hulsey
Jun 5, 2007
"I am convinced that America has been abandoned by God." ~John MaCarthur~
[url=http://listen.family.org/daily/A000000496.cfm]A Nation Abandoned By God
"I am convinced that America has been abandoned by God." ~John MaCarthur~
[url=http://listen.family.org/daily/A000000496.cfm]A Nation Abandoned By God
I'm convinced that the gentiles have been cut off, not just America. 911 was when the head of the flower was cut off the stem and now were in the dying process. Were in the eight minutes that it takes the light from the sun to get to the earth. If the sun were to burn out you would'nt know it for eight minutes. We are where Israel was right before the time Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. It's all over we just don't know it yet. The time of the gentiles is over, weve been cut off.
hulsey wrote:
"I am convinced that America has been abandoned by God." ~John MaCarthur~
[url=http://listen.family.org/daily/A000000496.cfm]A Nation Abandoned By God[/url] was preached by John MaCarthur last month during the National Day of Prayer in Colorado. This is the first part of a stunning message that Focus on the Family broadcast today. If you follow the links you can download the broadcast for free.
Honestly dear brothers I think the way we infer natonal relationship in a disposition given more for personal relationship can be confusing. Were we Americans ever comparable to Israel in God's scheme? To add to this confusion, many sincere prophets today also compare the United States to Rome, and others say we are Babylon.
And if we are comparable to Israel, why must we be at the fall of Jersualem at the hands of Romans? Why can't we be near the deliverance of Israel from the hands of the Assyrians? Hezekiah had more reason to expect annialation then we do today...and yet God heard his prayers.
Are we so sure God won't hear our prayers? Is there any prophet here today bold enough to assure us that all our prayers for revival are useless? If so then why meet in October?
With all repect for Dobson and Macarthur, who I greatly respect, let's be careful to not allow our own exasperation to eclipse God's unfailing love and wonderful deeds. It is not for us to declare the 'gentiles are cut off.'
It is for us to pray brethren. Repentence among the gentiles, and even among the Jews, is possible with God.
Blessings,
MC
Concerning this subject I have not ever felt that we are too late to avoid judgement but the time is extremely short. A mass sence of urgency he has given me! Yet I am just a man and this is just the interpitation of what he has said!
Are we so sure God won't hear our prayers? Is there any prophet here today bold enough to assure us that all our prayers for revival are useless? If so then why meet in October?With all respect for Dobson and Macarthur, who I greatly respect, let's be careful to not allow our own exasperation to eclipse God's unfailing love and wonderful deeds. It is not for us to declare the 'gentiles are cut off.'
Amen MC!
No one is deluded into believing we are not in some serious trouble here on these shores, but these are not the only shores ... I am just as well exasperated at hearing one way or the other these pronouncements of finality ... we are falling for certain, headlong into what I tremble to think at this rate ... you know what I fear? That this like so many other things gets taken completely the wrong way and lumped into yet another catagory...
What it amounts to is [i]it's coming, it's coming, it's coming[i]over[i]hear
My, I am a bit fired up this evening, not angry just ... I don't know what it is. I was deeply grieved greatly yesterday catching a glimpse again of some program 'Degrassi'? is it? And seeing [i]children
I feel Mike has summed up for many of us, the current state of affairs both in our nation and in our own lives. Namely, there are days when we feel there is no hope at all, indeed days of such frustration that we would bring down the economy or nuclear holocaust ourselves if we had the power...and then there are days when we see causes for great hope that the light has not been fully extinguished here in America.
It might be healthy to be mindful that God still sends help, from small [url=http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070528/NEWS/705280338/1001/LIFE]individual
For instance, in the past few years I have been impressed that the brief 150 year unquestioned metaphysical autocracy of Darwinism is coming under increasingly forceful criticism in what could emerge as a 21st century 'protestant' reformation among enlightened people. Imagine a civilization in 50 years free from the state-supported materialistic philosophy of natural selection that corrodes even many Christian's faith in God...20 years ago it was too much to hope for, but it is happening right now and I believe it is a sign that the land is not completely deserted by God. The endarkenment of Darwinism was a judgement of God on western civilization, a snuffing of His light, as I understand Romans 1. That this willful ignorance is under siege today from many quarters is perhaps a small sign that God has not completely forgotten us in His anger.
There are others examples of God's help in our lives. I'm sure we could fill this forum's bandwithd just on the topic of God's help alone! Spiritual, and physical testimonies would abound if we would simply frame the question properly.
It is why we still hope for revival. Even if and when a measure of God's judgement is given to us, we have seen his mercy also. Like many here, I could detail mournfully how the Lord has disciplined me for my rebellion, and for my lukewarm inattentiveness to Himself. Even now, my friends who knew me still try to coax out of me some sign of self pity to accompany what they saw in my life. I defy them with a smile, because the theme of my life is not abandonment as I so deserved, but of redemption, which was given not solely according to any great repentence on my part, but according to God's great love. Knowing this, and humbly remembering my former prideful sensual state, how can I pronounce, or even consent to a declaration of abandonment upon others?
