A question for the Brothers and Sisters

Hi everyone,

I have recently been having a discussion about the [i]possibility[/i] of living in such a state where in the struggle against sin, we come to a place where we no longer [i]choose[/i] to sin. My key verse is 1 Cor. 10:13 where Paul says,

"No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make a way of escape, that you may be able to bear it."

I received these objections:

I agree that Living a sinless life is a command to us as believers, but it does not follow that It is possible to "sin no more." God gives us commands that are impossible for us to obey. For instance, Acts 17:30 says "God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,", but John 1:13 says (speaking of the children of God) "who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." And Romans 8:7-8 says "because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God". Obviously, repenting of ones sins would be pleasing to God. But since no one who is in the flesh can please God, it follows that no one who is in the flesh can repent. Therefore it is impossible for anyone to obey the call to repent unless God intervenes and causes him to be born again. Or I guess you could say that the people who obey the call to repent, obey because God caused them to.

and

I agree that we cannot live sin-proof lives, but I disagree that the fall is the reason for this. Clearly, living before the fall did not prevent Adam from sinning. In fact, the fall is a result of Adam, who was created without a sin nature. It just occurred to me that if Adam could not live sinlessly (and he didn't have a sin nature - at first), what chance do we have?

Can anyone give me any handle on this?
Thank you in advance.
Brad.

Can the Christ in you live a sinless life?

Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 1 John 3:9

Therefore if the Spirit of Christ live in us then in the Spirit we cannot sin for "He cannot sin", and His Seed remaineth in us.

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

His Seed is born again in us, which is the Word of God, who is Jesus Christ Himself.

1 Peter 1:22-23 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The Word is Jesus Christ who is birthed in us and does not sin.

John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Now in Him is life by Him that is born again in us.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

We live by the Faith of the Spirit of Christ that is now our life and He does not sin.

There are sins of the flesh but not of the Spirit. If we sin in the flesh we have an advocate with the Father.

1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

These are not sins of the Spirit of Christ that is now our life and who we truly are, that is in Christ and He in us.

Colossians 1:26-28 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Amen, In Christ: Phillip

Thanks Phillip,
But that doesn't really address the objections :-(

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, Today, after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Unbelief is the sin of christianity. No matter what the specific sin is it all comes down to one single sin reality, unbelief. It must be noted that this whole passage was written to sheep who had the capacity to hear the voice of God (specifically the voice of a shepard) and mix the gospel with faith. Hear, respond in obedience and rest in all the provision and grace/mercy of the great shepard of thier/our soul. To answer your question , yes I do believe we can come to that place of resting in God consistantly choosing God and overcoming every sinful inclination or bent in our disposition.

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Who is doing the conforming? John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Who is renewing our mind? John 16:13-14 Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for He shall receive of Mine, and shall shew it unto you.

What is the Holy Spirit renewing our mind to?
1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

As I said before through the Spirit of Christ that is birthed in us, we serve the Law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Christ cannot sin and by the Christ in us we cannot sin in the Spirit, then if we sin in the flesh we have the Advocate with the Father Jesus Christ and by confession we will be cleansed from all unrighteousness of the flesh. Amen

Our minds are being renewed to the Mind of Christ and the process takes time and the Faith of God in us to believe that this process is happening. Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

This mystery of Christ in you is what is fulfilling the Word of God in Christ Jesus. This mystery is what is presenting every man perfect in Christ Jesus.

How are we judged then?
mRom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

What is Paul's gospel. It is the mystery of Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

We died to sin on the Cross with Christ and it is no longer we that live but the Christ that is in us and by His Faith we now live.

How can we not be perfect before God and our lives being conformed to the life and Mind of Christ. We are perfect in the Spirit and we are being made perfect in our minds to His mind and will be made perfect in the flesh on the day of resurrection.

