of the Hebrews verses, and today I also read some commentaries one these verses that encouraged me also to keep praying.
Brother Slavyan thank you for sharing your experience! It's really humbling and encouraging also! God has been very patient and loving with me and I need to be the same with my dad. It is by His grace that He can open the eyes of my father! Thank you for your kind and encouraging words!

Brother Julian thank you for the suggested book, it really sounds good. I am afraid that the shipping costs for Macedonia are more than the cost of the book and that I might not be able to purchase it. But I think that there are many internet resources that I still haven't exploited and I will try them first.

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Eph 3:21 Unto him [be] glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Your sister in Jesus,
Milica

sermonindex Jun 1, 2007

Tears_of_joy said

Am I dangerous to his kingdom? Or he is laughing at me?

Are we pulling down his strongholds and destroy his plans?

Isn't the Creator of the heavens and the earth, the Almighty God with us?

Oh, to humble us more and make us nothing so we may be used for His glory!

Yeah, it's ridiculous for us to assume anything we say or do can impede His glorious kingdom. He's controlled the world from before the beginning of time, His Kingdom reigns from eternity to eternity, and neither He nor the Kingdom is going anywhere.

Sure, times are more perilous than ever - but Jesus has gifted His elect with the Holy Spirit for knowledge, power, and discernment. The worse times become, the more grace, mercy, and power our Lord bestows upon us - and the greater His victory!

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect." (MATT 24)

"...[b]if[/b] it were possible..."

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