Still, the spirit of my post below was not without empathy for the feelings expressed, but I want to encourage! (And to be encouraged!) We must be made of sterner stuff then to throw in the towel. Our eschatology should not become a prison of fatalism that restricts faith and love. It is appointed once for each of us to die...untill that appointment there is always prayer.
As encouragement I would like to share some words from Isaiah 43, not as a timely or specific 'prophetic word', but simply as a reminder of one aspect of our Savior's character.
Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.The beast of the field shall honor me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen. This people have I formed for myself; they shall show forth my praise.
...and as a reminder or our own character at times...
But thou hast not called upon me, O Jacob; but thou hast been weary of me, O Israel.
Blessings dear brethren,
MC
I am convinced that America has been abandoned by God.
Does God abandon nations or do they abandon Him? Both maybe, but I don't know; Even when He gives a people over to their lusts, I believe it is with redemptive purposes in mind.
I do know that He will never forsake His children...
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, [i]I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
We are perplexed but not in despair, watch and pray.
In Christ,
Ron
InTheLight wrote: We are perplexed but not in despair, watch and pray.
And he spoke a parable unto them to this end that men ought always to pray and not to faint; Saying, There was in a city a judge which feared not God, neither regarded man: And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh will he find faith on the earth?
Luke 18:1-8
[url=http://www.oneplace.com/Ministries/Focus_on_the_Family/Default.asp]Part 2 of the message is now up.[i]rest
Good messages. Thanks for pointing them out, Jeremy.
Good messages. Thanks for pointing them out, Jeremy.
What a sad fact that the major immoral trends that are happening in our nations are proof from scripture that God is abandoning us to our "reprobate" minds.
True. I also appreciate how Macarthur biblicaly defined the nature of "abandonment." What a terrifying thought to be able to say, "God speaks to me no more." I couldn't live with that.
Quote Crrssck:
What it amounts to is it's coming, it's coming, it's coming, 'it's over' well the fact of the matter is that it is not yet come. Does that necessitate that we ought to 'tone it down a bit'? Absolutely not! In fact we ought to rally and rail at sin like never before, it is not all ineffectual, think there is enough of a ... solidarity effort ... here and many other places where the saints recognize the times they are living in and that souls will indeed hear what needs to be heard, to be cut to the very heart and core of their being. But if there is anything I am convinced of it is the need for God to rend the heavens and come down, break up this atmosphere with His presence, Oh He must! I full well understand MacArthur's heart presumptuously without hearing his specific message here. That is to say that I would likely agree that the Lord seemingly has cast us off because of where we are, but the true matter at hand is ... Has He indeed? Then what in the world is he or SI doing? Maybe I am jumping the gun here a bit not hearing what he has to say but I do hold John MacArthur with the utmost respect, he turned me around greatly when I was knee deep in error but beyond that he is a man of conviction and fortitude.
Only using your quote as the opposing viewpoint, but also because I agree with parts of it ... and I prefer to always agree where we can agree. I like it that way.
I don't listen to other people's forecasts, or prophecies, or "words from the lord" or read books on eschatology or any of this stuff ... but what I know The Lord has called me to do for 30 years is Know His Word in it's entirety/contextually and also "know the times" by having my eyes everywhere around the globe at the same time when it comes to eschatology.
The only way that we can say "where we are" in this world/time/timeline is to know every Prophecy in HIS Word and to also know exactly what is going on around the entire globe at this very moment.
If in fact, we are in "those days" - then no amount of praying it away will do anything - and we'd be fighting GOD Himself if we think we can get HIM to change a whole Bible worth of Prophecy about His timeline and His timing.
Once His countdown clock starts ticking ... there's a specific amount of time and events that will take place, regardless of us wanting it not to come.
If you could see Both --- Every Scripture pertaining to "those days" and the world events as a whole - you'd see a Chess board already set up and playing out just as HE said.
It IS here. Not "coming".
We have to be careful to not be like those prophets also who said "Peace, Peace" when there will be no peace. Not a few times HE mentions when they cry "Peace, Peace" and in the case of "those days" - their want for 'more time' of Peace becomes a snare onto them, because "By Peace he will destroy many", meaning the antichrist, when he and also his system comes to save the day. Many "Christians" will not recognize who "he" is because their eyes are only on "more time".
Now, here's where we are in agreement, whole-heartedly ...
Does that necessitate that we ought to 'tone it down a bit'? Absolutely not! In fact we ought to rally and rail at sin like never before, it is not all ineffectual, think there is enough of a ... solidarity effort ... here and many other places where the saints recognize the times they are living in and that souls will indeed hear what needs to be heard, to be cut to the very heart and core of their being.
HE said, "Occupy till I COME."
The Overcomers are very busy people :-D .