2 Corinthians 1:9-10 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

Question? Who delivered us, who is delivering us and who will yet deliver us? Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin

Perfect in Spirit, no sin. In the flesh being made perfect, if sin is present, the advocate by confession will bring all righteousness into play in the life of the believer. Christ has been made our righteousness in us.
1 Corinthians 1:30-31 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

In Christ's Life: Phillip

BradW wrote:
Hi everyone,

I have recently been having a discussion about the [i]possibility[/i] of living in such a state where in the struggle against sin, we come to a place where we no longer [i]choose[/i] to sin. My key verse is 1 Cor. 10:13 where Paul says,

"No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make a way of escape, that you may be able to bear it."

Can anyone give me any handle on this?
Thank you in advance.
Brad.

Brad,

I'm not going to throw verses at you...this is more a question about what we will choose to do, and our ability to do it.

We have a sin nature that sins even when we do not want it to.

However, the more I practice not sinning, the easier it gets to not repeat the sins. And the older I get, the less the flesh presses me to sin. Yet I still sin.

The pride of life does not die until life does, and ordinary pride and spiritual pride are deceptively laid as traps by the devil, and the Lord allows it, so that we can learn to conquer our faults more and more. And then there are our personal faults to overcome.

But in the end, we are tied to that body of sin, and have a mind that is not truly holy.

We will and do choose to sin less. We choose not to think of sinful things, and have practice in not sinning.

But until we are changed, and made incorruptible, glorified in our new bodies we will sin, and they might be some really bad ones, despite age and practice, for we are so human!

Adam's fall put us into sin mode; Belief in Jesus give's us His righteousness, but until we are made as He is, and are with Him, we will sin.

I just pray that it will be less and less as time passes, and that Jesus will come soon.

Blessings,

Forrest

But that doesn't really address the objections

Unfortunately, I did not find the objections were very clearly stated. For example . . .

I agree that Living a sinless life is a command to us as believers, but it does not follow that It is possible to "sin no more." God gives us commands that are impossible for us to obey.

Well, we must be honest before God. This above statement is a lie, a flat out lie. It says that God does not expect us to obey him and he gives us commandments he knows we cannot keep and so God is commanding disobedience, whereas the New Testament holds forth obedience as something real, beautiful, and part of the everyday walk of the Christian.

This matter is very simple, where you speak of choosing to sin. A Christian never needs to choose to sin. Not if the Holy Ghost is alive inside of him. :-)

UniqueWebRev said:

We have a sin nature that sins even when we do not want it to.

True. But this is also where I find fault. If we are truly saved, aren't we given a new nature? Made a new creation in Christ?

If sin is the result of giving in to temptation, the fulfillment of the lust of the flesh (nature), my Lord says that He will not tempt us beyond what we are able to bear, but will provide an escape.

Why do I continue to sin? A number of reasons: perhaps I'm blind to the escapes that God provides out of temptation; or I'm not completely surrendered to Christ; or am deliberately choosing to fulfill the lust so that I can get the "pleasure" that comes from fulfilling lusts; or just plain disobedience.

If it is a sin for me to live, (ie. being in the flesh) then that is saying that it is God's will that I sin because I am still alive. If it's not His will, shouldn't He just cause me to die?? Or give me the power to overcome sin? ;-)

and have a mind that is not truly holy

Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy - meditate on these things.

I am fully convinced that if we were to really follow in Christ's footsteps as we ought to, we, by the power of the Holy Spirit, could walk in complete victory over sin in our lives. Like Ravenhill has said, why would God save us so that we would continue running into walls?

Are we not made more than conquerors? If I am given in to sin, overcome by temptation, I am not an overcomer in that thing and the Word becomes a lie.

But I trust in a Word that says that my Lord will provide a way of escape from ALL temptation. A Word that says that He Himself will sanctify me [i]completely[/i]; and preserve my [b]whole spirit, soul, and body[/b] blameless [b]at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ[/b]

The problem is that I first need to completely die to myself and live a life that is wholly for Christ and nothing for me. That is the hardest part, putting to death myself so that it is honestly not I who live, but Christ in me.

Blessings,
Brad.

True. But this is also where I find fault. If we are truly saved, aren't we given a new nature? Made a new creation in Christ?

This is why not everyone believes that Christians have a "dual nature." Some believe that the old man really is dead and that means he isn't still alive in side of you somewhere.

You don't have to have a "sin nature" to be tempted or to sin.