SermonIndex will stay as a light on a hill until the powers that be over-haul the Internet and make this stuff even more illegal than it is now.
I said, "as it is now", because there are already laws in the books and on the table that are already against us & our expressing Biblical beliefs. (And by the way - you shouldn't be watching TV anyways - HA !)
Whether you believe it isn't here or not, makes no difference between us in that we do agree - we are "to work while it is yet day/light, for the darkness/night is coming when no man can work".
We agree this will/may some day cost us our lives, unless HE has us in mind to be in that number who are Resurrected when HE comes. Rev. 20:4-6.
The overcomers are known for their lack of "fear". "All the fearful and unbelieving will have their part in the .... "
And I do believe it was you Mike that said, that when Jesus returns "will HE find faith ?"
We now must be like the very First Church. Most were killed and it was illegal to "speak The Name", yet they kept on keeping on.
Doesn't matter who you feel "Babylon" is in this conversation at all ... "it all" is still going to come down as HE said. And this nation plays a very large part in Biblical Prophecy.
How could it not ? - seeing that we've run the world basically for how many years now ? We're the super-power now for how long ? What is the International language ? Where does most of our days technology come from ? Who exports the most pornography ? Who makes the most Movies & ones that portray Christ as many horrible things and Christians are the really jerky ones )according to Ted Turner and Hollywood/Television as a whole) and so on and so on.
How could such a major player in world events, past and present NOT be in the Bible ? Especially in how we are supposedly Israel's alli {however ya spell that}. In that we were also there for it's inception as a Nation, etc. etc..
No matter "where" we are on the time-table, we need to not fear and be what Christ called us to be. Victorious unto death. Loving neither this present world, nor the THINGS in it, nor our own lives.
By His Word, exposing darkness and preaching The Light.
Bless you and you all.
(not teaching here - just "sharing" - HA)
Love.
Annie
And no offense: but Dobson talks outta both sides of his mouth. Yeah, I listen to a lot.
Perhaps listening to the rest of the message will help.
Thanks much Husley.
The ending of this two-parter is so spot-on (in my limited understanding of scripture and my experience with the Lord) that I am inspired to download it for mp3 archive. His brief but vital discussion of Psalm 81 is exactly the reason I am personally filled with great anticipation for the SI conference. In my small local sphere there are flames of revival among Christians, and newness of faith for obedient living. Theology that was once cycnical head knowledge now brings tears of conviction and joy of possession. It is not widespread but it is holding. As such I am abit sensitive about proclaiming the demise of the Church a fait accompli.
Now the American Church landscape is by and large a darkened valley of dry bones. From coast to coast stretches hills of empty skulls too numerous to count; but there is the breath of God to add to the tally.
As Macarthur discussed Psalm 81,
O that my people would listen to me...Right there folks is your mandate to pray.... Pray for the living Word of God to be proclaimed across this nation...
That's not going to happen if there is a famine of the hearing of the Word of God.
Pray that the Word, will have free course, that it would run with all it's power across this land...and that people would hear, and believe, and be saved, and be obedient." We may discuss shades of meaning in the word 'abandonment', but the bottom line is that MacAuthur does not at all feel we are beyond prayer. In fact he allows for the possibility that the American Church might be the "greatest recovery story in history". Indeed, prophesy to these dead bones...
If our eschatology prevents us from praying for revival then may I offer the friendly suggestion that our caboose is on the wrong end of the train. For this reason I appreciate Macarthur's tender honesty regarding Psalm 81. I don't know what God's plan is, I just see here what His heart is. O' that my people would listen to me. That is the heart of God.
Amen. Not wanting at all to insist or condradict, only to register what I believe is still possible.
MC
If our eschatology prevents us from praying for revival then may I offer the friendly suggestion that our caboose is on the wrong end of the train. For this reason I appreciate Macarthur's tender honesty regarding Psalm 81. I don't know what God's plan is, I just see here what His heart is. O' that my people would listen to me. That is the heart of God.Amen. Not wanting at all to insist or condradict, only to register what I believe is still possible.
A thousand Amens to that last post Compton. I think if we really listen to the heart of what MaCarthur is saying we will realize that now is not only not a time for despair, but this is the hour of our greatest oppurtunity to BOLDLY preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
2Co 2:14 NASB But thanks be to God, [b]who always leads us in triumph in Christ
hulsey wrote:
"I am convinced that America has been abandoned by God." ~John MaCarthur~
[url=http://listen.family.org/daily/A000000496.cfm]A Nation Abandoned By God[/url] was preached by John MaCarthur last month during the National Day of Prayer in Colorado. This is the first part of a stunning message that Focus on the Family broadcast today. If you follow the links you can download the broadcast for free.
This was the top message that Focus on the Family aired in 2007. They are re-airing it today and tomorrow, http://listen.family.org/daily/A000000496.cfm
If you didn't hear it last year, I recommend taking the time to listen to it this time.
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